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tcatsninfank
Joined: 03 Apr 2013
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 Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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I was initially in the same boat as you and I found the CELTA invaluable in that way. You'll be teaching real students with full on feedback from qualified professionals. Even now I still regularly remember ideas and concepts that were taught me all those years ago.
Unfortunately the vast majority of eslers are first timers that hit Korea without qualifications. They can take many months to reach a manageable level of teaching, but even then, they will never progress beyond a certain point simply because they don't have the knowledge. They aren't guided by concepts. And years later they are still making basic, ameteur mistakes in the classroom because they never got the right foundation. I don't want to be mean, but this is just my observation. |
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| So basically, do not come here with no money. Getting a celta is secondary to ensuring you have a safety cushion at this point. |
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| Actually the more I think about it you just go for it with the CELTA. Even thought I had been teaching for a few years prior to taking it, it really improved my teaching. It's hard to get actual worthwhile teacher training post undergrad. Don't waste your money on some cheaper cert where you learn nothing. |
Sorry for going a little quote crazy but I wanted to address these areas specifically. The two of you seem to be on the same page, which is nice.
I recognize that there's some cheap certification I could get that might make me more marketable, and I also recognize that getting the CELTA might not matter a heck of a lot, at least when it comes to Korea.
But I wouldn't be doing it just for the money or marketability. I took some education classes in college and have worked as a tutor on various occasions but I won't claim to be God's gift to teaching or anything of the sort. It'd be great to get some insight into various teaching methodologies. I'm glad that both of you think the CELTA is a worthwhile program for this.
Regarding money, even if you take the worst case scenario--which would be quitting my job, paying for the CELTA, and not working for a couple of months--I'd still have a few thousand dollars in the bank. While living with my grandparents I'd only have about $400/month in bills ($200 less if I sell my car early) so I could stretch those few thousand out for awhile.
So my plan is to aim for a public school position in February, but if that falls through then I'll start looking at hagwons and at other countries.
Last edited by tcatsninfank on Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tcatsninfank
Joined: 03 Apr 2013
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| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Cool! That's some great information and it's just the sort of thing I was looking for. This is just the sort of thing I want to keep in the back of my mind once I get overseas and start thinking about what I'm going to do a little ways down the road. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Swampfox10mm wrote:
I was initially in the same boat as you and I found the CELTA invaluable in that way. You'll be teaching real students with full on feedback from qualified professionals. Even now I still regularly remember ideas and concepts that were taught me all those years ago.
Unfortunately the vast majority of eslers are first timers that hit Korea without qualifications. They can take many months to reach a manageable level of teaching, but even then, they will never progress beyond a certain point simply because they don't have the knowledge. They aren't guided by concepts. And years later they are still making basic, ameteur mistakes in the classroom because they never got the right foundation. I don't want to be mean, but this is just my observation.
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Swampfox would never have written this by the way. He's the biggest CELTA basher on the boards. |
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tcatsninfank
Joined: 03 Apr 2013
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| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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Swampfox10mm wrote:
I was initially in the same boat as you and I found the CELTA invaluable in that way. You'll be teaching real students with full on feedback from qualified professionals. Even now I still regularly remember ideas and concepts that were taught me all those years ago.
Unfortunately the vast majority of eslers are first timers that hit Korea without qualifications. They can take many months to reach a manageable level of teaching, but even then, they will never progress beyond a certain point simply because they don't have the knowledge. They aren't guided by concepts. And years later they are still making basic, ameteur mistakes in the classroom because they never got the right foundation. I don't want to be mean, but this is just my observation.
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Swampfox would never have written this by the way. He's the biggest CELTA basher on the boards. |
My bad. I messed up the quote tags. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| tcatsninfank wrote: |
So my plan is to aim for a public school position in February, but if that falls through then I'll start looking at hagwons and at other countries. |
Hagwons don't care about tefl certs.
Some public schools require a cert if you have no previous exp.
Most public schools will put you on a higher payscale if you have a cert.
Among the schools that want tefl qualifications, CELTA is indeed the preferred option.
