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nick70100
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
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 Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
How about you? What are you getting out of this discussion? Learning Korean takes thousands of hours spread out over years and years and years. Am I not allowed to say that? It hurts your feelings? (Maybe you are reacting from a position of defensiveness.) Knowing Korean isn't worthless; I'm simply arguing it is of limited and declining utility. (Declining because more Koreans know English...and because Korean has the world's lowest birthrate.) Anyways, I think this is a relevant discussion to have. No one else has brought it up (that I know of), and it's worth thinking about and considering. Well, for some. Depending on who you are (you have a Korean wife, nick70100?) it might not be relevant...but it that is the case, no one is forcing you to read this thread.
http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100212052753AAuOKjt |
I'm just keeping myself occupied during some down-time at work, but I never claimed that my time is too valuable to waste on trivial matters such as learning Korean.
It may indeed be a relevant discussion to some degree, but it's certainly not a new discussion for anyone who reads this board on a regular basis or been in Korea more than a week or two. You're acting as if you've discovered some novel information and we're all going to jump and say "Yes! World Traveler, thanks for showing me the truth. Excuse me while I go burn my Korean books." You obviously have some sort of agenda you're trying to push. You're ignoring a lot of the replies, and posting a lot of the same anonymous quotes over and over again. You're also going out of your way to point out how anyone who feels they've gotten something positive out of the experience of learning Korean is different from you ("You have a Korean wife, so your opinion doesn't count"). This is not a productive discussion.
For the record, I'm not married. I don't have a Korean girlfriend, boyfriend, or any sort of significant-other either. I do have Korean friends and co-workers who I speak with on a daily basis though. I guess that discounts everything I've said somehow too?
My problem is that you keep trying to consider the merits of Korean as if you were simply choosing a language in a vacuum. The majority of people who read this forum, the people who you are trying to convince, either currently live in Korea, are planning to come to Korea in the future, or have some other interest in Korea. Which language do you think will be more useful for those people? Korean? or Spanish or Chinese or whatever you consider to be a useful language that's easy to learn?
You may want to tell people to consider going to another country rather than Korea, or even staying home, those are reasonable opinions, but it's entirely different from the point you're trying to make here about language. When it comes to people who are in Korea, there's really no question that learning Korean can increase your quality of life. Likewise, if you're leaving Korea in a few months and planning to go to China, then by all means skip the Korean and go for Chinese. But as far as I can tell you're trying to say that none of this matters, Korean is absolutely less useful than Chinese, and that we should all choose Chinese over Korean no matter where we live and no matter what we plan to do with our lives, and that's quite simply ridiculous.
As for the difficulty, I've already pointed out that thousands and thousands of foreigners are learning Korean all the time. You can argue that it's too hard or that it takes a bit longer to learn than language X, but none of this is stopping any of the people who want to learn and put the effort into it.
The real reason that I'm posting here is that way back when I first arrived in Korea I encountered a lot of naysayers like you telling me not to waste my time studying Korean, and I'm really happy that I didn't listen to them. I'll be glad to offer the alternative viewpoint here, and if even one person finds it useful I'll consider my participation worthwhile.
All I'm trying to say is that learning Korean is not impossible, anyone who wants to can do it, and it may be very beneficial depending on how long you stay here, future plans, etc. Can we agree on that at least? |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:02 am Post subject: |
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| nick70100 wrote: |
| You may want to tell people to consider going to another country rather than Korea, or even staying home, those are reasonable opinions, but it's entirely different from the point you're trying to make here about language. |
That is implied within the discussion, and sure that is a valid point. (In fact, I thought it was pretty evident that was implied. Isn't it obvious the language should be a big factor in choosing whether to come to or stay in Korea?...but for married folk that's not an issue...or less of an issue...because they already found the person, and by extention, the culture, they want to commit to.) I present facts, and people can draw their own conclusions, and apply it to their life in any way they see fit.
One guy on here wrote:
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| It's just not a useful enough language to put in the effort to learning it unless you know you're going to marry in or dedicate your career to the country. |
Maybe he's right; maybe he's not.
Another guy wrote:
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| WHY, in the world, would any sane person study Korean? It must be the single most difficult language in existence that is also utterly useless outside of its own country. Other than the 50 million Koreans here, WHO ELSE, ANYWHERE speaks it to the extent to make learning it useful? I mean, there's Mandarin, Urdu, Farsi, Hindi, Swahili, Russian, Portuguese, French, Arabic...a million others, ALL more useful than Korean. Why waste your mental energy on learning something that will be dead-stop useless to you and to anyone else the moment you get on a plane out of here? Oh, right. So your local Koreans will smile at you, the good foreigner. Sorry that I don't care. |
While I thought what he wrote was distasteful, I couldn't help but think he was right.
