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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:30 pm Post subject: Pope Francis: Catholic Church Is Too ‘Obsessed’ With ... |
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Abortion, Birth Control, And Gay Marriage.
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In one of the first lengthy interviews he has given since ascending to the papacy in March, Pope Francis said he believes the Catholic Church has grown too “obsessed” with social issues like abortion, birth control, and gay marriage. The pope’s statement is a sharp departure from many of the other leaders in the Church, who have recently been pressuring him to take a stronger stance on those issues.
“It is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time,” Pope Francis told an Italian outlet. “The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent.”
U.S. Catholic Bishops have been criticized for focusing almost exclusively on social issues — like advocating against marriage equality and fighting against Obamacare’s birth control benefit — at the expense of the Church’s other teachings on social justice issues.
But the leader of the Catholic Church said that the religion needs to “find a new balance” on the moral teachings that it prioritizes. “Otherwise, even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel,” the pope explained.
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When I suggested something not dissimilar, Titus said my objection was that the Pope was Catholic. Well, I guess he's not Catholic.
Seriously though, the Catholic Church has many good messages which even non-believers can benefit from hearing. It would be nice to hear more about them, and less about condoms. Gay marriage especially is silly for the church to pontificate about; the modern "serial divorce" marriage that exists in America already strongly diverges from Catholic ideals, so it's not as if letting gays get in on the action is going to spoil some otherwise pristine institution. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| This is obvious. Its sad how the Pope's embrace of Christianity's core teachings appear so shocking to some. |
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GF
Joined: 26 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| In the United States, Catholic laypeople tend to disagree with the stance that the Bishops have staked out on social issues. Most Catholics support marriage equality, and a full 82 percent of Catholics think birth control is morally acceptable. And 63 percent of Catholics support a woman’s right to choose and don’t favor overturning Roe v. Wade. |
His flock could do with more catechesis on these topics, not less. But if he still wants a change of pace, he could start by letting them know what a heretic is, and what kind of eternal reward their evil opinions will earn them. If he has any clear idea of it himself, that is. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:30 am Post subject: |
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The pope replies: “Yes, in this quest to seek and find God in all things there is still an area of uncertainty. There must be. If a person says that he met God with total certainty and is not touched by a margin of uncertainty, then this is not good. For me, this is an important key. If one has the answers to all the questions—that is the proof that God is not with him. It means that he is a false prophet using religion for himself. The great leaders of the people of God, like Moses, have always left room for doubt. You must leave room for the Lord, not for our certainties; we must be humble. Uncertainty is in every true discernment that is open to finding confirmation in spiritual consolation.
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“If the Christian is a restorationist, a legalist, if he wants everything clear and safe, then he will find nothing. Tradition and memory of the past must help us to have the courage to open up new areas to God. Those who today always look for disciplinarian solutions, those who long for an exaggerated doctrinal ‘security,’ those who stubbornly try to recover a past that no longer exists—they have a static and inward-directed view of things. In this way, faith becomes an ideology among other ideologies. I have a dogmatic certainty: God is in every person’s life. God is in everyone’s life. Even if the life of a person has been a disaster, even if it is destroyed by vices, drugs or anything else—God is in this person’s life. You can, you must try to seek God in every human life. Although the life of a person is a land full of thorns and weeds, there is always a space in which the good seed can grow. You have to trust God.” |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| It is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time |
Then don't. State the opinion firmly and be done with it.
Demanding that Catholicism "get with the times" serves as a wedge to destroy the church from within. Liberals practice entryism. You chip away from the inside and the, to use Marxist lingo, superstructure collapses from the outside. Catholics will be further divided between old and new, with the old (the base of actual believers) demoralized and marginalized.
Jim, a reactionary blogger, describes:
http://blog.jim.com/culture/the-last-pope.html
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In the first step of entryism, entryists enter the group, whether the Communist Party, the Republican Party, the Roman Catholic Church, the State Department, or whatever, claiming to agree with group beliefs and support group goals, while in fact supporting the progressive interpretation of group beliefs and supporting progressive goals incompatible with group goals.
In the next step of entryism, non entryists are removed from power, or destroyed by character assassination, (someone remembers being fondled as a child forty years ago, though he never mentioned it until recently) or destroyed physically by actual physical assassination.
In the next step of entryism, entryists are quietly in power, still purporting to agree with group beliefs and support group goals, while in fact supporting the progressive interpretation of group beliefs and supporting progressive goals incompatible with group goals. The organization officially pursues its original goals and officially adheres to its original beliefs, but not really. It starts to wither away.
In the next step, the organization officially and overtly supports the progressive interpretation of group beliefs and supports progressive goals.
In the final step, the organization disappears altogether, its assets and personnel fully absorbed into the Cathedral. The physical Vatican will become a tourist attraction, and the organizational Vatican will become a letterhead issued from the desk of a minor NGO minion, whose physical location and postal address will probably be rather close to Harvard. The letterhead, to the extent that it is used at all, will be used to directly support progressive goals, such as transexuality, higher taxes, open borders for the non working underclass, and gay marriage, without referring to the now forgotten reinterpretation of Roman Catholic goals.
At first it will not be that people realize that the papacy ended with Pope Benedict, but rather that they will forget that it supposedly continues, just as the Roman Empire in the west supposedly continued, until people forgot that it was supposedly continuing. Later, historians will wonder when it ended, and will set a date, and will set a last Pope, and that last Pope will have been Benedict. |
"The Cathedral" is insular reactionary language for global progressivism, anchored by foundations, media, universities and the bureaucracy. |
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GF
Joined: 26 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
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| The pope replies: “Yes, in this quest to seek and find God in all things there is still an area of uncertainty. There must be. If a person says that he met God with total certainty and is not touched by a margin of uncertainty, then this is not good. For me, this is an important key. If one has the answers to all the questions—that is the proof that God is not with him. It means that he is a false prophet using religion for himself. The great leaders of the people of God, like Moses, have always left room for doubt. You must leave room for the Lord, not for our certainties; we must be humble. Uncertainty is in every true discernment that is open to finding confirmation in spiritual consolation. |
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Leaving room for uncertainty with respect to oneself, to opinions, to the latest science, to personal spiritual experiences, to questions of prudence, etc., only makes sense. St. Paul tells us “not to be more wise than it behoveth to be wise, but to be wise unto sobriety”.
But uncertainty is not the proper attitude with respect to Catholic articles of belief, many of which are, as you know, defined infallibly.
Francis talks of answers. To have absolute certainty in answers which the Church has provided authoritatively can only be described as a pre-eminent virtue. The Baltimore Catechism, in common use in the US until Vatican II, was structured in a question and answer format, with clear and firm responses to headings like “Why did God make us?”, “What are some of the perfections of God?”, and “What are the chief spiritual works of mercy?” Traditionally speaking, the Church does not shy away from providing clear answers to life’s fundamental philosophical and existential questions.
The first spiritual work of mercy, by the way, is “to admonish the sinner.” The second is "to instruct the ignorant." Unfortunately for Francis, "to encourage the liberal" is nowhere to be found. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:45 am Post subject: ... |
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| I'm not religious, but...a Pope addressing the church's relevance instead of demanding the church's relevance? Cool. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:13 am Post subject: |
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