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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| Race-based slavery is not worse than class-based slavery. Let's not use myths created specifically to promote white guilt as foundational principles of our argumentation. |
Actually, I think they are. If both systems have equally bad laws in terms of slave rights, but one system adds an additional set of punishments and threats based solely on race, then that is worse.
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| But I think its pretty safe to say they would if they could have. Just as ANY country would. |
Woulda, coulda, shoulda. The fact is that they didn't.
Perhaps if they were closer to the Mediterranean and that circle of trade, they might have done more. Who knows?
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| Koreans have always seemed to do the right thing...according to SR. |
And Koreans always seem to be doing the wrong thing according to some posters here.
Let's have a standard- Contributions, both positive and negative, to the world. That's where we were at.
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| Shakespeare and Sir Paul stand apart from any political or social ill you wish to lay at England's feet. |
As Shakespeare was writing, England was beginning its process of immoral conquest against the indigenous peoples of the Americas. Shakespeare does not justify that.
You have to take the bad with the good.
Why can't you own it- We were great inventors and horrible human beings. Slavers. Barbarians.
Koreans were lacking in innovation, but they did not turn to conquest as a solution to their problems.
And in the end, if Korean people haven't contributed anything, so what? How does that make them or their nation any less worthy of existence on this planet? Should this cause any fundamental change in their rights and existence as human beings?
It seems that some people are looking for some sort of superiority validation for this. Just focus on yourself- You had nothing to do with the inventions or crimes of the past, and neither do the Korean people now.
What do you want them to do? Start bowing down to you and your awesome Westerness? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Race-based slavery is not worse than class-based slavery. Let's not use myths created specifically to promote white guilt as foundational principles of our argumentation. |
Actually, I think they are. If both systems have equally bad laws in terms of slave rights, but one system adds an additional set of punishments and threats based solely on race, then that is worse. |
You are adding to your original declaration, such that it ceases to interact with my reply. What am I to say? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Race-based slavery is not worse than class-based slavery. Let's not use myths created specifically to promote white guilt as foundational principles of our argumentation. |
Actually, I think they are. If both systems have equally bad laws in terms of slave rights, but one system adds an additional set of punishments and threats based solely on race, then that is worse. |
You are adding to your original declaration, such that it ceases to interact with my reply. What am I to say? |
I thought that what I added was a given with race-based slavery. |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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Typical SR behavior. Take a thread, spin it around, slap it in the face, kick it in the shins, and send it in an unrelated direction. Just to remind people, this thread is "Koreans tend to be smart" not "Koreans trend to be moral." And even the comparison between Korea's history and that of Western imperial powers, it is really a non-starter. As someone noted above, geography dictated that Korea could not be an expansionist power - even if it dearly wanted to be one. We have no idea how it would have acted in different circumstances. So the line that "Korea never invented anything but it also never enslaved another country" approach is not only confused but irrelevant.
Last edited by Scorpion on Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Race-based slavery is not worse than class-based slavery. Let's not use myths created specifically to promote white guilt as foundational principles of our argumentation. |
Actually, I think they are. If both systems have equally bad laws in terms of slave rights, but one system adds an additional set of punishments and threats based solely on race, then that is worse.
| Quote: |
| But I think its pretty safe to say they would if they could have. Just as ANY country would. |
Woulda, coulda, shoulda. The fact is that they didn't.
Perhaps if they were closer to the Mediterranean and that circle of trade, they might have done more. Who knows?
| Quote: |
| Koreans have always seemed to do the right thing...according to SR. |
And Koreans always seem to be doing the wrong thing according to some posters here.
Let's have a standard- Contributions, both positive and negative, to the world. That's where we were at.
| Quote: |
| Shakespeare and Sir Paul stand apart from any political or social ill you wish to lay at England's feet. |
As Shakespeare was writing, England was beginning its process of immoral conquest against the indigenous peoples of the Americas. Shakespeare does not justify that.
You have to take the bad with the good.
Why can't you own it- We were great inventors and horrible human beings. Slavers. Barbarians.
Koreans were lacking in innovation, but they did not turn to conquest as a solution to their problems.
And in the end, if Korean people haven't contributed anything, so what? How does that make them or their nation any less worthy of existence on this planet? Should this cause any fundamental change in their rights and existence as human beings?
It seems that some people are looking for some sort of superiority validation for this. Just focus on yourself- You had nothing to do with the inventions or crimes of the past, and neither do the Korean people now.
What do you want them to do? Start bowing down to you and your awesome Westerness? |
Your arguments hold less water than a sunken Spanish Armada ship.
