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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| The Grumpy Senator wrote: |
| I think a better comparison would be the Confederate Flag. |
The only two similarities between those flags is a couple shared colors and an uncanny ability to evoke irrational emotional responses in those suffering from some kind of victimhood disorder.
The Rising Sun flag was a slight modification to an existing flag, intending to symbolize and celebrate the Meiji Restoration. That some forty years after its adoption Japan engaged in yet another cycle of vicious Asian conquest should be irrelevant.
| Quote: |
| Take one of those to a sporting event in the US and see what reaction you get. |
Confederate flags can be quite common at US sporting events, depending on the team. For example, Ole Miss. |
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byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| byrddogs wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Those signs (Koreans) and the imperial flag (Japanese) were out of place at a sporting event. That is the extent of any "outrage" one should feel about this.
If they were against the rules, one can hope the respective Football federations will be fined according to the rules, then again as was said earlier, both offending signs / flags were taken down during the game so this may all be a moot point. |
True, the signs/flag were surely in bad taste. They did the proper thing in having both removed. As for the "taken down during the game", I guess it was just an oversight that one of the offenders was noticed and handled so quickly while the other managed to stick around for quite a bit longer.
| fezmond wrote: |
I was in the stadium. A guy near us was waving his imperial Japanese flag for a good while before security made him take it down.
The Korean side has their two flags/banners with Yi Sun Shin and An Jung-geun and then the text about the future/past.
Don't agree with that shit from either side but it was telling that the single Japanese fan was made to withdraw his within about 5 minutes whereas it took nearly 50 for the 'no future' banner on the Korean side. |
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Who knows. The point is they were both taken down during the game. That ends it as far as I am concerned. |
Yeah true, who knows? We surely don't. I guess the only people that do are the scores of officials at the stadium. You're right, that is a point. There is that other pesky little point that one was successfully taken care of probably before the match even began while the other lasted til near the half of the match. As long as it ended eventually as far as you are concerned is certainly enough. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Those signs (Koreans) and the imperial flag (Japanese) were out of place at a sporting event. |
The Rising Sun flag should be no more controversial than the Union Jack, and when the Koreans and Chinese throw these tantrums about it they appear embarrassingly childish. |
Actually that is a bad comparison, sorry.
The Imperial Japanese flag means much more to asians than the Union Jack does to other countries outside of Britain in terms of what it means.
A brief read of history (not just WWII) will show you why and this goes far beyond Koreans and Chinese. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| byrddogs wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| byrddogs wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Those signs (Koreans) and the imperial flag (Japanese) were out of place at a sporting event. That is the extent of any "outrage" one should feel about this.
If they were against the rules, one can hope the respective Football federations will be fined according to the rules, then again as was said earlier, both offending signs / flags were taken down during the game so this may all be a moot point. |
True, the signs/flag were surely in bad taste. They did the proper thing in having both removed. As for the "taken down during the game", I guess it was just an oversight that one of the offenders was noticed and handled so quickly while the other managed to stick around for quite a bit longer.
| fezmond wrote: |
I was in the stadium. A guy near us was waving his imperial Japanese flag for a good while before security made him take it down.
The Korean side has their two flags/banners with Yi Sun Shin and An Jung-geun and then the text about the future/past.
Don't agree with that shit from either side but it was telling that the single Japanese fan was made to withdraw his within about 5 minutes whereas it took nearly 50 for the 'no future' banner on the Korean side. |
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Who knows. The point is they were both taken down during the game. That ends it as far as I am concerned. |
Yeah true, who knows? We surely don't. I guess the only people that do are the scores of officials at the stadium. You're right, that is a point. There is that other pesky little point that one was successfully taken care of probably before the match even began while the other lasted til near the half of the match. As long as it ended eventually as far as you are concerned is certainly enough. |
Look you want to rage over a 45 minute difference in stadium security reaction at a football match where people brandish offensive - politically loaded signs, you go ahead!
In fact, instead of getting worked up about it here, write to the football federations, to FIFA or to the relevant official body and voice your displeasure about the time difference. I am quite sure you can support your complaint with solid facts and arguments. Or, continue whining about it here...up to you. |
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robbie_davies
Joined: 16 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:52 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
The Imperial Japanese flag means much more to asians than the Union Jack does to other countries outside of Britain in terms of what it means.
