|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
|
 Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:12 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| My favorite brands are Victorinox and Wenger. Are your Tag Huers, Breitling, and Rolexes technically any better. Also will they last any longer? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
The handbags for guys analogy was used because both expensive watches and handbags perform very simple tasks that can easily be carried out with items that cost a fraction of the price of designer goods. The long lasting quality argument doesn't really hold up either as think how many times you'd have to replace a cheap watch over the course of a 30 year period to spend as much as a Rolex. You just wouldn't end up spending that much.
Guys get into watches partly because they like owning expensive things and partly because they're visual signs they carry on their person that show others they can recognize and value 'quality' and have the money to pay for it. Pretty much the same reason women carry designer bags. However guys can go on about the amazing clock work technology etc...to make out they're slightly less shallow than the women. Watchmakers and handbag brands cash in on this mentality by grossly inflating their prices compared to the actual manufacturing costs |
you're not even close. handbags are usually made by chinese indentured slaves and involve very little skill while a fine timepiece is made by extremely skilled technicians and designers. a bag is made of very few individual pieces, a quality watch is made up of THOUSANDS, all on your wrist.
your argument against the long lasting quality is what's not holding up. to get a good quality solid watch doesn't require rolex money or to purchase a rolex itself. playing the extremes game doesn't make you sound knowledgeable about something. sure let's buy 100 cheap digital watches instead of one nice watch. not only is that wasteful but it's missing the point of owning something that was designed and built to last.
of course you will pay a premium for quality items. to argue that point is waste of time. you have fun giving your son your boxful of cheap digital watches and i'll give mine my quality timepiece that has seen more countries that he will probably ever be able to name at one time and i hope it inspires and creates a sense of adventure in him and that he has a physical manifestation of myself that he can always cherish.
i don't disagree with you that a lot of guys get into watches because they like owning expensive things. that's not just guys, that's most humans with almost any possess-able item. you didn't reinvent the wheel with your earthshattering revelation. there are others who appreciate horology however that get into timepieces, movements and watch designs because of the other reasons already listed by posters.
and your holier than thou attitude about price inflation is laughable. i doubt you go throughout your day buying something that isn't grossly inflated. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
you're not even close. handbags are usually made by chinese indentured slaves and involve very little skill while a fine timepiece is made by extremely skilled technicians and designers. a bag is made of very few individual pieces, a quality watch is made up of THOUSANDS, all on your wrist.
your argument against the long lasting quality is what's not holding up. to get a good quality solid watch doesn't require rolex money or to purchase a rolex itself. playing the extremes game doesn't make you sound knowledgeable about something. sure let's buy 100 cheap digital watches instead of one nice watch. not only is that wasteful but it's missing the point of owning something that was designed and built to last.
of course you will pay a premium for quality items. to argue that point is waste of time. you have fun giving your son your boxful of cheap digital watches and i'll give mine my quality timepiece that has seen more countries
that he will probably ever be able to name at one time and i hope it inspires and creates a sense of adventure in him.
i don't disagree with you that a lot of guys get into watches because they like owning expensive things. that's not just guys, that's most humans with almost any possess-able item. you didn't reinvent the wheel with your earthshattering revelation. there are others who appreciate horology however that get into them because of the other reasons already listed by posters.
and your holier than thou attitude about price inflation is laughable. i doubt
you go throughout your day buying something that isn't grossly inflated. |
You seem to be quite angry about the comparison between spending a lot of money on a watch and a handbag. Is this because you are dismissive of women who buy designer handbags? I'm sure they could come up with some very convincing arguments as to why they're worth the money.
There was a poster on here earlier who claimed a jeweller couldn't tell the difference between his fake rolex, presumably also made by Chinese indentured slaves, and the real thing and I have heard a few stories myself about fake rolexes that have lasted people years. I had one myself which worked fine for a few years until I lost it.
As for giving my son a nice watch or a box of cheap digitals, I guess we just have different opinions about it. I probably wouldn't give him either of them as nowadays he'd have probably been clamouring for a mobile phone for ages beforehand anyway, which would tell him all he needs to know and like a lot of modern kids wouldn't see the point of something that just told the time. I can't really get excited about that either.
