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| Work for a hagwon with cctv in the classrooms? |
| Ya sure, why not? I've got nothing to hide |
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| No way!!! |
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| Total Votes : 25 |
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OBwannabe
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
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 Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:20 pm Post subject: Would you work for a hagwon with cctv in the classrooms? |
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What are the drawbacks to having CCTV for the competent and devoted teacher?
Any stories to share?
Is CCTV in the classroom a reflection upon what type of employer you might end up working for? |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Having a defense when little Im-jay or Mi-jin accuses you of hitting him/her or touching him/her in an inappropriate manner and the means to prove your innocence. (speaking from experience - falsely accused of kicking a student).
Having the means to have class observations, critique and feedback without your kids going off-track because there is someone new in the classroom.
(also speaking from experience.)
Having the opportunity to show how good you are and increase your value to your employer (making you worth keeping around, even at increased salary and benefits, when others are being let go). You won't go anywhere if they can't see how good you are.
On the con side... if you are an incompetent boob in the classroom it certainly will move to get you terminated in a hurry. It is hard to hide or make excuses when the customers can watch you.
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War Eagle
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| What Ttom said. It will probably help you more than it could hurt you, unless you don't deserve to be "teaching" in the first place. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Only the guilty could possibly have any objection. As with CCTV cameras on every street corner and government snooping on emails and internet access etc etc.. Think about the best schools/ companies to work for in Korea in terms of salary and conditions and ask yourself if they have CCTV in every class room. Just aother perspective on the debate. I have no idea if they have or not but I suspect they don't. Might be wrong though. And I'm not talking about Fussycourdroy's test prep kiddie hagwan, as I'm sure that does. |
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thebearofbundang
Joined: 02 Sep 2012
Location: Bundang
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Think about the best schools/ companies to work for in Korea in terms of salary and conditions and ask yourself if they have CCTV in every class room. |
Companies are different. They don't have the 'vulnerable children' angle..
As for the best schools, neither of the International schools I have worked at had/have CCTV in the classroom. However, the requirements and vetting process to teach in these schools are much higher than a hogwan.
- A minimum of a B.Ed.
- A valid teachers license from your home country.
- Multiple teaching related references from your home country.
- A letter of 'good professional standing' from all school boards you have been employed by.
- A lengthy in person interview process to get the job.
- A minimum of 2 years teaching experience in your home country.
etc..
By no means does this mean that qualified teachers with good references and experience are all great teachers who would never do anything wrong. They are not. But, I think this buys them more trust with the administration and parents.
As for my personal take on it, I like the idea of CCTV in the classroom, but not as a way to evaluate teachers. Only as a way to protect the students and the teacher from inappropriate behavior and false accusations. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| thebearofbundang wrote: |
| As for my personal take on it, I like the idea of CCTV in the classroom, but not as a way to evaluate teachers. Only as a way to protect the students and the teacher from inappropriate behavior and false accusations. |
In my personal experience, as an evaluation tool, there is NOTHING better than observing and discussing your own classes to get an interesting perspective for improvement but unfortunately they are far too often NOT used for that purpose.
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thebearofbundang
Joined: 02 Sep 2012
Location: Bundang
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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ttompatz
thebearofbundang wrote:
As for my personal take on it, I like the idea of CCTV in the classroom, but not as a way to evaluate teachers. Only as a way to protect the students and the teacher from inappropriate behavior and false accusations.
In my personal experience, as an evaluation tool, there is NOTHING better than observing and discussing your own classes to get an interesting perspective for improvement but unfortunately they are far too often NOT used for that purpose. |
I think this may depend on the age of the students as well. All of my experience has been with upper elementary grades along with active Principals and VP's. It was not uncommon for them to pop in during class.
The students would not act differently.
I think it would be difficult to get a good feeling about how the class is going and how the teacher is doing using only CCTV, unless the equipment was top of the line and gave you a good view (and sound) of everything that was going on in the class. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| As for the best schools, neither of the International schools I have worked at had/have CCTV in the classroom. However, the requirements and vetting process to teach in these schools are much higher than a hogwan. |
Exactly. Clocking in and off, timed cigarette breaks, monitored computer access etc.. etc... CCTV can be lumped together with all these as something you associate with a company that employs people they can't trust. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| thebearofbundang wrote: |
I think this may depend on the age of the students as well. All of my experience has been with upper elementary grades along with active Principals and VP's. It was not uncommon for them to pop in during class.
The students would not act differently.
I think it would be difficult to get a good feeling about how the class is going and how the teacher is doing using only CCTV, unless the equipment was top of the line and gave you a good view (and sound) of everything that was going on in the class. |
Stick a camera in the corner of your room and turn it on.