The connections you are attempting to make regarding Western culture don't exist. One has nothing to do with the other. So that's not where we're at, that's where you would like to go. But you can't get there logically.
As for Korea, you're attempting to credit them where no credit is due.
The rest of your post is babble. The thread is about IQ and what it does and doesn't signify, not superiority. |
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transmogrifier
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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While I agree that what Steely Dan is discussing is totally irrelevant, where were you guys earlier in the thread when people where suggesting that Koreans weren't smart because they aren't particularly good at comedy? That's no different.
Hell, I laughed my arse off at This Is the End on the weekend, but I make no claims for an impressive display of intelligence - the film-makers OR mine |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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While I agree that what Steely Dan is discussing is totally irrelevant, where were you guys earlier in the thread when people where suggesting that Koreans weren't smart because they aren't particularly good at comedy? That's no different.
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I don't see why judging a country's smartness by its comedy is any less valid than judging it on how well people can work out how many triangles there are in the picture, or whatever else they do in those IQ tests. They're just different ways of using your brain. |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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A sophisticated sense of humor can be an indicator of intelligence. A quick wit, deciphering jokes, and the ability to produce top notch comedy are not the be all and end all but they are factors of intelligence. The only reason I brought it up is because Korean comedy is so terrible.
If you met someone and he said the funniest thing in the world to him is videos of butts farting, you would think he is a dummy. (From the movie Idiocracy) |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Scorpion wrote: |
| geography dictated that Korea could not be an expansionist power - even if it dearly wanted to be one. |
Both Korea and UK are geographically isolated nations of about the same size and population.
I don't think geography has anything to do with it. Its that they never had any fresh blood. No new ideas, no inflow of different peoples or cultures. Total stagnation. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| transmogrifier wrote: |
While I agree that what Steely Dan is discussing is totally irrelevant, where were you guys earlier in the thread when people where suggesting that Koreans weren't smart because they aren't particularly good at comedy? That's no different.
Hell, I laughed my arse off at This Is the End on the weekend, but I make no claims for an impressive display of intelligence - the film-makers OR mine |
Since comedy is so culturally based, I'd agree that it's not a valid measurement of intelligence.
But arguing over what is mostly just a matter of taste, similar to the Korean food threads, is different that Steely Dan's over the top run-on contrast-comparison history (mystery) essays. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Since comedy is so culturally based, I'd agree that it's not a valid measurement of intelligence.
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So you're discounting all literature, well all arts, as a measurement as well? |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| Scorpion wrote: |
| geography dictated that Korea could not be an expansionist power - even if it dearly wanted to be one. |
Both Korea and UK are geographically isolated nations of about the same size and population.
I don't think geography has anything to do with it. Its that they never had any fresh blood. No new ideas, no inflow of different peoples or cultures. Total stagnation. |
Actually, geography dictated that Korea could not be expansionist. Whose territory were they going to seize? And their size forced them into a permant defensive pose. In Britain's case geography was an asset. As an island with a formidable navy it was very difficult to invade, allowing it the stability to develop its strength. It's unrivalled navy also let it expand overseas. Like with Japan, being an island was one on Britain's greatest assets. And once Scotland broke its old alliance with France, became Protestant, and united politically with England the latter's borders were secured. Only problem was Ireland, which was quickly dealt with.
I don't think there is a historian on the planet who thinks Britain's geographical location in Europe was a handicap. Ask Napolean what he thought about it. Ask Hitler.
There's good reason why England hasn't been successfully invaded in 800 years. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| So the line that "Korea never invented anything but it also never enslaved another country" approach is not only confused but irrelevant. |
Then so is the line about "Koreans have never contributed anything". It's about intelligence, not contributions.
So let's return our discussion to intelligence, IQ, and what the significance of those are.
| Quote: |
| I don't see why judging a country's smartness by its comedy is any less valid than judging it on how well people can work out how many triangles there are in the picture, or whatever else they do in those IQ tests. They're just different ways of using your brain. |
Because a fool can be amusing, but they are still a fool. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Because a fool can be amusing, but they are still a fool. |
Are you saying a fool can write a successful sit-com? I'd like to see you try |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Are you saying a fool can write a successful sit-com? I'd like to see you try |
Making people laugh and being able to rationally analyze problems are two separate things.
A smart person can be bad at comedy. A smart person can be good at comedy.
A funny person can be smart, but a funny person can also be dumb.
Therefore, it stands that comedy and smarts are not linked. Now, smart people can make better comedy, and can be funny because they are smart. |
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