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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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 Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:26 am Post subject: football hooliganism in the uk - will it never end? |
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The bbc posted an article addressing the issues of hooliganism in the UK. Althôugh a lot of Millwall fans had been issued with a ten year ban back in 2002, it seems they may not have been purturbed from partaking in the activiities.
Even with a heavy police presence and a co-ordinated attempt to prevent any scullduggery, Millwall fans still managed to distrupt the game. Calls are being made for the FA and police to take some responsibility for this however.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22158585
(there you go steelrails - fill your boots mate). |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:49 am Post subject: |
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Clearly bad culture. The people who do things must be little more than glorified peasants in track suits and jeans. This is shameful behavior that seems to be a continual problem. They may have 1st world technology and banking over there, but seems much of them are still in the 3rd world. Back here in Korea that kind of stuff would never happen. And yet these barbarians have the nerve to look down on me.
OR
We could say that if you go to any country, including say Korea, you can probably find some situation where a spectator event has a tendency towards observer violence. We could also look into the historical reasons for such a phenomenon. We could also point out the wonderful things the British do, the fact that such behavior is not wholly representative, and we could suppose that a person writing stuff such as that above, is more looking to put the British down than actually caring about the problem and is probably covering for their own perceived inadequacies.
However, I think violence and destruction are a lot more severe than spitting on the sidewalk and taking photos of yourself.
Now multiply this with dozens of more posts about how British people are stupid and primitive, from multiple posters who excuse it as just "venting" and you can maybe see why you might turn into a British apologist. |
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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| Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Clearly bad culture. The people who do things must be little more than glorified peasants in track suits and jeans. This is shameful behavior that seems to be a continual problem. They may have 1st world technology and banking over there, but seems much of them are still in the 3rd world. Back here in Korea that kind of stuff would never happen. And yet these barbarians have the nerve to look down on me.
OR
We could say that if you go to any country, including say Korea, you can probably find some situation where a spectator event has a tendency towards observer violence. We could also look into the historical reasons for such a phenomenon. We could also point out the wonderful things the British do, the fact that such behavior is not wholly representative, and we could suppose that a person writing stuff such as that above, is more looking to put the British down than actually caring about the problem and is probably covering for their own perceived inadequacies.
However, I think violence and destruction are a lot more severe than spitting on the sidewalk and taking photos of yourself.l
Now multiply this with dozens of more posts about how British people are stupid and primitive, from multiple posters who excuse it as just "venting" and you can maybe see why you might turn into a British apologist. |
Firstly, I dont think any rational human being could possibly condone this kind of behaviour. Behaviour that is not accepted by humanity (both inside and outside of the culture it exists in), is generally what would be considered 'anti-social'. I think you would find it difficult to find a person that could argue that hooliganism is a soicable past time.
There are many hundreds of thousands of people that view footballing, sports events each week in the united kingdom, that feel threatened by, and are against hooliganism as it distrupts the atmosphere of the game. A majority of the same people, have probably never been in a fight since they graduated from middle or elementary school.
For this reason, it has been addressed as an issue to dealt with and not ignored.
If you want to break down the causes for hooliganism, you would have to look at the culture as a whole. Many of the people who partake in violent acts, have been themselves victims of violent behavoiur or have learned this behaviour at school, in social circles as an adult or as peer pressure and a need to fit in, a need to release stress and pent up aggression due to social oppression and financial pressures. The causes are many.
The fact is, it is so multi faccetted, that it would be impossible to address the casuses without writing a dissertation on the subject. Something that I am not prepared to do at this juncture.
It would however, be very unfair to paint a picure of the culture of the United Kingdom as one of people who either a/ partake in football hooliganism, or b/ people who actively support it by choosing not to address it as an issue. Which seems to be your point.
As for your point about people being barbarians, again this is slightly unfair. While the united kingdom has been a developed nation for quite some time, there has always been a massive divide in wealth, life quality and education. Somthing which has recently been labelled 'the class system'. Poverty, is a relative term. And although comparitivley people are more comfortable (with a national health service, government welfare and housing, access to public libraries, clean water etc. ) in the united kingdom compared to say, Bolivia, there are still alot of people that are living in relative poverty. These people are very aware that being in the area classed as 'working class', their oportunities are limited. Becoming more so as university fees are being cut and your history being a black mark on a resume.
Therefore, labelling them 'barbaric' is akin to labelling any person born into a dissadvantage as a barbarian. Something which I would argue is barbaric in itself.
One final point. Comparing the two nations of ROK and UK, violence is socially unacceptable in probably all situations, becoming more so with each passing year in the UK. In the rebublic of korea, physical violence is not taught as an antisocial method of resolving confilct. One only has to watch two boys doing taekwondo kicks in the class room becasue someone took his earaser to see this. In the UK, you would be usually expelled or suspended from school for this behaviour.
In conclusion, I would like to say that if you were to count daily acts of violence in the united kingdom compared to South Korea, Korea would win hands down. However, its just conjecture as I have no more opportunity to prove this as you do to disprove it.
