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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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Squire

Joined: 26 Sep 2010 Location: Jeollanam-do
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Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:02 am Post subject: |
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I'm not one for confrontations, so I reckon I'd go along with it for a little while then get lazy with it and start showing up 25, 20 and eventually 15 minutes before classes. Whatever suits. Likewise I'd keep up the email thing for a few weeks then start forgetting more and more often
I'm actually at school at least 30 minutes before classes start every day, but then I'm in a completely different situation where I'm alone in the English class until the kids and CT show up. If I just had to loiter in the classroom while a co-worker messes about on the computer I don't think I'd be in any hurry to arrive every day |
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beentheredonethat777
Joined: 27 Jul 2013 Location: AsiaHaven
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Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| CP wrote: |
You can talk to the manager about it and see what can be done. If nothing then you have 3 choices.
1. Finish out your contract and then leave for a new position then.
2. Quit now.
3. Accept new policies and work there as an angry employee. |
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Alias77
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
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Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:04 am Post subject: |
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Thanks to everyone who has responded, especially the legalese from Ttompatz.
I'm still very unhappy with the situation and will have to sort out what exactly I want to do. At the very least, I do not plan to sign another contract with them.
When I took this job, years ago, I had already rejected several others that were trying to institute that early arrival garbage to make their balls look bigger during bidding season. Most of us are paid on a salary basis, but that is comprised of teaching hours, of which we are fully aware when we sign a contract. It's not even half an hour of teaching, which is somewhat orderly, but fending off a mob of children all seeking direct attention. Adding an extra half hour per day means working an additional 2 weeks over the course of 25 in real time, or a full month over the course of a year. <[(50x5x30)/60]=125 hours> So, I don't feel the need to be generous or any pressure to give up my personal time without some resistance. I'm certainly not getting an additional month's salary for my time and energy. I personally feel that if teachers were to shun early arrival contracts, it would push the trend back.
As to the email of every arrival and departure, I feel strongly about it because I never agreed to being monitored like that when I took this job. I mockingly say that it seems Korean students are a few years away from having to wear GPS tags here. My company, now, sends text messages to each parent when students arrive for class. It's a hassle, but people have become acclimated to it as a service, which means it's now self-perpetuating. So, I feel reactive against this as another baby step for employers, and other adult situations, to legitimise digitally monitoring where I am and when I'm there. I strongly disagree with that. I work with another person who can tell the company if I'm negligent. I'm also not a robot. It could be regarded as pithy, but it's what I feel and I don't like it. Anyone who has been here for any length of time knows we have to accept a lot of crap as it is.
Quite simply, micromanagement blows. I do wish the concept of the contract meant more. At least in the west, you could sue for wrongful termination.
I do have one additional question. If you have an F visa, you no longer need to get a LOR, right? |
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Julius

Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| Squire wrote: |
| I'm not one for confrontations, so I reckon I'd go along with it for a little while then get lazy with it and start showing up 25, 20 and eventually 15 minutes before classes. Whatever suits. Likewise I'd keep up the email thing for a few weeks then start forgetting more and more often |
But then they've got a stick to beat you with whenever they need one.
Problem with all these new micromanagement bright ideas is that they never get reeled back in.
Instead they accumulate with each new boss until you arrive a state of too much stress that they start to think is normal.
It used to be that you had only to threaten to leave and they would start listening, but that doesn't work anymore. |
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ThingsComeAround