If you get into a public school, you won't really need much of a financial cushion. They're not a risk in the same way privately owned hagwons can be. |
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thisisausername
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
If you get into a public school, you won't really need much of a financial cushion. They're not a risk in the same way privately owned hagwons can be. |
This is spot on. Don't go to a hagwon unless you have enough money for airfare and living costs for a few months afterwards should you get screwed or need to flee. But if you go to a public school you don't really need to worry. Public positions vary widely and how cool/terrible they are (some of them are like unbelievable dream jobs iand others are like the sixth ring of hell) but all of them will pay you. |
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Allthechildrenareinsane
Joined: 23 Jun 2011
Location: Lost in a Roman wilderness of pain
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| tcatsninfank wrote: |
| Allthechildrenareinsane wrote: |
| Unless you want to work in a public school, the CELTA or a TEFL certificate aren't requirements for Korea. My two cents would be to save your money for now, look for a decent hagwon job in Korea, get a year or two of hands-on teaching experience under your belt, and then do the CELTA in a relatively cheap locale like Bangkok to either move into a public school position in Korea or a job in another EFL market. |
I would prefer a public school position. For better or worse, I'd prefer to stay away from the hagwon craziness. I understand the public school positions aren't all roses and rainbows either, but there are SO many stories of people getting screwed by hagwons in one way or another.
So it appears that the EPIK/GEPIK public school positions now require a TEFL, correct? |
Not all hagwons involve craziness -- there are decent ones out there. You just have to do your due diligence when considering an offer by reviewing the contract carefully, talking to current and former teachers and checking online for any additional info you can find on the school in question.
If you plan on staying in Korea for more than a year or two, investing in a TEFL-related MA would most likely serve you better than the CELTA.
And yes, public school positions now require a TEFL certificate w/ an in-class teaching component. |
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tcatsninfank
Joined: 03 Apr 2013
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:03 am Post subject: |
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Not all hagwons involve craziness -- there are decent ones out there. You just have to do your due diligence when considering an offer by reviewing the contract carefully, talking to current and former teachers and checking online for any additional info you can find on the school in question.
If you plan on staying in Korea for more than a year or two, investing in a TEFL-related MA would most likely serve you better than the CELTA.
And yes, public school positions now require a TEFL certificate w/ an in-class teaching component. |
I shouldn't have generalized about the hagwons like that, so I apologize. I was just speaking in terms of there being a higher percentage chance of getting screwed by a hagwon than by a public school. There are certainly good hagwons just as there are bad public schools.
I'll be sure to do the due diligence when it comes to any hagwon positions.
Just to be clear, do the public school positions require a TEFL specifically or just any sort of EFL-related certificate? The CELTA would be more beneficial to me as a teacher but I don't think I can get both a TEFL and a CELTA before starting a position. The regulations that were linked by someone earlier in this thread are a little unclear:
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In recent terms, the application process has gradually become more competitive. At this point, it is almost impossible for level 3 applicants to secure a position with the EPIK program. As such, the most common way for level 3 applicants to increase their qualifications would be to enroll in a TEFL or TESOL course.
Currently, we accept a minimum 100 hour TEFL or TESOL certificate as a qualification criteria for level 2 or higher pay grade, regardless of how the course was taken. However, starting from the Fall 2013 term, when we recommend candidates to the POE/MOEs we will give a priority to the applicants possessing a minimum 100 hour TEFL or TESOL with at least a 20 hour offline, in-class component, as opposed to those who only completed a strictly online course. We strongly advise you to take the TEFL or TESOL programs including at least a 20 hour offline, in-class component. However, Busan will only acknowledge TESOL/TEFL certificates that contain at least a 60 hour offline, in-class component. This decision was made to meet requests from the POE/MOEs and schools who wish to have the most qualified Guest English Teachers possible. |
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tcatsninfank
Joined: 03 Apr 2013
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| Oh, and regarding an MA, I totally agree that getting one would be beneficial if I end up teaching more than a year or two. I won't know how I feel about it until I get started, though, and I'll need to build my financial cushion back up. I think my best bet would be to evaluate things the first year and then actively start pursuing an MA at the beginning of the second year. |
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tcatsninfank
Joined: 03 Apr 2013
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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I have found a little more information regarding whether TEFL and CELTA are interchangeable as far as EPIK eligibility is concerned. On EPIK's website, a Level 3 just requires a bachelor's degree in any field. But Level 2 has this listed:
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· Teacher’s license
· TEFL/TESOL or CELTA certificate (100+hours)
· Bachelor’s degree in Education, English or Linguistics
· Master’s degree in any discipline
· 1 year full time teaching experience with Bachelor’s degree in any discipline
· At least 1 year TaLK Schlolar experience |
The one thing they don't make clear is how many of these items are required...as it's written it makes it seem like you need ALL of the items above to qualify for Level 2, but I'm assuming it's just 2 out of 6 or something like that. |
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Allthechildrenareinsane
Joined: 23 Jun 2011
Location: Lost in a Roman wilderness of pain
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| tcatsninfank wrote: |
I have found a little more information regarding whether TEFL and CELTA are interchangeable as far as EPIK eligibility is concerned. On EPIK's website, a Level 3 just requires a bachelor's degree in any field. But Level 2 has this listed:
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· Teacher’s license
· TEFL/TESOL or CELTA certificate (100+hours)
· Bachelor’s degree in Education, English or Linguistics
· Master’s degree in any discipline
· 1 year full time teaching experience with Bachelor’s degree in any discipline
· At least 1 year TaLK Schlolar experience |
The one thing they don't make clear is how many of these items are required...as it's written it makes it seem like you need ALL of the items above to qualify for Level 2, but I'm assuming it's just 2 out of 6 or something like that. |
The info on EPK's website could probably be worded a little more clearly. Anyway, as I understand it, you have to meet at least one of the listed requirements in order to qualify for the Level 2 pay grade. For example, if you have a BA/BS in any discipline AND a TEFL/TESOL or CELTA, then you qualify for Level 2.