Go back and watch it later.
You'd be surprised at what YOU will pick up on in both the class and your own performance in the class that you don't even think about when you are actually teaching the class.
Makes a great method of either self or peer reviewed improvement and it is less intrusive than an observer in the class.
And yes, students do behave and perform differently when there is an observer in the class (even in the best of schools).
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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I had a student fall out of his seat and hit his head on the open door. I was close by, but not close enough to catch him (I did try). Had the CCTV not been there, I could have gotten in trouble, as they could have claimed negligence.
Also, my boss positioned the camera so it faced the students, not the board. It wasn't fancy, and there was no rotating mechanism. She made it clear to me that it was to protect us, and she had been right about that. I used to watch the videos sometimes and my desk and computer weren't in the shot. |
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byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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Would I mind having CCTV in the classroom at a hagwon? I did it years ago and had no problem with doing so whatsoever. Would I work in a hagwon again? No chance!
I'm in the same situation as thebearogbundang these days. I don't think it would be a bad idea to have the cameras at our school, if for nothing else than to protect both sides. As far as using it as a tool to observe/evaluate my own classes, I can see where that could be beneficial as well. I have a pretty good idea what I'm doing and not doing usually. Some classes are just better than others and I've got a pretty good feel for those things.
What would be interesting is to put the CCTV in the public school classrooms for NETs, especially those that have a classroom that also doubles as their office. |
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IPayInCash
Joined: 27 Jul 2013
Location: Away from all my board stalkers :)
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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A teacher that protests having CCTV in the classroom has either something to hide or is a crummy teacher 99% of the time.
I also got into an altercation with a student at a hagwon. When the boss asked me to say my side of the story I did truthfully and said "check the tapes if you don't believe me" and that was the end of it.
When my boss tried to tell me I was letting my kids out too early I said "check the tapes if you don't believe me" and that was the end of it.
I don't have it anymore at my new job. But I sometimes wish I did since we're really one accident away from getting in huge trouble if you think about it. |
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sligo
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| In a country that over-reacts whenever a foreigner does something mildly odd, if i could, i would demand CCTV in a classroom if i were teaching kids. If it comes to my word against a Korean, i have already lost. I may not go to jail, but i would almost definitely lose my job, due to the way bosses fold to parental pressure. I work at a uni, but would still welcome CCTV in my classroom. I work to the best of my abilities, so am not afraid of the light i am seen in. But CCTV does not lie, and as such could be the only friend you have if there is a little twunt in the class who wants to make life hell. |
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beentheredonethat777
Joined: 27 Jul 2013
Location: AsiaHaven
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:00 am Post subject: |
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[quote="IPayInCash"]A teacher that protests having CCTV in the classroom has either something to hide or is a crummy teacher 99% of the time.
I also got into an altercation with a student at a hagwon. When the boss asked me to say my side of the story I did truthfully and said "check the tapes if you don't believe me" and that was the end of it.
When my boss tried to tell me I was letting my kids out too early I said "check the tapes if you don't believe me" and that was the end of it.
I don't have it anymore at my new job. But I sometimes wish I did since we're really one accident away from getting in huge trouble if you think about it.[/quote |
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^^.This.
Let's see. I have worked in several public and private schools that had CCTV. I have also worked in some that didn't have camera BUT a big window that served as observation deck for parents, secretary, and boss to perch themselves up on a stool to observe the teacher/student interaction. I hated being watched like a show pony. But the latter actually got me a VERY BIG raise.
In the public school setting, there were cameras in both my private office and in my classroom. The teachers were instructed on several occasions to
watch me teach and evaluate. I actually loved this, to be honest. Because I love teaching so much. These evaluations resulted in extra vacation days, dinners, small gifts from the principal.
CCTV is kind of like a safety net for teachers. "He said/she said" won't work.
But saying, "Check the tape" always will.
Having said that, my current school doesn't have the CCTV, but the window watching people. Some days I bring my tripod and camera and set it up to record the students. There is a vey noticeable change in their posture and attitude when the camera is present.
Just my 2 cents! |
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tob55
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| When I first came to Korea, I worked in a chain hagwon, which had CCTV hooked up to each room of the academy. Not only that, but they also had Internet hook up, so moms could watch their children from the comfort of their own home simply by logging onto the business website. It never bothered me in the least, because I was too busy teaching and working with the children to pay attention to it. There are many other issues in hagwons to be concerned about, so I wouldn't be too worked up over it. Back in my home country, I was used to being watched anyway since I worked as an Interactive TV language instructor for 8 years, working in a host location and being broadcast out to 15 different schools during my work day. |
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