Joined: 07 Nov 2008
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Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| Alias77 wrote: |
Thanks to everyone who has responded, especially the legalese from Ttompatz.
I do have one additional question. If you have an F visa, you no longer need to get a LOR, right? |
| Julius wrote: |
| It used to be that you had only to threaten to leave and they would start listening, but that doesn't work anymore. |
Ttompatz didn't know that you were an F-visa holder.
May I ask what type of F-visa? F-4 or F-6?
The employer really has no power over your visa so your options have changed:
A) Do exactly as the new manager says and be unhappy
B) Do what the new manager says and more i.e. troll your messages (I arrived and had to use the toilet for 25 minutes/ Stepped in vomit on the way to work and had to go home to change my shoes) you get the idea
C) Ignore what the manager says / "forget" because you had ten kids bothering you and someone was using the computer
D) Have a verbal discussion with the new manager and become that manager's target
E) Leave and find a new job in a week |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| Alias77 wrote: |
Thanks to everyone who has responded, especially the legalese from Ttompatz.
I'm still very unhappy with the situation and will have to sort out what exactly I want to do. At the very least, I do not plan to sign another contract with them.
When I took this job, years ago, I had already rejected several others that were trying to institute that early arrival garbage to make their balls look bigger during bidding season. Most of us are paid on a salary basis, but that is comprised of teaching hours, of which we are fully aware when we sign a contract. It's not even half an hour of teaching, which is somewhat orderly, but fending off a mob of children all seeking direct attention. Adding an extra half hour per day means working an additional 2 weeks over the course of 25 in real time, or a full month over the course of a year. <[(50x5x30)/60]=125 hours> So, I don't feel the need to be generous or any pressure to give up my personal time without some resistance. I'm certainly not getting an additional month's salary for my time and energy. I personally feel that if teachers were to shun early arrival contracts, it would push the trend back.
As to the email of every arrival and departure, I feel strongly about it because I never agreed to being monitored like that when I took this job. I mockingly say that it seems Korean students are a few years away from having to wear GPS tags here. My company, now, sends text messages to each parent when students arrive for class. It's a hassle, but people have become acclimated to it as a service, which means it's now self-perpetuating. So, I feel reactive against this as another baby step for employers, and other adult situations, to legitimise digitally monitoring where I am and when I'm there. I strongly disagree with that. I work with another person who can tell the company if I'm negligent. I'm also not a robot. It could be regarded as pithy, but it's what I feel and I don't like it. Anyone who has been here for any length of time knows we have to accept a lot of crap as it is.
Quite simply, micromanagement blows. I do wish the concept of the contract meant more. At least in the west, you could sue for wrongful termination.
I do have one additional question. If you have an F visa, you no longer need to get a LOR, right? |
Do you have an F visa? If so, you don't need a release letter. Either adjust to the new rules or make the effort to find a better position, give notice according to your contract (or 30 days if you have no contract provision for resignation), then quit and enjoy your new job. |
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ttompatz

Joined: 05 Sep 2005 Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Alias77 wrote: |
| I do have one additional question. If you have an F visa, you no longer need to get a LOR, right? |
Correct.
Leave at your convenience (the day after payday works best). Then, after 2 weeks (required waiting period before labor will accept a claim for unpaid wages), file a complaint with the labor office for your remaining unpaid salary.
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Julius

Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| (quitting or getting fired may very well mean moving to China for your next job). |
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| May still also require you to move to China |
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| c) just move on to greener pastures (China, etc). |
looks like Tompatz's love affair with korea is finally over.
So when are you moving to China? |
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ttompatz