A brief read of history (not just WWII) will show you why and this goes far beyond Koreans and Chinese. |
They don't like the Union Flag or 'God Save the Queen' anywhere in the Republic of Ireland or nationalist communities in Ulster. A waver of the said flag would come just as much of a cropper there as a flag waver of the rising sun would in Korea. |
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byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| byrddogs wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| byrddogs wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Those signs (Koreans) and the imperial flag (Japanese) were out of place at a sporting event. That is the extent of any "outrage" one should feel about this.
If they were against the rules, one can hope the respective Football federations will be fined according to the rules, then again as was said earlier, both offending signs / flags were taken down during the game so this may all be a moot point. |
True, the signs/flag were surely in bad taste. They did the proper thing in having both removed. As for the "taken down during the game", I guess it was just an oversight that one of the offenders was noticed and handled so quickly while the other managed to stick around for quite a bit longer.
| fezmond wrote: |
I was in the stadium. A guy near us was waving his imperial Japanese flag for a good while before security made him take it down.
The Korean side has their two flags/banners with Yi Sun Shin and An Jung-geun and then the text about the future/past.
Don't agree with that shit from either side but it was telling that the single Japanese fan was made to withdraw his within about 5 minutes whereas it took nearly 50 for the 'no future' banner on the Korean side. |
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Who knows. The point is they were both taken down during the game. That ends it as far as I am concerned. |
Yeah true, who knows? We surely don't. I guess the only people that do are the scores of officials at the stadium. You're right, that is a point. There is that other pesky little point that one was successfully taken care of probably before the match even began while the other lasted til near the half of the match. As long as it ended eventually as far as you are concerned is certainly enough. |
Look you want to rage over a 45 minute difference in stadium security reaction at a football match where people brandish offensive - politically loaded signs, you go ahead!
In fact, instead of getting worked up about it here, write to the football federations, to FIFA or to the relevant official body and voice your displeasure about the time difference. I am quite sure you can support your complaint with solid facts and arguments. Or, continue whining about it here...up to you. |
Now, if anyone is getting all worked up and "raging" here, Pat it is clearly you. Calm down, it will all be ok. That is the end of that as far as I am concerned. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| byrddogs wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| byrddogs wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| byrddogs wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Those signs (Koreans) and the imperial flag (Japanese) were out of place at a sporting event. That is the extent of any "outrage" one should feel about this.
If they were against the rules, one can hope the respective Football federations will be fined according to the rules, then again as was said earlier, both offending signs / flags were taken down during the game so this may all be a moot point. |
True, the signs/flag were surely in bad taste. They did the proper thing in having both removed. As for the "taken down during the game", I guess it was just an oversight that one of the offenders was noticed and handled so quickly while the other managed to stick around for quite a bit longer.
| fezmond wrote: |
I was in the stadium. A guy near us was waving his imperial Japanese flag for a good while before security made him take it down.
The Korean side has their two flags/banners with Yi Sun Shin and An Jung-geun and then the text about the future/past.
Don't agree with that shit from either side but it was telling that the single Japanese fan was made to withdraw his within about 5 minutes whereas it took nearly 50 for the 'no future' banner on the Korean side. |
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Who knows. The point is they were both taken down during the game. That ends it as far as I am concerned. |
Yeah true, who knows? We surely don't. I guess the only people that do are the scores of officials at the stadium. You're right, that is a point. There is that other pesky little point that one was successfully taken care of probably before the match even began while the other lasted til near the half of the match. As long as it ended eventually as far as you are concerned is certainly enough. |
Look you want to rage over a 45 minute difference in stadium security reaction at a football match where people brandish offensive - politically loaded signs, you go ahead!
In fact, instead of getting worked up about it here, write to the football federations, to FIFA or to the relevant official body and voice your displeasure about the time difference. I am quite sure you can support your complaint with solid facts and arguments. Or, continue whining about it here...up to you. |
Now, if anyone is getting all worked up and "raging" here, Pat it is clearly you. Calm down, it will all be ok. That is the end of that as far as I am concerned. |
Not raging or worked up at all.
In fact Byrd, why not re-visit your previous response instead? I mean you are the one who was clearly upset about that 45- minute gap in reaction! I know this worries you and that it bothers you, so let it out, get active about it. It will be much better for your health.
