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tob55
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
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 Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Well, the bar does move on occasion, but it isn't unlike other countries. For example the U.S. Greengard is considered a permanent residency card, yet it has a 10 year expiration. I use this example, because this is the supposed model that the Korean MOJ and Immigration people are using to line everything up.
As far as something being permanent, and no longer being that, well chalk it up to Korea changing the way they do things. For example, people who had been here for long periods of time on the E2 visa, with several years of visa renewals, and never had to submit a CRC from their home country. They were then required to provide the document once it was in place. Fair? Not really, but is something Korea added to make things the same for all foreign residents on the E2 visa.
People who had the Fvisa had things really good for a long time, and now they don't have things as good as they were. Fair? Not really, but just the way the system works to make things equal for all foreign residents living in Korea.
People just have to make a decision about their plans on staying in Korea long term or making the decision to move on and try another country or go back to their home country. Regardless, the rules are going to change and if you want to stay under any circumstance, you are going to have to adjust to the new rules. No one is saying it's fair or right, but in the end the Korean Government can do whatever they want to attempt to make the country more secure and safe for people to live and work. IMHO |
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Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:23 am Post subject: |
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Changing the way they do things or moving the bar for new applicants is fine with me. It's their country and they are free to do as they please. However changing a long term resident's permanent visa to non permanent is simply a case of the government going back on it's word. Especially when it's in regard to people who have never been in trouble with the law and have followed all the steps and proper procedures laid out when they submitted their applications years ago.
Grandfathering people in is a reasonable answer because it allows for everyone to save face. The government can still honor their word. A request for a CRC by the ministry is certainly a reasonable thing to ask for. They already have my fingerprints and providing a CRC is no problem.
But I have no control over what they do. Maybe I will still have to juggle swords and pass a TOEIC test as well. Who know? We'll see. |
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chopstick
Joined: 03 Oct 2012
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:47 am Post subject: |
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Stan is spot on. If one has been given a permanent visa then it should remain permanent, as this means the govt sticks to the word it has given. If they want to do it with new applicants then it's kind of hard to argue with...
Would you be so supportive if the govt turned round and said dual citizens now have to renew their citizenship every 2 years? Of course not...
A permanent visa given on the condition of being permanent should remain so. Others seem to think that it will do and this 7 year thing is going to be related to card, not visa, renewal... |
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tob55
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| chopstick wrote: |
Stan is spot on. If one has been given a permanent visa then it should remain permanent, as this means the govt sticks to the word it has given. If they want to do it with new applicants then it's kind of hard to argue with...
Would you be so supportive if the govt turned round and said dual citizens now have to renew their citizenship every 2 years? Of course not...
A permanent visa given on the condition of being permanent should remain so. Others seem to think that it will do and this 7 year thing is going to be related to card, not visa, renewal... |
You're arguing your points with the wrong person. I was on the F5 permanent visa for more than 7 years before switching to dual citizenship. Also, your analogy about having a visa in which the holder is still considered a foreigner versus someone who has taken the steps to gain naturalization as a legal citizen of a country is not a sensible analysis at any level of logic. I am just contributing to the conversation by sharing information I know, take it or leave it. It is and always has been each individual's choice as to what they are willing to accept in order to remain in South Korea. If someone feels that by the Korean government changing rules (which is their own discretion to do so) is an an unfair circumstance and they cannot live under the conditions of those changes, then I suppose they should consider what is best for them by either accepting it, changing their situation (like I did by becoming a dual citizen), or moving back home.
You are not going to get me to argue philosophical "what ifs" about this. I was in the same place the people on the F visas are now, and did a lot of soul searching before becoming a dual citizen. It wasn't an easy decision to make, but I made the decision based on what was best for me and my family. Others should do the same thing and become pro-active in making their situation the best it can be if they want to stay in South Korea. |
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chopstick
Joined: 03 Oct 2012
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| tob55 wrote: |
| chopstick wrote: |
Stan is spot on. If one has been given a permanent visa then it should remain permanent, as this means the govt sticks to the word it has given. If they want to do it with new applicants then it's kind of hard to argue with...
Would you be so supportive if the govt turned round and said dual citizens now have to renew their citizenship every 2 years? Of course not...
A permanent visa given on the condition of being permanent should remain so. Others seem to think that it will do and this 7 year thing is going to be related to card, not visa, renewal... |
You're arguing your points with the wrong person. I was on the F5 permanent visa for more than 7 years before switching to dual citizenship. Also, your analogy about having a visa in which the holder is still considered a foreigner versus someone who has taken the steps to gain naturalization as a legal citizen of a country is not a sensible analysis at any level of logic. I am just contributing to the conversation by sharing information I know, take it or leave it. It is and always has been each individual's choice as to what they are willing to accept in order to remain in South Korea. If someone feels that by the Korean government changing rules (which is their own discretion to do so) is an an unfair circumstance and they cannot live under the conditions of those changes, then I suppose they should consider what is best for them by either accepting it, changing their situation (like I did by becoming a dual citizen), or moving back home.