Obviously, the more long term a person stays in the country, the more beneficial the language will be. (How long have you been here? I see it is since 2005 at least.)
Also, for those who are married, the language will be more important than for those who are not.
| nick70100 wrote: |
| As for the difficulty, I've already pointed out that thousands and thousands of foreigners are learning Korean all the time. You can argue that it's too hard or that it takes a bit longer to learn than language X, but none of this is stopping any of the people who want to learn and put the effort into it. |
Sure, but most who try their hand at it fail. Tens of thousands put forth at least some effort initially. How many end up being able to speak it?
| nick70100 wrote: |
| All I'm trying to say is that learning Korean is not impossible, anyone who wants to can do it, and it may be very beneficial depending on how long you stay here, future plans, etc. Can we agree on that at least? |
I guess I can't agree on that. What is possible for one person may not be possible for another. What is the opportunity cost for one person may vastly vary person to person.
Any CHILD can learn a language, sure. Can any ADULT? I'm not so sure.
I honestly don't know if I can even learn Korean, or if I can, what the opportunity cost would be. (I'm trying to figure that out.)
I don't think it's fair to say just because you learned Korean in X number of years (how many years was it for you?) everyone else can learn it within that same time frame.
PS- A lot of what you are saying is putting words in my mouth, and not my actual position. I don't have time to address it all, sorry. Your tone is pretty vitriolic. But I really don't care enough to respond.
I just saw this online:
"I�m Korean and I think Korean is the easiest language to learn! It is the most scientific language."
How do you feel about that?
How do you feel about people telling you English is hard but Korean is easy? (It happens to me all the time.) How do you feel about people telling you Chinese and Japanese are hard, but Korean is easy? (That also frequently happens to me.)
Here's some final food for thought: some people responded to my post as "Great post, OP" or "I agree"...but you got mad. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:25 am Post subject: |
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WT,
I think the point some people are making is that you clearly have no interest in learning Korean for reasons that are very much your own. It is then a bit puzzling to see you post numerous threads on the topic of learning Korean and see you get in near constant debate about it with people who did chose to learn it.
Since Korean is not a priority for you (which is fine by the way) then why not move on to another topic? You can do whatever you like but I do not see what you gain by discussing this topic over and over. |
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javis
Joined: 28 Feb 2013
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
How about you? What are you getting out of this discussion? Learning Korean takes thousands of hours spread out over years and years and years. Am I not allowed to say that? It hurts your feelings? (Maybe you are reacting from a position of defensiveness.) Knowing Korean isn't worthless; I'm simply arguing it is of limited and declining utility. (Declining because more Koreans know English...and because Korean has the world's lowest birthrate.) Anyways, I think this is a relevant discussion to have. No one else has brought it up (that I know of), and it's worth thinking about and considering. Well, for some. Depending on who you are (you have a Korean wife, nick70100?) it might not be relevant...but if that is the case, no one is forcing you to read this thread.
http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100212052753AAuOKjt |
Learning another language is tantamount to creating a secondary semantic web in your brain. Considering an undertaking that vast, it's perfectly all right to get discouraged along the way. I'm right there with you on calling bullshit on those who say that learning Korean is easy. As for whether it's worthwhile, the decision calculus is totally up to you, but I would recommend quotes like the following for guidance:
| nick70100 wrote: |
| First, I don�t really understand the comparison of Korean with Japanese, Chinese, or any other language. Is Korean harder? Possibly. Is Korean less useful on a worldwide scale? Sure. Could you make more money as a Japanese-English translator? Absolutely. But what does any of this matter? You act as if you�re just picking a language from a university course list. And if that were the case, these would all be relevant points for discussion, but I don�t think that�s the situation most people reading this forum find themselves in. People might learn Korean because� they live in Korea or have some other interest in the country, be it business, personal, or whatever. In Korea, Korean is the most useful language you can learn, period. I�m willing to make exceptions if you�re planning to leave Korea soon, but otherwise none of the stuff you�ve mentioned matters one bit. So what if Chinese is easier? If this is such a big issue for you, why not just go to China? Want to make a lot of money as a Japanese translator? Go to Japan. There�s no demand for it here. I just don�t understand what sort of point you�re trying to make. |
| Fox wrote: |
| It's not really an either-or choice. For example, I study Korean, but I'm also learning Chinese. My Korean study has already given me a leg up with regards to Chinese vocabulary acquisition, and moreover, my Hanja study has given me a huge advantage regarding character acquisition, which is one of the biggest stumbling blocks for a foreigner learning Chinese I'd imagine. Obviously, if the goal was to simply learn Chinese it would have been faster to just learn Chinese, so that's not my point. My point is that learning Korean (which has its own value in terms of interacting with the people around me) has reduced the amount of time and effort required towards a second valuable acquisition. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| Learning Korean (or any language) is not easy, anyone saying that is just spouting BS. |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| It will take you particularly a long time to become fluent in Korean. Korean is supposed to be a little more difficult than other languages. I heard on average something like 5 hours a day for a year to become fluent. It might be even more demanding than that, I don't know. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| young_clinton wrote: |
| It will take you particularly a long time to become fluent in Korean. Korean is supposed to be a little more difficult than other languages. I heard on average something like 5 hours a day for a year to become fluent. It might be even more demanding than that, I don't know. |
5 hours a day for one year will not make you fluent unless by fluent you mean intermediate conversational level. |
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ghostrider
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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Japanese is probably the most lucrative language to learn for English speakers:
"Also, I think that Japanese to English is one of the highest, if not the highest-paid language combination in most market surveys."
