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10 fastest-growing jobs in the U.S
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: 10 fastest-growing jobs in the U.S Reply with quote

The biggest surprises for me were #4 and #3.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/09/02/10-fastest-growing-jobs-in-usa/2750169/

(Do you think this list is correct?)

The translator one at #4 is a surprise. The hourly going rate for a Korean-English translator has dropped so much over the past few years. So assumed it has been going down for other languages as well. Translation technology (such as google translate and voice recognition on cell phones) is certainly getting better. Does translation seem like a good field to get into? Maybe it could be. People around the world are flocking to, desperate to get into the United States, the land of opportunity and the richest country in the history of civilization.

But I think learning the Korean language wouldn't be a big money maker. Why? Because there are loads of people already (of Korean ethnicity) who can speak perfect Korean and perfect English. Korean for a Westerner is hard as hell to learn (as an adult). However, the gypos (and Korean nationals) learned both English and Korean as children.

Japanese is better for making money. Japanese-English is a more rare combination, and Japan's economy is much bigger than Korea's. Other good language choices would be Chinese, Arabic, and Spanish. How much could a speaker of those languages make? Not sure, but keep in mind (for an adult...in the overwhelming majority of cases) learning a language takes a LONG time: years and years and years. Ten years is a good estimate.
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Next, were you surprised about the music one? I sure as hell was. All my life, my parents (and others around me) told me it was impossible to make money from music (likening the odds to that of making the NFL). I wanted to be a music composer as a career, but I was influenced into giving up my dream. Look at the ten year growth: a more than doubling. Still though, 25,000 is a very small number considering the big population of the U.S. (but, hell it's a lot more than the number of Americans teaching ESL in Korea...but then again it's quite likely most people in the U.S. have never even heard of teaching ESL in Korea, though that number is certainly increasing). I thought file sharing was sinking profits in the music industry, but I guess music is still needed for licenced ventures such as video games, advertisements, and movies. How competitive do you think the music making industry is? I am guessing very competitive. Maybe there are opportunities worldwide in emerging markets? I heard in China there is a demand for music composers from the West. (Maybe makers of Chinese pop songs are looking for fresh beats).
________________________________________

It would be faulty to assume a field's growth in the past decade will be equal to its growth in the next. But I guess it can be one factor in helping us make an educated guess.

What do you think?
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If there are really so many perfectly bilingual Koreans around, then why are Korean --> English translations so frequently terrible? Why are English language services in Korea so frequently awkward? The answer, I think, is that the number of genuinely bilingual Koreans is being over-estimated. Many Koreans have very basic proficiency in English, but few have anywhere near native competency. Likewise, while some Gyopos have basic proficiency in Korean, true native proficiency is more rare than one might think (a fact that can sting them when they are expected to be able to converse like a native). "There are plenty of Gyopos, so learning Korean is not worth it," seems more than questionable.

For now, Japanese is probably more lucrative than Korean, but that may well not hold steady. Moreover, even if it does, that does not make Korean a waste, especially if one does not have the opportunity to live in Japan.
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IPayInCash



Joined: 27 Jul 2013
Location: Away from all my board stalkers :)

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

10 years to learn Korean?

I don't believe that at all. I've met people who were fluent in half that time.

but keep in mind (for an adult...in the overwhelming majority of cases) learning a language takes a LONG time: years and years and years. Ten years is a good estimate.

Again, I disagree with this completely. I've met some foreigners and for some it took them a few years to be fluent for others it took a lot more. Everyone is different. The "Overwhelming majority" taking 10 years is BS.
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those people may have claimed fluency but I would bet any money they were not. Also, I would bet any money their Korean wasn't good enough to be court translator certified.
http://nojeokhill.koreanconsulting.com/2010/06/a-realistic-answer-to-how-did-you-get-so-fluent-in-korean-part-1-of-5.html
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IPayInCash



Joined: 27 Jul 2013
Location: Away from all my board stalkers :)

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koreans told me their Korean was pretty much perfect.

