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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Sun May 19, 2013 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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When American Bishops are freaking out about social justice and poverty the same way they're freaking out about contraception and abortion -- which is to say, both vigorously and continually condemning it in public using the language of religious morality, while simultaneously lobbying regarding it in private -- I'll feel the Pope has his house in order on this one. Until then, a speech is just a speech.
And make no mistake, despite not technically employing registered lobbyists, the Catholic Church does engage in lobbying:
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To answer that question, it's helpful to know who John Carr is. He isn't a bishop himself, but he runs the Bishops' Office of Justice, Peace and Human Development. And he isn't a registered lobbyist. But like a lot of other people who aren't registered lobbyists, he lobbies.
The Conference of Bishops said neither Carr nor anyone else would comment for this story.
But back in July, Carr did go on Catholic Radio Weekly, a news and information program from the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.
The interviewer asked Carr about a new papal encyclical on the importance of moral values.
Carr made this point: "We have a distinctive place in public debate. The church doesn't offer specific solutions. But if offers a moral framework, an ethical criteria," Carr said.
But a "specific solution" is exactly what critics say the Conference of Bishops demanded when it insisted on anti-abortion language in the health care overhaul bill. Clergy and staff were in the room with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi when she agreed to let Michigan Democrat Bart Stupak offer an anti-abortion amendment. The amendment was approved, 240-194.
Some pro-choice Democrats say they may vote against the entire bill if it comes back to the House from the Senate with the language intact.
But if the Conference of Bishops is a force to be reckoned with, it's not because it's one of those high-powered operations that hold fundraisers and retreats for members of Congress.
"Probably no more than a handful of people associated with the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops are actively involved, for example, in promoting legislation on Capitol Hill," says Stephen Schneck, a political scientist at Catholic University in Washington.
Schneck says the conference a few years ago had to cut its budget. He says, "One of the things that seems to be the result of this downsizing is a narrowing of their strongest efforts to life issues" � mainly, the controversies over abortion and stem-cell research. |
It should be no surprise, then, that the public image of the Catholic Church is largely one of griping about abortion, stem-cell research, contraception, and gays: the issues they chose to focus on when they had to choose. They've selected their political priorities, and the poor were not among them. If the Pope wants to realign those priorities to include vigorous defense of social justice within them -- not just quiet charity work in the background (charity work is great, but it's a band-aid, not a remedy), but a strong, society-wide or even world-wide push for compassionate economic reform -- it's going to take a lot more than a speech or two.
Something makes me think that they're going to stick with, "The church doesn't offer specific solutions. But if offers a moral framework, an ethical criteria," with the economic matters, though, which effectively means, "We're not going to seriously go to bat on it." Modern politicians waved bye-bye to "ethical criteria" a long time ago. They need specific guidance, which is why successful think tanks tend to just cut to the chase and write the bill/amendment/talking point for them. If the Church wants results on economic matters, it's going to have to do the same, but I doubt it will. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2013 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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The Papal pulpit is extremely powerful, it seemed to have swayed Merkel.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/05/18/merkel-and-pope-talk-about-a--strong-europe/2308757/
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Asked whether they had also talked about the pope's recent criticism, Merkel said they spoke about the regulation of the financial markets.
"The regulation of the financial markets is our central problem, our central task," Merkel told reporters on the Vatican grounds. "We are moving ahead, but we are not yet where we want to be, where we could say that a derailment of the guard rails of social market won't happen again."
Merkel added: "It ought to be like this: the economy is there to serve the people. In the last few years, this hasn't been the case at all everywhere." |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:07 am Post subject: The Pope will visit Brazil |
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Pope Francis has endorsed the Brazil protests in general terms and will address them in more particularity next week (July 22-26).
| John Thavis wrote: |
| This puts him back in the world spotlight, and I suspect we are going to hear a lot not just about the Brazilian situation, but the world situation, the divide between the rich and poor and the church’s social teaching. |
Meanwhile, a truce has arisen between the Vatican and the liberation theology movement.
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Barely a month after becoming pope, Francis took a symbolically important step that liberation theologians here and elsewhere in Latin America interpreted as a peace offering. The beatification of Bishop Óscar Romero, a Salvadoran who was killed by a right-wing death squad in 1980 and is considered a martyr by many disciples of liberation theology, had been frozen since 2005, the year Benedict assumed the papacy, but Francis almost immediately ordered it reopened.
Liberation theologians often critical of Vatican policies have responded in kind, led by Leonardo Boff, a former Franciscan priest who in 1985 was ordered not to write or speak publicly for a year because of his positions by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, headed at the time by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the future Benedict. Now an emeritus professor of the philosophy of religion at the state university here in Rio, Mr. Boff just last week published a laudatory biography of the pope.
“It doesn’t matter that Pope Francis doesn’t use the expression ‘theology of liberation,’ ” Mr. Boff said recently. “What is important is that he speak and act on behalf of the liberation of the poor, the oppressed and those who have suffered injustice. And that is what he has done, with indubitable clarity.” |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: The Pope will visit Brazil |
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| Kuros wrote: |
Pope Francis has endorsed the Brazil protests in general terms and will address them in more particularity next week (July 22-26).
| John Thavis wrote: |
| This puts him back in the world spotlight, and I suspect we are going to hear a lot not just about the Brazilian situation, but the world situation, the divide between the rich and poor and the church’s social teaching. |
Meanwhile, a truce has arisen between the Vatican and the liberation theology movement.