You are not going to get me to argue philosophical "what ifs" about this. I was in the same place the people on the F visas are now, and did a lot of soul searching before becoming a dual citizen. It wasn't an easy decision to make, but I made the decision based on what was best for me and my family. Others should do the same thing and become pro-active in making their situation the best it can be if they want to stay in South Korea. |
tob55, I don't mean to come across as if I'm criticizing you, but as a matter of principal I disagree with the changes you are talking about.
My issue isn't with the govt changing 'rules', they can ask for what they want from applicants, but changing terms of something post-issue would be wrong, if what you are saying is right.
Sorry to appear like I am 'shooting the messenger' but there's one element I disagree with you on and that is that I think it's wrong that a visa given as permanent should remain permanent. You seem quite supportive of this, not sure why but that's up to you, I guess... |
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tob55
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:22 am Post subject: |
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I am not actually supportive of the changes. I was quite miffed about having to switch from being a "permanent resident" for the very same reasons you and others are mentioning. I spent a lot of time researching the whole issue and knowing Korea as well as I have from my time spent here, I came to the conclusion that for me and my family, the best option was to seek dual citizenship.
I have no argument in support of what the Korean government is going to do more than anyone else who has contributed to the discussion. I also don't want people to think that I am on one side of the fence or the other. I would actually prefer that people who have received their permanent residency could keep things the way they are right now. It would certainly make it easier to live and function somewhat normally in the country, without always having to look over your shoulder for the next knee-jerk reaction coming from the government, but it doesn't look like it is going to play out that way.
I am sorry for that, and I am not offended by those who are angry and commenting on it, because you are right, it is unfair for any government to change rules, knowing full well that it is going to create more hardship than benefit.
No offense taken chopstick, you and others are deservedly upset about this, and I don't blame you. Let's hope the changes I have been told about by my friend at immigration are as someone suggested "just what they hope to see" and not the reality. |
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chopstick
Joined: 03 Oct 2012
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| I wouldn't say I'm 'upset' just a bit irritated! |
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Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| What bothers me about it is the precedent the government is setting. If they go back on thier word and begin stripping honest and good people of their permament visas, what else are they planning to go back on their word about? If I change my job I'll need a letter of release next? |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| What bothers me about it is the precedent the government is setting. If they go back on thier word and begin stripping honest and good people of their permament visas, what else are they planning to go back on their word about? If I change my job I'll need a letter of release next? |
I agree. This easy to flip flop policy making makes me cringe. Set the rules, and stick by them unless something is really mucking up.
Tob, I hate to say this, but I could see the possibility of them not allowing dual citizenship again. It wasn't allowed for many years, and is only recently been reintroduced. Imagine if they flipped on that one as well.
I do believe that a sovereign nation has a right to make its own Immi laws, but as permanent residents... and even citizens, I believe we're owed a discussion on the matter.
Last edited by Captain Corea on Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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chopstick
Joined: 03 Oct 2012
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| What bothers me about it is the precedent the government is setting. If they go back on thier word and begin stripping honest and good people of their permament visas, what else are they planning to go back on their word about? If I change my job I'll need a letter of release next? |
Exactly! And will a 'permanent resident' have to represent all documents at renewal and possibly do further language tests. If these changes are true then are there really any benefits to the F5 holders at all apart from them having to go to Immi less often.
There may be some wires getting crossed here somewhere though as others seem to think that it will be the card that will be renewable every 7 years, not the visa... |
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Mr. Peabody
Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Location: here
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| Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:57 am Post subject: |
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I'll believe it when I see it.
Just like the Masters is compulsory thread. A lot of people getting excited for nothing. |
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Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| Mr. Peabody wrote: |
I'll believe it when I see it.
Just like the Masters is compulsory thread. A lot of people getting excited for nothing. |
True enough. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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You F5's really ought to give them sh!t over it and complain about it. Make sure you cry and get emotional too. Koreans love that sh!t. Anyways, what happens of you're on the F5 and get divorced? Are you out of the country once that 7 years is up? Had a friend get divorced and he was F5 and could stay. He did get remarried eventually though.
Any particular reason that they gave for this? Also, what kind of language requirement is required for the F6?
Man, this country is really turning into a piece of f$%ing sh!t! Time to plan an eventual exit. There is no way on God's green earth I would let a Korean spouse psychologically hang the threat of divorce and losing one's visa over my head. (I've had friends who have had this happen to them and their wives shut up as soon as they got their F5's. Not saying every girl is like that of course.) |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| chopstick wrote: |
| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| What bothers me about it is the precedent the government is setting. If they go back on thier word and begin stripping honest and good people of their permament visas, what else are they planning to go back on their word about? If I change my job I'll need a letter of release next? |
Exactly! And will a 'permanent resident' have to represent all documents at renewal and possibly do further language tests. If these changes are true then are there really any benefits to the F5 holders at all apart from them having to go to Immi less often.
There may be some wires getting crossed here somewhere though as others seem to think that it will be the card that will be renewable every 7 years, not the visa... |
Well, get on those F5 and F6 sites and start complaining to the government. Don't take it lying down boys! Blaze a trail for me should I ever decide to settle down and actually stay after all. Ha ha. |
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