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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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meangradin
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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 Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:05 am Post subject: |
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Yes, I do work at our school.
We opened our school with very specific goals in mind. We wanted to provide a quality education to middle class kids. We picked our school location then moved to that neighborhood so that we could be part of the community. Everyday, we see our kids (students) and their parents. We charge less than we can legally, but our vision was to not place too big of a burden on the parents. But don't labor under a misconception, we still make what I think of as a lot of money. In fact, i think we have one of the most profitable schools around. Our total costs with taxes are under 20% of our gross income. I know of other foreign owned schools that make much more than us, but they also charge much more. But like i said, we dont want to place an unfair burden on parents. We have increased our class sizes from 8 to 10 students, but we haven't raised our prices. We were full with 8 kids per class and we are full with 10. We've been this way for almost 5 years now.
As I mentioned earlier, I think small schools that are run by their owners have the best chance of succeeding. The key is to not try and be too big. If you don't know the name of every student then you are too big. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| meangradin wrote: |
Yes, I do work at our school.
We opened our school with very specific goals in mind. We wanted to provide a quality education to middle class kids. We picked our school location then moved to that neighborhood so that we could be part of the community. Everyday, we see our kids (students) and their parents. We charge less than we can legally, but our vision was to not place too big of a burden on the parents. But don't labor under a misconception, we still make what I think of as a lot of money. In fact, i think we have one of the most profitable schools around. Our total costs with taxes are under 20% of our gross income. I know of other foreign owned schools that make much more than us, but they also charge much more. But like i said, we dont want to place an unfair burden on parents. We have increased our class sizes from 8 to 10 students, but we haven't raised our prices. We were full with 8 kids per class and we are full with 10. We've been this way for almost 5 years now.
As I mentioned earlier, I think small schools that are run by their owners have the best chance of succeeding. The key is to not try and be too big. If you don't know the name of every student then you are too big. |
Makes sense. Guess there's still room for gwoth if you know your stuff and work hard.  |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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...and have the F-visa (the god visa).
Weigookin74, you should marry a Korean woman. |
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poetryfoot
Joined: 16 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Wow, all this info is very helpful. What do you guys think that the job market will be like in 5 years? (just curious) Did you guys want to come over for year, or did you want to stay in Korea indefinitely? |
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mayorhaggar
Joined: 01 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| poetryfoot wrote: |
| Wow, all this info is very helpful. What do you guys think that the job market will be like in 5 years? (just curious) |
Depends on how much more the government cuts back on public school NET positions. SMOE, GEPIK and Busan have made a lot of position cuts, like Busan (IIRC) eliminating everything above elementary. The Korean governmental decision making process is pretty unpredictable so I don't think you can really predict anything other than a few last-minute surprises here and there for teachers expecting to renew. I think positions in more rural or poorer provinces will be shielded more (as they already have been) because the level of KET's is often so low. But maybe they would expand the (lower-paid and less permanent) TALK program to replace some rural-ish EPIK positions. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
...and have the F-visa (the god visa).
Weigookin74, you should marry a Korean woman. |
Yeah, I need to as I've been here long enough. Girls like me fine, but I don't want to get married with kids till I'm completely debt free. That day will come, soon..... |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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Year 2002 - 6000 NETs on E2s. 10,000 jobs available but the economy was booming in the States so jobs went vacant.
2006 NETs in PS jobs jumped dramatically with numbers peaking in 2008 at about 30,000.
Numbers have leveled off at about 22,000 (still just about 4x the number of jobs that were here back in 2002).
EFL as an industry in the East/SE Asian region is an overall growth industry and currently absorbs about 200,000 NETs each year.
One big factor to keep in mind is to NOT look at the base salary but look at the package as a whole in terms of quality of life and SAVINGS at the end of the year.
A person earning 2.1m KRW + (typical shoebox) housing and airfare in Korea will save about $10k per year.
A person in China earning 10k RMB + housing, airfare and other benefits will still save about the same ($10k) and have access to cheap transportation throughout the region and more holiday time.
A person in Thailand earning 45k THB can enjoy a 3-bedroom house, 10-12 weeks of paid vacation and still save US$10k.
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| mayorhaggar wrote: |
| poetryfoot wrote: |
| Wow, all this info is very helpful. What do you guys think that the job market will be like in 5 years? (just curious) |
Depends on how much more the government cuts back on public school NET positions. SMOE, GEPIK and Busan have made a lot of position cuts, like Busan (IIRC) eliminating everything above elementary. The Korean governmental decision making process is pretty unpredictable so I don't think you can really predict anything other than a few last-minute surprises here and there for teachers expecting to renew. I think positions in more rural or poorer provinces will be shielded more (as they already have been) because the level of KET's is often so low. But maybe they would expand the (lower-paid and less permanent) TALK program to replace some rural-ish EPIK positions. |
I'd say it depends more on the economy. If America gets back to booming and Korea gets back to exporting to her like before, there will be more money flowing through Korea and more tax revenue for the government. Before the crash, there was money flowing through the system from both parents and the government. If the recovery happens during the next year or two, then Korea may have a few good years left in her.
Cuts have stabilized as mothers still want a waygook for little Min Su. When mothers stop wanting us is when we're in trouble. Government rules on Hakwons combined with the sluggish economy has had an impact on the hakwon market. But a recovery means the black market will surge if the government interferes too much. Right now, the black market is sluggish too.