Regarding the TaLK Scholar requirement, according to the fine print on EPIK's website, "TaLK Scholar experience is considered the equivalent of an ESL certificate, not full time teaching experience." |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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I am not a "celta basher," Edward.
Simply telling it like it is.
Edward thinks any post not glorifying the CELTA is bashing.
Hint: I am not trying to sell anything. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| Allthechildrenareinsane wrote: |
| public school positions now require a TEFL certificate w/ an in-class teaching component. |
Many schools do not though. Its not a requirement.
Some education boards are advising their schools to prefer applicants with a tefl.
But individual schools are still responsible for selecting whom they wish, and principals tend to do this based on looks, blonde-ness and female-ness. |
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Allthechildrenareinsane
Joined: 23 Jun 2011
Location: Lost in a Roman wilderness of pain
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| Allthechildrenareinsane wrote: |
| public school positions now require a TEFL certificate w/ an in-class teaching component. |
Many schools do not though. Its not a requirement.
Some education boards are advising their schools to prefer applicants with a tefl.
But individual schools are still responsible for selecting whom they wish, and principals tend to do this based on looks, blonde-ness and female-ness. |
You're right, I misspoke. From EPIK's website:
"At this point, it is almost impossible for level 3 applicants to secure a position with the EPIK program. As such, the most common way for level 3 applicants to increase their qualifications would be to enroll in a TEFL or TESOL course.
"Currently, we accept a minimum 100 hour TEFL or TESOL certificate as a qualification criteria for level 2 or higher pay grade, regardless of how the course was taken. However, starting from the Fall 2013 term, when we recommend candidates to the POE/MOEs we will give a priority to the applicants possessing a minimum 100 hour TEFL or TESOL with at least a 20 hour offline, in-class component, as opposed to those who only completed a strictly online course. We strongly advise you to take the TEFL or TESOL programs including at least a 20 hour offline, in-class component. However, Busan will only acknowledge TESOL/TEFL certificates that contain at least a 60 hour offline, in-class component. This decision was made to meet requests from the POE/MOEs and schools who wish to have the most qualified Guest English Teachers possible." |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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To put that above EPIK quote into perspective.... they are not talking about getting a job. They are talking about achieving level 2 pay. At level 2 pay compared to the next lower level, it will take you 2 years to recoup the original cost of completing the CELTA. The raise difference is too small. And to be honest, we have heard the "next year, we are going to require....." for going on 5 years now.
I have said it before and I will say it again.... Korean public schools and the like only find your qualifications attractive IF they can hire you over people with fewer qualifications for no significant increase in cost. They want cheap/young/attractive people --preferably female and blonde-- above all else. If they can get the same with a TEFL certification to advertise to parents, then they are thrilled. Just do not expect to be compensated much for it, because their goal is to be cheap. Quality only matters if it can be had cheap.
And getting a CELTA is not cheap.
They want teachers to foot the bills for more education, but don't want to compensate for it. And has been demonstrated by a CELTA-holder on this thread, the schools may decide to replace you with that blonde BA-holder who costs less, despite your experience, good work history with them, and qualifications. |
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