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Barely a month after becoming pope, Francis took a symbolically important step that liberation theologians here and elsewhere in Latin America interpreted as a peace offering. The beatification of Bishop Óscar Romero, a Salvadoran who was killed by a right-wing death squad in 1980 and is considered a martyr by many disciples of liberation theology, had been frozen since 2005, the year Benedict assumed the papacy, but Francis almost immediately ordered it reopened.
Liberation theologians often critical of Vatican policies have responded in kind, led by Leonardo Boff, a former Franciscan priest who in 1985 was ordered not to write or speak publicly for a year because of his positions by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, headed at the time by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the future Benedict. Now an emeritus professor of the philosophy of religion at the state university here in Rio, Mr. Boff just last week published a laudatory biography of the pope.
“It doesn’t matter that Pope Francis doesn’t use the expression ‘theology of liberation,’ ” Mr. Boff said recently. “What is important is that he speak and act on behalf of the liberation of the poor, the oppressed and those who have suffered injustice. And that is what he has done, with indubitable clarity.” |
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This is incrediably good news, the best signs that this vatican will be moving in a positive direction that I can remember seeing for a long time. |
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GF
Joined: 26 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: The Pope will visit Brazil |
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| Kuros wrote: |
Pope Francis has endorsed the Brazil protests in general terms and will address them in more particularity next week (July 22-26).
| John Thavis wrote: |
| This puts him back in the world spotlight, and I suspect we are going to hear a lot not just about the Brazilian situation, but the world situation, the divide between the rich and poor and the church’s social teaching. |
Meanwhile, a truce has arisen between the Vatican and the liberation theology movement.
| Quote: |
Barely a month after becoming pope, Francis took a symbolically important step that liberation theologians here and elsewhere in Latin America interpreted as a peace offering. The beatification of Bishop Óscar Romero, a Salvadoran who was killed by a right-wing death squad in 1980 and is considered a martyr by many disciples of liberation theology, had been frozen since 2005, the year Benedict assumed the papacy, but Francis almost immediately ordered it reopened.
Liberation theologians often critical of Vatican policies have responded in kind, led by Leonardo Boff, a former Franciscan priest who in 1985 was ordered not to write or speak publicly for a year because of his positions by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, headed at the time by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the future Benedict. Now an emeritus professor of the philosophy of religion at the state university here in Rio, Mr. Boff just last week published a laudatory biography of the pope.
“It doesn’t matter that Pope Francis doesn’t use the expression ‘theology of liberation,’ ” Mr. Boff said recently. “What is important is that he speak and act on behalf of the liberation of the poor, the oppressed and those who have suffered injustice. And that is what he has done, with indubitable clarity.” |
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Bergoglio's WYD is a scandal. "Dancing Bishops":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9b9mG_ZXUo
From the Spirago-Clark Catechism:
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The office of the priesthood, to which a man is raised by Holy Orders, is one of great dignity, but likewise one of no slight difficulty and of vast responsibility.
The priesthood is the highest dignity upon earth. It surpasses that of kings and emperors, nay, even of the angels themselves...
The sacerdotal office is also one of great difficulty; the obligations resting upon the priest are neither few nor light... he is bound to renounce all worldly amusements... |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:15 am Post subject: Re: The Pope will visit Brazil |
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| GF wrote: |
From the Spirago-Clark Catechism:
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The office of the priesthood, to which a man is raised by Holy Orders, is one of great dignity, but likewise one of no slight difficulty and of vast responsibility.
The priesthood is the highest dignity upon earth. It surpasses that of kings and emperors, nay, even of the angels themselves...
The sacerdotal office is also one of great difficulty; the obligations resting upon the priest are neither few nor light... he is bound to renounce all worldly amusements... |
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Add to those difficulties one of the most boring tasks I can think of, saying daily mass, every single day, 2 or 3 times on Sundays, for the rest of their lives. That would be hell on earth for me.
That was my main takeaway when I attended my first mass in 20 years this last weekend in Cleveland - a special jubilee held for my aunt who has been a nun for 70 years.
By the way that was 70 years mostly spent teaching in the poorest areas of Cleveland. She certainly walked the walk, and out of respect for her while she is still alive I will keep my criticisms of the church mostly to myself, and occasional anonymous discussion boards. It's a bunch of hooey, to be sure, but there are still plenty of people like my aunt. Don't throw out the baby with the baptism water. |
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GF
Joined: 26 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Bergoglio contradicts predecessor's decree, suppresses the Traditional Latin Mass among large Franciscan community:
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| The Franciscans of the Immaculate will have to comply with the prohibition on celebrating the Mass in the ancient rite beginning Sunday, August 11. |
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| The astonishment stems from the fact that what is decreed contradicts the dispositions given by Benedict XVI, which for the celebration of the Mass in the ancient rite “sine populo" demand no previous request for authorization whatsoever |
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| Many Traditional Latin Mass sites are open only because of the ministry of FFI priests; it remains to be seen how many of these Masses will have to be ended because of this decree. |
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/07/important-pope-francis-severely.html |
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