Public schools have stabilized and I haven't heard any further talk of cuts for over a year or more now. I think GEPIK is the worst paying followed by SMOE, followed by Metro Cities under EPIK starting with Busan. Provincial and rural EPIK pays the best and if you stay put, you can accumulate raises over time.
I have seen some Hakwons offering somewhat higher wages than a couple of years ago. But, not what we'd like to fight inflation. I did some call center work a couple of summers about a decade ago while in university making 11 to 13 an hour (Minimum wage was 7.50 an hour) and now these same employers are paying 11 to 13 an hour (Minimum wage is 10 an hour). Living costs were cheaper then.
I think the whole economy except for a few bright areas or spots are hurting and supply and demand will continue to affect wages. But even if there is a type of recovery, will it be exactly like pre-2009? I doubt it. But even if there is more money flowing through, it's important to realize Korea's ride will eventually come to a more permanent stop. I'm guessing sometime in the next decade if the recovery is swift in the next couple of years. We'll see. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
...and have the F-visa (the god visa).
Weigookin74, you should marry a Korean woman. |
Any other qualifications are nothing else but paintings on the wall, right?
pfft |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Juregen, the F-visa is a HUGE advantage. Some people get offended when I say that, but it is true nonetheless. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: How much has the job market been influenced by recession |
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| poetryfoot wrote: |
| I see on the forums here that the market is flooded with teachers and hagwons and schools are being pickier (?) and more tight fisted it seems.... |
The market is flooded not just because increased awareness of ESL in Korea means more people are coming here (coupled with deep cuts to public school positions), but because hagwon enrollment is way down. Parents aren't sending their kids to hagwons (and English villages) like they used to. (Instead, they are sending their kids to the Philippines or having them self study at home.)
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The Gyeonggi English villages began in 2004 when the first was set up in Ansan to give Gyeonggi residents an opportunity to study English language and culture in an immersion program. The Paju village opened in 2006, Yangpyeong in 2008.
But the villages have dwindled steadily in popularity in recent years and have been plagued with operating deficits. |
I read hagwon enrollment has been steadily declining since 2009. Are you surprised? I'm not. Hagwons are sketchy and expensive. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
...and have the F-visa (the god visa).
Weigookin74, you should marry a Korean woman. |
Yeah, I need to as I've been here long enough. Girls like me fine, but I don't want to get married with kids till I'm completely debt free. That day will come, soon..... |
One thing to remember: marriage often equals dual income nowadays. Just don't get all crazy and start having daughter after daughter just because you want a son like so many people do here. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Juregen, the F-visa is a HUGE advantage. Some people get offended when I say that, but it is true nonetheless. |
Of course it is, mainly because Immigration can't stick their noses in your personal and professional life anymore. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:36 am Post subject: Re: How much has the job market been influenced by recession |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| poetryfoot wrote: |
| I see on the forums here that the market is flooded with teachers and hagwons and schools are being pickier (?) and more tight fisted it seems.... |
The market is flooded not just because increased awareness of ESL in Korea means more people are coming here (coupled with deep cuts to public school positions), but because hagwon enrollment is way down. Parents aren't sending their kids to hagwons (and English villages) like they used to. (Instead, they are sending their kids to the Philippines or having them self study at home.)
| Quote: |
The Gyeonggi English villages began in 2004 when the first was set up in Ansan to give Gyeonggi residents an opportunity to study English language and culture in an immersion program. The Paju village opened in 2006, Yangpyeong in 2008.
But the villages have dwindled steadily in popularity in recent years and have been plagued with operating deficits. |
I read hagwon enrollment has been steadily declining since 2009. Are you surprised? I'm not. Hagwons are sketchy and expensive. |
Bah, when I first came here there were about 12 teachers (hagwon, EPIK and university) in my town. Now there's gotta be close to 100. I've seen the ups and downs of the job market, mostly ups. If anything happens, teachers who leave won't be replaced. That's all. Given the transient nature of the typical foreign ESL teacher here, I don't see that being a problem. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:35 am Post subject: Re: How much has the job market been influenced by recession |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| poetryfoot wrote: |
| I see on the forums here that the market is flooded with teachers and hagwons and schools are being pickier (?) and more tight fisted it seems.... |
The market is flooded not just because increased awareness of ESL in Korea means more people are coming here (coupled with deep cuts to public school positions), but because hagwon enrollment is way down. Parents aren't sending their kids to hagwons (and English villages) like they used to. (Instead, they are sending their kids to the Philippines or having them self study at home.)
| Quote: |
The Gyeonggi English villages began in 2004 when the first was set up in Ansan to give Gyeonggi residents an opportunity to study English language and culture in an immersion program. The Paju village opened in 2006, Yangpyeong in 2008.
But the villages have dwindled steadily in popularity in recent years and have been plagued with operating deficits. |
I read hagwon enrollment has been steadily declining since 2009. Are you surprised? I'm not. Hagwons are sketchy and expensive. |
It seems that total hogwan enrollment is down with each student attending fewer total hogwans. Many students used to go to 5 to 8 different hogwans each week, but now they typically go to only 2 or 3. However, the number of students attending English hogwans doesn't seem to have been affected by this and the number of foreign English teachers at hogwans seems to me to be level or growing slightly. I'd be interested to see the actual numbers from Immigration for 2012 and 2013. |
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