Joined: 05 Sep 2005 Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
| (quitting or getting fired may very well mean moving to China for your next job). |
| Quote: |
| May still also require you to move to China |
| Quote: |
| c) just move on to greener pastures (China, etc). |
looks like Tompatz's love affair with korea is finally over.
So when are you moving to China? |
I'm not but for anyone with an E2 and who is unable to change jobs due to the lack of a LOR the jump to China is pretty easy.
Thailand, Cambodia and Taiwan are also (albeit lower paying) options.
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:48 am Post subject: |
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Typical example of a useless policy that creates extra work for everyone.
Micromanaging like this is infuriating and insulting. The problem is it could be a great job but it gets ruined with a few dumb ideas thought up by one idiot on a power trip.
The other problem is, most people are sheep and just accept it regardless... which means the bright ideas will keep coming and work benefits will keep eroding.
I was at one job and they added a bunch of unpaid hours on the new contracts. There was no need for the addition as the student numbers stayed the same, but someone told them that a few other schools required more hours, so they decided to add some on... just for the heck of it.
A few people quit on the spot, but the veterans and some others had a plan to not sign the contracts in the hope that the policy could be changed. I thought, "Ok, maybe this could work... IF everyone holds to it." Literally the next day, they ALL turned in their signed contracts. No meetings, no requests, they just folded instantly. I still had my unsigned contract but luckily had something else lined up. That was the tipping point; management now knew they could do anything and kept adding more dumb policies and extra work.
Unless you've got some kind of union going on, always count on people folding.
Just look at the comments on this thread that basically say obey or leave. Often it is like that, but why does it have to be that cut and dried? Nobody wants to even try to negotiate? Is it so out of the realm of possibility to have a meeting where all the employees say, "We'd rather not do that. It's not necessary and creates more work for all of us. But we will come on time and if we don't, you can take corrective action at that point."
But yeah, I suppose it is out of the realm of possibility, since there's always that one guy with no life other than his job that says, "Oh, come on guys, it's just some emails. I don't have a problem with it, or extra hours, or less vacation...we've had it too good for too long anyway... right?" And so it goes.
Grrrr.... |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| Stan Rogers wrote: |
Unhappy employees quit jobs all the time. You can too. |
If you've been thriving at one job for years then you shouldn't be the one who has to move just because one new person with zany ideas comes in and decides to turn your life upside down.
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I wish more people thought like this.
Instead it's a lot of ... just obey! Is it really that bad?
Half the time these policies are made by one idiot with an axe to grind, and should be resisted if possible.
Generally speaking, if you bend over, you get the shaft.
(Yes, admittedly that line could work in the bedroom as well ) |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008 Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:45 am Post subject: |
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Well OP since you have been working at this school for years and have a solid track record there as a dedicated teacher, you could probably TALK to your new boss without the need for a confrontation.
Take the rational approach and just ask the boss (after going to proper channels) calmly why he or she is making these policy changes. At the very least you may find out why this is being done (it could be simply because this new boss wants to put their "stamp" on the school, that happens a lot).
From there and since you are on a F-visa you can make your decision calmy and weigh the pros and cons with a bit more information.
If you find this new boss is just trying to bring the school into what he or she feels is the proper way to do things then you will have your partial answer. There could always be other reasons of course.
Good luck.
As fopr the GPS tags comments you made, I think this will happen sooner than later. It is already happening in Japan where many school age kids have cells / smart phones with a GPS the parents can monitor. This seems to be quite the trend anyway. At my son's school here in Ontario they have an electronic system to monitor when kids arrive and leave the school. When you pick up your child you need a photo ID and then his departure is logged into the system. That is a small step from a GPS tag I think! |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010 Location: Victoria, Canada.
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Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
A few people quit on the spot, but the veterans and some others had a plan to not sign the contracts in the hope that the policy could be changed.
Just look at the comments on this thread that basically say obey or leave.
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I'd add a third option, dis-obey and dare them to fire you. That's what I've done before, just refused to do something. If confronted on it, I'd say, if you feel strongly about it, you can fire me. They never did (both a hogwon and a public school). These aren't dream jobs!
The public school said they wouldn't renew my contract, but I replied, I wouldn't want the job under your new rules anyway. It was no matter anyhow, because another PS hired me across town.
Don't just quit, call their bluff. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
| (quitting or getting fired may very well mean moving to China for your next job). |
| Quote: |
| May still also require you to move to China |
| Quote: |
| c) just move on to greener pastures (China, etc). |
looks like Tompatz's love affair with korea is finally over.
So when are you moving to China? |
I'm not but for anyone with an E2 and who is unable to change jobs due to the lack of a LOR the jump to China is pretty easy.
Thailand, Cambodia and Taiwan are also (albeit lower paying) options.
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I've had a couple of folks tell me it's not so easy. I mean to jump from Korea to China. The paperwork and visa requests meant having to go back to Canada and take some time to apply. Don't know if this is true? Embassy here doesn't give Z visas? |
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ttompatz

Joined: 05 Sep 2005 Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
| (quitting or getting fired may very well mean moving to China for your next job). |
| Quote: |
| May still also require you to move to China |
| Quote: |
| c) just move on to greener pastures (China, etc). |
looks like Tompatz's love affair with korea is finally over.
So when are you moving to China? |
I'm not but for anyone with an E2 and who is unable to change jobs due to the lack of a LOR the jump to China is pretty easy.
Thailand, Cambodia and Taiwan are also (albeit lower paying) options.
. |
I've had a couple of folks tell me it's not so easy. I mean to jump from Korea to China. The paperwork and visa requests meant having to go back to Canada and take some time to apply. Don't know if this is true? Embassy here doesn't give Z visas? |
Hong Kong is a magic place. Also much easier and cheaper than flying home.
And I know of a few who obtained their "Z" visa while working in Korea.
I don't know if they did it at the embassy here, mailed the application to Canada and had it returned via a Canadian address (family) or went to Hong Kong.
I also know a few who went to China on an "L" and then did a visa run to HK to process their "Z".
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