Peace
Last edited by le-paul on Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Clearly bad culture. The people who do things must be little more than glorified peasants in track suits and jeans. This is shameful behavior that seems to be a continual problem. They may have 1st world technology and banking over there, but seems much of them are still in the 3rd world. Back here in Korea that kind of stuff would never happen. And yet these barbarians have the nerve to look down on me.
OR
We could say that if you go to any country, including say Korea, you can probably find some situation where a spectator event has a tendency towards observer violence. We could also look into the historical reasons for such a phenomenon. We could also point out the wonderful things the British do, the fact that such behavior is not wholly representative, and we could suppose that a person writing stuff such as that above, is more looking to put the
British down than actually caring about the problem and is probably covering for their own perceived inadequacies.
However, I think violence and destruction are a lot more severe than spitting on the sidewalk and taking photos of yourself.
Now multiply this with dozens of more posts about how British people are stupid and primitive, from multiple posters who excuse it as just "venting" and you can maybe see why you might turn into a British apologist. |
Please stop drawing comparisons with spitting/ eating loudly etc and football
hooliganism, they just don't match. Hooliganism is a crime punishable by law and carried out by a very small percentage of the population. The Korean things people are mentioning are cultural norms experienced on a daily basis.
A fairer point would be to compare police presence at English football matches with the riot police who line the pavements in Gwangwhamum every time there's a protest.
I'm with you on the constant references by posters on here to Koreans spitting puking etc... They're tiresome and exaggerated. But your football comparison is fast becoming just as irritating. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
I'm with you on the constant references by posters on here to Koreans spitting puking etc... They're tiresome and exaggerated. But your football comparison is fast becoming just as irritating. |
It is getting played out now. There are so many other ways to have a go at us without resorting to that lazy cliche. Here, I'll give you a hand:
Q: What's the difference between Princess Diana and Elton John?
A: Princess Diana never became a queen of England
Q: Why aren't the England football team allowed to own a dog?
A: Because they can't hold on to a lead.
Q: Why do the English make better lovers than the Germans?
A: Because English are the only one's who can stay on top for 45 minutes and still come second.
Q: Did you hear about the winner of the English beauty contest?
A: Me neither.
Q: Whats the difference between Cinderella and the England football team? A: Cinderella wanted to get to the ball
Q: Why wasn't Jesus born in England? A:
He couldn't find 3 wise men or a virgin.
source: http://www.jokes4us.com/miscellaneousjokes/worldjokes/englandjokes.html |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:59 am Post subject: |
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Its boredom. British life is essentially dull. Even on a national level the country has no direction nor guiding light.
They used to have exciting wars every generation. Now they just cram millions of testosterone-pumped idle young men into a tedious existence of watching corrie and collecting the dole, where they can't even go down the pub anymore because its too expensive, and who have little real identity apart from a regional accent and football team, and no morality apart from a vacuous secular hedonism...and hello this is the result. |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
tedious existence of watching corrie and collecting the dole  |
Hey let's all go teach in Thailand.
When I was teaching at this one school in Thailand. All the British were grouped together in the only teaching lounge at the school. I was the only non- British person who tolerated being in the room except for one New Zealander. There was a British restaurant that served Kidney pies etc sort of close. There was one guy who would go order and pick them up for the Brits, none of us non-Brits where even asked out of courtesy. Racists, Louts, arrogant anti-Americans, they were just Bad Apples. |
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Clearly bad culture. The people who do things must be little more than glorified peasants in track suits and jeans. This is shameful behavior that seems to be a continual problem. They may have 1st world technology and banking over there, but seems much of them are still in the 3rd world. Back here in Korea that kind of stuff would never happen. And yet these barbarians have the nerve to look down on me.
OR
We could say that if you go to any country, including say Korea, you can probably find some situation where a spectator event has a tendency towards observer violence. We could also look into the historical reasons for such a phenomenon. We could also point out the wonderful things the British do, the fact that such behavior is not wholly representative, and we could suppose that a person writing stuff such as that above, is more looking to put the British down than actually caring about the problem and is probably covering for their own perceived inadequacies.
However, I think violence and destruction are a lot more severe than spitting on the sidewalk and taking photos of yourself.
Now multiply this with dozens of more posts about how British people are stupid and primitive, from multiple posters who excuse it as just "venting" and you can maybe see why you might turn into a British apologist. |
Not one Brit has ever said "Hooliganism is part of UK culture. You must understand our very special culture."
Brits know football hooliganism is wrong and it is roundly condemned by the nation as a whole. Attempts are being made to stop it and deal with the problem, rather than excuses and attempts to justify it.
If Korea tried to stop and deal with their problems maybe there wouldn't be as many people complaining about it on this site.
A bad culture shouldn't be judged on it's flaws. Instead it should be judged on its attempts to address and eradicate these flaws. That's why your post is a steaming pile of horse shit. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| young_clinton wrote: |
| none of us non-Brits where even asked out of courtesy. Racists, Louts, arrogant anti-Americans, they were just Bad Apples. |
They still have the arrogance of the empire but have lost its brain power.