I don't really understand the reference to being holier than thou about price inflation. I'd have thought it was obvious that the higher up the scale of products you go the higher the profit for the manufacturer will be on individual products, as they're aiming at a limited number of people to whom price is less important than other considerations. Thus, for example, travelling first class on a plane will cost the passenger maybe 10 ten times as much as an economy ticket, though it certainly won't cost the airline 10 times as much to fly them.
None of my 'revelations' about prices or wanting to impress other people were supposed to be earth shattering. As you say they are part of human nature. That's why I'm surprised more people don't just admit that's why they buy designer watches. We all have our little foibles and vanities. Except those with a learned interest in horology of course  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I went to the Patek Philippe museum in Geneva last week. I don't and probably never will own one of their watches (way more than I can afford), but I like them and the museum was incredible. If you're ever in the area... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
meangradin
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The heirloom aspect definetly played in to my decision to buy my Omega. Of course my son may pawn it in the future to payoff gambling debts, buy crack or whatever. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
you're not even close. handbags are usually made by chinese indentured slaves and involve very little skill while a fine timepiece is made by extremely skilled technicians and designers. a bag is made of very few individual pieces, a quality watch is made up of THOUSANDS, all on your wrist.
|
You've clearly never laid hands on an authentic Italian or French designer handbag. The craftsmanship is exquisite. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Old fat expat
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Location: a caravan of dust, making for a windy prairie
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have a couple of Omega's.
I don't wear them, my man servant does when it is necessary.
The truly rich transcend the need to know what time it is. Old money is timeless.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 12ax7 wrote: |
| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
you're not even close. handbags are usually made by chinese indentured slaves and involve very little skill while a fine timepiece is made by extremely skilled technicians and designers. a bag is made of very few individual pieces, a quality watch is made up of THOUSANDS, all on your wrist.
|
You've clearly never laid hands on an authentic Italian or French designer handbag. The craftsmanship is exquisite. |
'
okay i admit maybe i'm discounting bags a bit. i'm not a bag enthusiast so i don't know the exact going-ons about them.
i do however know that even the finest bag requires nothing close to the effort it takes to create a patek minute repeater (one of the most complicated movements, period).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZxo-fXscxg
and edward, i'm not angry, it's just annoying when people who don't realize the value of something come barging into the china shop with a dismissive attitude, especially when they do not own or do not have any experience with said something(s).
i could care less if women buy designer handbags. my life is not relegated to worrying about what others purchase. and just because a jeweler who doesn't work with mechanical watches can't tell the difference between a real rolex and a fake one doesn't mean anything about timepieces in general. it just means the person who took the watch to a jeweler who has no experiences with quality mechanical timepieces might not be the brightest bulb in the box.
and as for the heirloom aspect as meangradin mentioned, maybe my son will pawn off the watch to get that much needed smartphone but maybe he won't. i'd like to think i'd raise a child better than that. i also know from my own personal experience that it would have meant the world to me if my father had passed me down a nice watch but unfortunately he didn't so at least i can start it if i have my own progeny.
holier than thou attitude in terms of price inflation is prevalent because people often think that bad people overpay for things. the reality of our world is that EVERYONE overpays for most things (that's why corporations have so much money and most of us don't). to try and act like it's a bad thing and chide people over it is showing a holier-than-thou air which isn't even justifiable unless you are actually a monk. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
i do however know that even the finest bag requires nothing close to the effort it takes to create a patek minute repeater (one of the most complicated movements, period). |
Right, but complexity in itself is not intrinsically valuable. The complexity of the watch is a factor that appeals to you personally (and others), but it's not as if it's some end in itself.
| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
| and edward, i'm not angry, it's just annoying when people who don't realize the value of something come barging into the china shop with a dismissive attitude, especially when they do not own or do not have any experience with said something(s). |
"Don't realize the value," should be replaced with, "Don't value." The act of valuing is what brings value into the world; nothing is intrinsically and agent-independently valuable. You value the complexity and craftsmanship of a watch, some woman somewhere values the beauty and craftsmanship of a bag, and someone interested in neither sees you both the same way. That's all that was being pointed out with the watch/bag analogy I think.
| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
| ... unless you are actually a monk. |
Working on it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Fox wrote: |
| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
i do however know that even the finest bag requires nothing close to the effort it takes to create a patek minute repeater (one of the most complicated movements, period). |
Right, but complexity in itself is not intrinsically valuable. The complexity of the watch is a factor that appeals to you personally (and others), but it's not as if it's some end in itself.
|
i respectfully disagree. time is money, and the complexity in this conversation about watch movements is very high. it takes a very long time and a lot of effort for some of the more complicated movements to be made, thus even the act of making it is intrinsically valuable in my opinion, especially compared to hand bags as people keep wanting to (interestingly) compare them to. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| i respectfully disagree. time is money, and the complexity in this conversation about watch movements is very high. it takes a very long time and a lot of effort for some of the more complicated movements to be made, thus even the act of making it is intrinsically valuable in my opinion, especially compared to hand bags as people keep wanting to (interestingly) compare them to. |
You didn't really touch on my point about handbags and watches essentially performing very simple tasks, despite costing a lot of money. I think that's the main reason why people might compare them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| i respectfully disagree. time is money, and the complexity in this conversation about watch movements is very high. it takes a very long time and a lot of effort for some of the more complicated movements to be made, thus even the act of making it is intrinsically valuable in my opinion, especially compared to hand bags as people keep wanting to (interestingly) compare them to. |
You didn't really touch on my point about handbags and watches essentially performing very simple tasks, despite costing a lot of money. I think that's the main reason why people might compare them. |
essentially performing simple tasks? what about cars? a "simple" car goes, stops, and turns, but even the simplest of cars is still an engineering feat. a ferrari also goes, stops and turns but does so in a way that no other car in the world can recreate. so to discount something expensive because it does a simple task is a fallacy.
i did touch your point about handbags and watches. i said that it's not a good comparison because the two couldn't be more different in how they are made and the complexity of the two. sure they both do "simple tasks" for expensive items but so would a solid platinum spatula but that's also not a good comparison to a watch. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
essentially performing simple tasks? what about cars? a "simple" car goes, stops, and turns, but even the simplest of cars is still an engineering feat. a ferrari also goes, stops and turns but does so in a way that no other car in the world can recreate. so to discount something expensive because it does a simple task is a fallacy.
|
Come on. Are you really comparing the function of something that just tells the time to what a car does? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
essentially performing simple tasks? what about cars? a "simple" car goes, stops, and turns, but even the simplest of cars is still an engineering feat. a ferrari also goes, stops and turns but does so in a way that no other car in the world can recreate. so to discount something expensive because it does a simple task is a fallacy.
|
Come on. Are you really comparing the function of something that just tells the time to what a car does? |
edward, you often make good posts but are you having a laugh here?
"something that just tells the time"... you talk as if watches don't have altimeters, stop watch functionality, moon phase calendars, barometers, compasses, calendars, tourbillions, chronometers, dive timers, world times, calculators, etc.
a sundial tells the time too and is as cheap as taking a free stick off the ground and by your logic we should all use that since it's cheap and is only "performing a very simple task" over owning a real watch...
so yes, a car is a PERFECT example of why your original statement was a bit silly.
edit: let's have a look at how important chronometers were throughout history, especially in maritime uses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronometer_watch |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
"something that just tells the time"... you talk as if watches don't have altimeters, stop watch functionality, moon phase calendars, barometers, compasses, calendars, tourbillions, chronometers, dive timers, world times, calculators, etc.
a sundial tells the time too and is as cheap as taking a free stick off the ground and by your logic we should all use that since it's cheap and is only "performing a very simple task" over owning a real watch... |
Yes, yes but nobody uses all that other stuff really, do they? It's like the thing for taking the stones out of horses shoes on a Swiss Army knife. I'd guesstimate the vast majority of guys basically buy watches because of how they look, the brand name and how much they cost. I'm prepared to admit you might be an exception. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