So you'd be out a lot of money. Laughing

Oh yea... I also met plenty of foreigners that speak Japanese when I lived in Japan. And that should be even more believable since Japanese is a HELL of a lot easier than Korean. They also became fluent in only a few years.

Again, 10 years to become fluent is silly.
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Koreans weren't just being polite/showing good manners? I get told my Korean ability is so good all the time (but it sucks to the point of me not being able to understand the conversations of others or be able to partake meaningfully in them).
http://www.koreaninkuwait.com/2010/how-to-learn-korean/
Quote:
Foreigners who have emigrated to Korea and engaged the language in a serious fashion generally report that it takes something on the order of fifteen years in the country before they feel truly 100% at home in it. So, do not berate yourself if after ten years of study you still cannot effortlessly read a novel; this is normal and to be expected.

Korean is a damn hard language.
And so is any language (for the overwhelming majority of adults). But Korean is especially hard. Have you not heard the thing about children being better at language learning than adults?


Last edited by World Traveler on Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say most gyopos born outside of Korea don't have native-like fluency. A lot of those boys & girls in those k-pop bands are actually American, and Koreans can tell right away if their accent isn't quite there. Just like how we can tell if a person isn't a first-language English speaker.
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. But many Koreans send their children to the U.S. for a free education there in the public school. Those kids grow up speaking perfect English and perfect Korean (because they are learning as children). In 2006, 30,000 Korean kids were attending American public schools for the sole purpose of learning English in elementary and middle schools alone. That's just the U.S. Quite a few went to Australia, England, and Canada too (and the Philippines too) I am guessing.

And another thing about your comment, even if the gypos' Korean isn't perfect, it's a hell of a lot better than any whitey's Korean. There is a reason Chinese, Japanese, and Arabic translators are being paid more. That reason is supply and demand. There is a huge Korean diaspora in the U.S., and on top of this no other country sends its kids overseas to study English in the numbers Korea does. Korean-English is not a high paying niche language combination. Not anymore.
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

World Traveler wrote:
Those kids grow up speaking perfect English and perfect Korean (because they are learning as children).

Ever talk to one of these kids? Granted, they are good at English, but they aren't native-like. Some come pretty damn close to sounding like first-language english but you still know they aren't.
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That depends on how early they started their full immersive English education. If they started in first grade of elementary, then they will be damn good. Even if they start later than that, they will still be amazing. Take 'fermentation' for example. He lived in the U.S. for a while (as a kid), and now his English is so good it is pretty much native level. Can you even tell from his writing he is a Korean citizen?
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

World Traveler wrote:
That depends on how early they started their full immersive English education. If they started in first grade of elementary, then they will be damn good. Even if they start later than that, they will still be amazing. Take 'fermentation' for example. He lived in the U.S. for a while (as a kid), and now his English is so good it is pretty much native level. Can you even tell from his writing he is a Korean citizen?

On the other side, how's his Korean? Writing is one thing, actual speaking... When'd fermentation come back? I'm sure he's strong in both, but usually one is stronger than the other.

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing that there aren't enough competent translators in Korea. I'm sure Korea has more than enough, and the bad translations are just due to companies being cheap and going with some guy who claims to know English.
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
If there are really so many perfectly bilingual Koreans around, then why are Korean --> English translations so frequently terrible? Why are English language services in Korea so frequently awkward? The answer, I think, is that the number of genuinely bilingual Koreans is being over-estimated. Many Koreans have very basic proficiency in English, but few have anywhere near native competency. Likewise, while some Gyopos have basic proficiency in Korean, true native proficiency is more rare than one might think (a fact that can sting them when they are expected to be able to converse like a native). "There are plenty of Gyopos, so learning Korean is not worth it," seems more than questionable.

For now, Japanese is probably more lucrative than Korean, but that may well not hold steady. Moreover, even if it does, that does not make Korean a waste, especially if one does not have the opportunity to live in Japan.