http://thoughtsontranslation.com/2013/04/08/which-language-is-the-best/
There are already too many people that are bilingual in Korean and English just like in the U.S. there are already too many people who can speak both English and Spanish. |
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PigeonFart
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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I lived in Korea for many years while not being able to speak Korean. I got along fine in my 'hogwon-foreign-teacher-party-in-hongdae-and-itaewon' bubble.
I then started to learn Korean. It took a lot of time, effort, and money. I consider it as having been a very worthwhile journey because my life now as an intermediate level speaker is much easier and interesting. It also did my brain the world of good too (research shows the cognitive benefits of multilingualism).
Learning Korean will be harder for mono-glots. It will be much easier for people who were already bi-lingual or multi-lingual before starting to learn Korean. So the costs will be different depending on where your starting point is. But i would argue that the benefits would be the same for all people, maybe even more so for mono-glots who previously didn't know how great it is to be able to think in a foreign tongue. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| But, Korean is the easiest to write. Chinese, Japanese, Hindu, Arabic, I think not? Japanese and Korean use the same pattern. Chinese is tonal and there are thousands of characters. Korean is no doubt one of the more difficult to a native European language speaker but it seems easier to me than those others listed. As for Filipinos and others from SE Asia, they speak Asian languages so it would come easier to them. Many countries have words that originated in China. I could recognize some Japanese words that sounded close to some Korean words because of this ancient history. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| But, Korean is the easiest to write. |
No, Korean letters are the easiest to write, which is a far different thing than expressing ideas through writing. For a native English speaker, using Korean as a tool of eloquent written expression is by no means easy. Chinese or Hindi composition would probably be easier for an English speaker than Korean composition, and I'm not sure how Japanese or Arabic compares. Remember further that Chinese and Japanese both have input method editors, which means when you're typing on a computer, writing them is if anything easier than writing Korean, since you're able to apply your Latin alphabet typing skills in a phonetic fashion. |
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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I'm trying to learn Korean and I'm finding it very difficult. The other people who have mastered it, even to a intermediate level, have my respect.
Unfortunately I'm a bit of a dumbass. Nevertheless, I'll continue to study in the hope that something will sink in. |
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IPayInCash
Joined: 27 Jul 2013
Location: Away from all my board stalkers :)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| Seoulman69 wrote: |
I'm trying to learn Korean and I'm finding it very difficult. The other people who have mastered it, even to a intermediate level, have my respect.
Unfortunately I'm a bit of a dumbass. Nevertheless, I'll continue to study in the hope that something will sink in. |
Youre not a dumbass, its the hardest language in the world (for Native English speakers). Japanese and chinese are both easier. (Mandarin, for the keyboard warriors) |
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Squire
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:06 am Post subject: |
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When I go on holiday to different parts of Asia I'm always reminded why I'm grateful for the hours I've studied Korean. It's very uncomfortable not being able to communicate with taxi drivers, shop assistants and waiters etc. It makes life far more stressful. On top of that I want to be able to speak with everyone at my school and not just the people that speak some English. I'm forever looking up specific words on my phone when issues arise, but usually all I have to do is use that word with expressions I already know to get my point across.
Of course, if you're only here for a year it's another matter. I studied pretty hard in my first year and by the end of that year I wasn't much better off than somebody who could read hangeul and say hello to people. There was a point some time later that everything started to come together, but prior to that most of what I'd studied only started to become useful after studying a lot of other things further down the line |
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