When koreans refer to english men as "gentlemen" I always think, wow I hope you never go there and find out the truth lol. |
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| They still have the arrogance of the empire but have lost its brain power. |
Do "they" include the Scottish and Welsh? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| Not one Brit has ever said "Hooliganism is part of UK culture. You must understand our very special culture." |
I think the posts above are a drawn out "British culture is special, please try to understand."
If a Korean were asked to give their ideas in Korean, rather than English, they would likely give a more detailed reply.
I'm just hoping that maybe people can see that a lot of "apologist" tactics or things they get frustrated at with Koreans for, might occur themselves when things are turned around.
| Quote: |
| If Korea tried to stop and deal with their problems maybe there wouldn't be as many people complaining about it on this site. |
Looking at the past 50 years of Korean history, do you think this culture hasn't tried to seriously tackle many social issues?
Just as Britain can't seem to get a handle on those gangs of young men who make neighborhoods unsafe at night, Korea hasn't gotten a handle on traffic or spitting.
Besides, I'd take Korean indifference to spitting to having to devote massive public resources to prevent groups of fans attacking each other and endangering lives. Which is worse? A spitting problem that isn't addressed or a fan violence problem that has to be addressed?
Don't you get it? Something like fan violence is so barbaric it should never start in the first place in an allegedly "civilized" nation. I guess some might say British people are barbarians in suits.
Oh and BTW, did you notice how at tonight's Korea-Japan soccer match, a police line separating the Japanese fans and protecting them was completely unnecessary? Where were the mobs of Koreans and Japanese brawling and attacking people for wearing opposing colors? Nothing approaching the barbarism of a British football event.
Sorry your country can't behave in a civilized fashion when it comes to watching sports. Maybe your culture should copy Korean culture and join the developed world in being able to behave like an adult at a sporting match.
Yeah, words like that are really over the line. Guess what? People post that kind of stuff about Koreans everyday on this forum. If they have a point, then the I have a point with the tripe I wrote above. I think what I wrote is tripe and same with the basher comments. But you can't condone the basher posts and then condemn a post like mine. If people are going to dish it out, take it.
=======================================
Now, I reject what I wrote above. It's wrong when people talk that way about Koreans and its wrong to talk that way about the British. There are proper ways to critique things in Britain and Korea, but posts like that aren't one of them, either way. |
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robbie_davies
Joined: 16 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Not one Brit has ever said "Hooliganism is part of UK culture. You must understand our very special culture." |
I think the posts above are a drawn out "British culture is special, please try to understand."
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No they aren't - no Brit will ever ask anyone else to 'understand' bad aspects of our culture - for which there are many.
In fact, we are the only ones out of the 'seven nations' who don't have our head permanently stuck up our arse, telling everyone how great we and our country are. Worst ones for that are the Americans and the Irish.  |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Quote:
Not one Brit has ever said "Hooliganism is part of UK culture. You must understand our very special culture."
I think the posts above are a drawn out "British culture is special, please try to understand."
If a Korean were asked to give their ideas in Korean, rather than English, they would likely give a more detailed reply.
I'm just hoping that maybe people can see that a lot of "apologist" tactics or things they get frustrated at with Koreans for, might occur themselves when things are turned around.
Quote:
If Korea tried to stop and deal with their problems maybe there wouldn't be as many people complaining about it on this site.
Looking at the past 50 years of Korean history, do you think this culture hasn't tried to seriously tackle many social issues?
Just as Britain can't seem to get a handle on those gangs of young men who make neighborhoods unsafe at night, Korea hasn't gotten a handle on traffic or spitting.
Besides, I'd take Korean indifference to spitting to having to devote massive public resources to prevent groups of fans attacking each other and endangering lives. Which is worse? A spitting problem that isn't addressed or a fan violence problem that has to be addressed?
Don't you get it? Something like fan violence is so barbaric it should never start in the first place in an allegedly "civilized" nation. I guess some might say British people are barbarians in suits.
Oh and BTW, did you notice how at tonight's Korea-Japan soccer match, a police line separating the Japanese fans and protecting them was completely unnecessary? Where were the mobs of Koreans and Japanese brawling and attacking people for wearing opposing colors? Nothing approaching the barbarism of a British football event.
Sorry your country can't behave in a civilized fashion when it comes to watching sports. Maybe your culture should copy Korean culture and join the developed world in being able to behave like an adult at a sporting match.
Yeah, words like that are really over the line. Guess what? People post that kind of stuff about Koreans everyday on this forum. If they have a point, then the I have a point with the tripe I wrote above. I think what I wrote is tripe and same with the basher comments. But you can't condone the basher posts and then condemn a post like mine. If people are going to dish it out, take it.
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Please stop drawing comparisons with spitting/ eating loudly etc and football hooliganism, they just don't match. Hooliganism is a crime punishable by law and carried out by a very small percentage of the population. The Korean things people are mentioning are cultural norms experienced on a daily basis. |
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fezmond
Joined: 27 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| A few naughty signs at the Korea v Japan match last night, they finally took them down at half time. |
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Squire
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| British yob culture is embarrassing and one of the reasons I consider staying away forever. It felt great getting away from it. I can handle myself but I'm far happier leaving the house knowing there's practically no chance I'll need to. |
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