Not all people who are bilingual can be translators, even if they are highly fluent in both languages. To be a translator, one must also have a greater knowledge of both languages and an understanding of linguistics.

Although many claim to be translators, few are certified as such. Becoming a certified translator isn't easy. Many people fail the exam, even some who've majored in translation at university.
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IPayInCash wrote:
10 years to learn Korean?

I don't believe that at all. I've met people who were fluent in half that time.

but keep in mind (for an adult...in the overwhelming majority of cases) learning a language takes a LONG time: years and years and years. Ten years is a good estimate.

Again, I disagree with this completely. I've met some foreigners and for some it took them a few years to be fluent for others it took a lot more. Everyone is different. The "Overwhelming majority" taking 10 years is BS.


I knew a guy who was fluent in Korean after only 9 months here (first time my wife heard him speak, she thought he was Korean). He also spoke English fluently. His first language was Nepali.
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RangerMcGreggor



Joined: 12 Jan 2011
Location: Somewhere in Korea

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

12ax7 wrote:
Fox wrote:
If there are really so many perfectly bilingual Koreans around, then why are Korean --> English translations so frequently terrible? Why are English language services in Korea so frequently awkward? The answer, I think, is that the number of genuinely bilingual Koreans is being over-estimated. Many Koreans have very basic proficiency in English, but few have anywhere near native competency. Likewise, while some Gyopos have basic proficiency in Korean, true native proficiency is more rare than one might think (a fact that can sting them when they are expected to be able to converse like a native). "There are plenty of Gyopos, so learning Korean is not worth it," seems more than questionable.

For now, Japanese is probably more lucrative than Korean, but that may well not hold steady. Moreover, even if it does, that does not make Korean a waste, especially if one does not have the opportunity to live in Japan.


Not all people who are bilingual can be translators, even if they are highly fluent in both languages. To be a translator, one must also have a greater knowledge of both languages and an understanding of linguistics.

Although many claim to be translators, few are certified as such. Becoming a certified translator isn't easy. Many people fail the exam, even some who've majored in translation at university.


Not to mention great people skills and the ability to react on the spot. Alot of times, a literal translation won't work because either (a.) There is no accurate equivalent in the other language or (b.) One person is a douche and you have to BS on the translation to sound nicer.

Remember that scene in Game of Thrones with the slave master saying nasty things to Daery, and his translator had to make it "nicer?" Apparently, that happens more than people think
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RangerMcGreggor wrote:
12ax7 wrote:
Fox wrote:
If there are really so many perfectly bilingual Koreans around, then why are Korean --> English translations so frequently terrible? Why are English language services in Korea so frequently awkward? The answer, I think, is that the number of genuinely bilingual Koreans is being over-estimated. Many Koreans have very basic proficiency in English, but few have anywhere near native competency. Likewise, while some Gyopos have basic proficiency in Korean, true native proficiency is more rare than one might think (a fact that can sting them when they are expected to be able to converse like a native). "There are plenty of Gyopos, so learning Korean is not worth it," seems more than questionable.

For now, Japanese is probably more lucrative than Korean, but that may well not hold steady. Moreover, even if it does, that does not make Korean a waste, especially if one does not have the opportunity to live in Japan.


Not all people who are bilingual can be translators, even if they are highly fluent in both languages. To be a translator, one must also have a greater knowledge of both languages and an understanding of linguistics.

Although many claim to be translators, few are certified as such. Becoming a certified translator isn't easy. Many people fail the exam, even some who've majored in translation at university.


Not to mention great people skills and the ability to react on the spot. Alot of times, a literal translation won't work because either (a.) There is no accurate equivalent in the other language or (b.) One person is a douche and you have to BS on the translation to sound nicer.

Remember that scene in Game of Thrones with the slave master saying nasty things to Daery, and his translator had to make it "nicer?" Apparently, that happens more than people think


That's not translating. It's interpreting, which is even harder than translating.
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