I mean look at what you wrote:
There is that other pesky little point that one was successfully taken care of probably before the match even began while the other lasted til near the half of the match. As long as it ended eventually as far as you are concerned is certainly enough.
It clearly does bother you, maybe you lost sleep over it? I say do something about it! Heck, start a petition or something. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| No need to get a Raging Bull Hard On over the Rising Sun. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| No need to get a Raging Bull Hard On over the Rising Sun. |
Indeed. |
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fezmond
Joined: 27 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:16 am Post subject: |
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Patrick, I believe he was making the point that when the rising sun flag was raised, it was taken down as soon as the staff got there. Maybe they knew the guy was going to fly it, maybe they didn't as he had it in a long wrapped bag (like an umbrella case).
The massive Korean banners were obviously going to be offensive as they refused to show them before the game kicked off (about 70 yards wide for the big one). The fact that the staff didn't even bother to attempt to remove them for a further 50 minutes may suggest that there was a bit of favouritism going on. It's stupid to suggest otherwise.
Also, the Union Jack is a great offence, and I mean great to a lot of communities outside of the UK. I don't think you comprehend how much that flag means if you haven't been a part of it. |
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byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| fezmond wrote: |
Patrick, I believe he was making the point that when the rising sun flag was raised, it was taken down as soon as the staff got there. Maybe they knew the guy was going to fly it, maybe they didn't as he had it in a long wrapped bag (like an umbrella case).
The massive Korean banners were obviously going to be offensive as they refused to show them before the game kicked off (about 70 yards wide for the big one). The fact that the staff didn't even bother to attempt to remove them for a further 50 minutes may suggest that there was a bit of favouritism going on. It's stupid to suggest otherwise.
Also, the Union Jack is a great offence, and I mean great to a lot of communities outside of the UK. I don't think you comprehend how much that flag means if you haven't been a part of it. |
Indeed. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Also, the Union Jack is a great offence, and I mean great to a lot of communities outside of the UK. I don't think you comprehend how much that flag means if you haven't been a part of it. |
What communities? Part of what exactly? Why would anyone take offense at a national flag anyway? Even if they had some kind of problem with the way the UK has treated them or their country in the past, why would they object to the flag?. Knowing that every modern country has to have one? It's not logical. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| geldedgoat wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Those signs (Koreans) and the imperial flag (Japanese) were out of place at a sporting event. |
The Rising Sun flag should be no more controversial than the Union Jack, and when the Koreans and Chinese throw these tantrums about it they appear embarrassingly childish. |
Actually that is a bad comparison, sorry.
The Imperial Japanese flag means much more to asians than the Union Jack does to other countries outside of Britain in terms of what it means. |
I acknowledged the mewling mass those people become at the sight of the Rising Sun, but their inappropriate reactions should not obligate the rest of the world to play along.
| Quote: |
| A brief read of history (not just WWII) will show you why and this goes far beyond Koreans and Chinese. |
Here's three starting points for you:
Rising Sun Flag
Meiji Restoration
Union Jack
| fezmond wrote: |
| Also, the Union Jack is a great offence, and I mean great to a lot of communities outside of the UK. |
I wouldn't say "a lot" but yes, some groups also react poorly to the Union Jack (as well as the Stars and Bars and a number of other national flags). Yet we seem to have enough sense to not ban Britain from showing their national pride at sporting events by waving one of their flags, so why pick on the Japanese? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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So if German fans started waiving Imperial German flags or if Russian fans started waving Soviet flags, those Polish, Lithuanians, and so on would be "whining children"?
Or to take it up a notch, the Confederate flag.
Or to take it up another notch, a Swastika flag. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| robbie_davies wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
The Imperial Japanese flag means much more to asians than the Union Jack does to other countries outside of Britain in terms of what it means.
A brief read of history (not just WWII) will show you why and this goes far beyond Koreans and Chinese. |
They don't like the Union Flag or 'God Save the Queen' anywhere in the Republic of Ireland or nationalist communities in Ulster. A waver of the said flag would come just as much of a cropper there as a flag waver of the rising sun would in Korea. |
I must have said it unclearly because I meant the Union Jack would not have much impact at a Japan-Korea soccer game or in asia in general (except perhaps in the old Brit colonies and even then it would not be seen as badly) when compared to the Japanese Imperial Flag.
Compare this thus: a Poland - Germany, Russia - Germany... football match where some German fans wave a Nazi flag.... |
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