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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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 Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| fezmond wrote: |
Patrick, I believe he was making the point that when the rising sun flag was raised, it was taken down as soon as the staff got there. Maybe they knew the guy was going to fly it, maybe they didn't as he had it in a long wrapped bag (like an umbrella case).
The massive Korean banners were obviously going to be offensive as they refused to show them before the game kicked off (about 70 yards wide for the big one). The fact that the staff didn't even bother to attempt to remove them for a further 50 minutes may suggest that there was a bit of favouritism going on. It's stupid to suggest otherwise.
Also, the Union Jack is a great offence, and I mean great to a lot of communities outside of the UK. I don't think you comprehend how much that flag means if you haven't been a part of it. |
I realize what the Union Jack represents...and again I was talking about asia (was unclear it seems!). Of course flying the Union Jack in certain countries would be seen as offensive, no debate there! |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
So if German fans started waiving Imperial German flags or if Russian fans started waving Soviet flags, those Polish, Lithuanians, and so on would be "whining children"?
Or to take it up a notch, the Confederate flag.
Or to take it up another notch, a Swastika flag. |
Exactly....
Oh and yes flags have an impact due to history. This is true of many flags. The japanese imperial flag is NOT in use by Japan now, they use another one. That flag is not in use regularly for good reason, much like the German Imperial Flag is no longer in use. The Empire is gone but the history remains so waving that flag at an event where people from countries that empire oppressed will be present is offensive.
This seems pretty obvious.
So to be crystal clear
Japanese fans or a fan waving a Japanese Imperial Flag at a Japan - Korea, or at a Japan vs most asian nations football match is offensive. Waving the current Japanese flag is not.
The Union Jack would be offensive in certain parts of the world...in others it would have no impact..much like some Japanese fan waving the Imperial Flag at France - Japan soccer match would likely have limited impact.
Again, pretty simple.
As SR said, on a more acute level, you could list the Confederate Flag, the Nazi Flag or the Soviet Union Flag as examples of things that would be highly offensive at certain events. |
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nate1983
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| The Grumpy Senator wrote: |
I think a better comparison would be the Confederate Flag. Take one of those to a sporting event in the US and see what reaction you get. |
Never been to a NASCAR race, have ya? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| nate1983 wrote: |
| The Grumpy Senator wrote: |
I think a better comparison would be the Confederate Flag. Take one of those to a sporting event in the US and see what reaction you get. |
Never been to a NASCAR race, have ya? |
True, but then again try burning an American or Confederate flag at a NASCAR event and see what kind of event you get.
Likewise, I wouldn't recommend taking a Confederate flag to the Brooklyn Nets or Memphis Grizzlies game. |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| fezmond wrote: |
| Also, the Union Jack is a great offence, and I mean great to a lot of communities outside of the UK. I don't think you comprehend how much that flag means if you haven't been a part of it. |
LOL. Where is displaying the Union Jack a "great offence"? Once upon a time in the Irish Republic (and still in republican areas of N. Ireland) but where else does it give "great offence"? Haven't seen any union jack riots on the news (except for the pro Union Jack riots in Belfast.) Why in my years have I never encountered anyone offended by the Union Jack? It's proudly displayed in Canada, and it is even the basis of the American flag. Christ, it's even on the flags of Hawaii, New Zealand, Australia and several Canadian provinces. Who are these people so horrified by the Union Jack? Name one country where the display of the Union Jack would drive people into a tizzy?
The Rising Sun it is not. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| France, but it would be limited to dramatic wavings of berets and enraged acts of mime. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| LOL. Where is displaying the Union Jack a "great offence"? Once upon a time in the Irish Republic (and still in republican areas of N. Ireland) but where else does it give "great offence"? Haven't seen any union jack riots on the news (except for the pro Union Jack riots in Belfast.) Why in my years have I never encountered anyone offended by the Union Jack? It's proudly displayed in Canada, and it is even the basis of the American flag. Christ, it's even on the flags of Hawaii, New Zealand, Australia and several Canadian provinces. Who are these people so horrified by the Union Jack? Name one country where the display of the Union Jack would drive people into a tizzy? |
I asked the same question a few pages back but didn't get a response. The point is sometimes other countries will have a grudge against the UK e.g. Spain and Afghanistan right now, Argentina now and then, and they might object to someone waving a Union Jack in the wrong place. But that's not really the same as objecting to the flag itself, it's the country they have a beef
with. The Nazi flag or the Rising sun doesn't represent a modern state, it represents a certain time and a certain mentality. It represents more than the country and will always be objectionable. |
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byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:17 am Post subject: |
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I'll start with you catflap. If you were directing either of your Union Jack posts in my direction, then you are barking up the wrong tree.
Next, for you PB; you clearly aren't able to address what the issue was with the situation without getting worked up. |
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cabeza
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| Scorpion wrote: |
| fezmond wrote: |
| Also, the Union Jack is a great offence, and I mean great to a lot of communities outside of the UK. I don't think you comprehend how much that flag means if you haven't been a part of it. |
LOL. Where is displaying the Union Jack a "great offence"? Once upon a time in the Irish Republic (and still in republican areas of N. Ireland) but where else does it give "great offence"? Haven't seen any union jack riots on the news (except for the pro Union Jack riots in Belfast.) Why in my years have I never encountered anyone offended by the Union Jack? It's proudly displayed in Canada, and it is even the basis of the American flag. Christ, it's even on the flags of Hawaii, New Zealand, Australia and several Canadian provinces. Who are these people so horrified by the Union Jack? Name one country where the display of the Union Jack would drive people into a tizzy?
The Rising Sun it is not. |
There are certain parts of NZ and certain events where it would not he wise to wave a Union Jack. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I'll start with you catflap. If you were directing either of your Union Jack posts in my direction, then you are barking up the wrong tree.
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No, scorpion and I were both addressing fezmond |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
I asked the same question a few pages back but didn't get a response. The point is sometimes other countries will have a grudge against the UK e.g. Spain and Afghanistan right now, Argentina now and then, and they might object to someone waving a Union Jack in the wrong place. But that's not really the same as objecting to the flag itself, it's the country they have a beef
with. The Nazi flag or the Rising sun doesn't represent a modern state, it represents a certain time and a certain mentality. It represents more than the country and will always be objectionable. |
I think this post by Ed clearly summarizes the situation and puts in in accurate perspective. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| I think this post by Ed clearly summarizes the situation and puts in in accurate perspective. |
Talking sense for once. 
Thanks for the PM by the way. I know he is but I just really can't stand that kind of talk. Had to respond. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:58 am Post subject: |
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no worries Ed.
As for the "could not stand what was written and had to respond", I quite understand that.
Good luck out there. |
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