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How much has the job market been influenced by recession?
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poetryfoot



Joined: 16 Sep 2012

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, because of inflation and a lot of other factors, the enrollment is down and there are more NET's coming over...so do you think that mainly the "richer" kids get sent to English schools then? How important is it these days for (status, or other reasons) for Korean kids to "perfect" their English?
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Weigookin74



Joined: 26 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: How much has the job market been influenced by recession Reply with quote

World Traveler wrote:
poetryfoot wrote:
I see on the forums here that the market is flooded with teachers and hagwons and schools are being pickier (?) and more tight fisted it seems....

The market is flooded not just because increased awareness of ESL in Korea means more people are coming here (coupled with deep cuts to public school positions), but because hagwon enrollment is way down. Parents aren't sending their kids to hagwons (and English villages) like they used to. (Instead, they are sending their kids to the Philippines or having them self study at home.)
Quote:
The Gyeonggi English villages began in 2004 when the first was set up in Ansan to give Gyeonggi residents an opportunity to study English language and culture in an immersion program. The Paju village opened in 2006, Yangpyeong in 2008.

But the villages have dwindled steadily in popularity in recent years and have been plagued with operating deficits.

I read hagwon enrollment has been steadily declining since 2009. Are you surprised? I'm not. Hagwons are sketchy and expensive.


The same time that the bad economy hit Korea. Any coincidence?
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why then does hagwon enrollment keep declining as the world economy improves? Maybe it has to do with public schools upping the workload with unpaid summer camps, more after school classes, etc. Maybe parents are figuring out hagwons aren't the only way to learn English. Maybe there are many, many, many complex and non obvious factors. But there's nothing I can say to make you think otherwise.
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Bollocks



Joined: 12 Feb 2009

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does the F-visa mean you can stop with the health checks every year? Last time they drew blood the idiot nurse flicked the needle when she pulled out. I have a red mark on my arm and it still hurts a week later. I never wanted to punch someone more than that girl.
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Weigookin74



Joined: 26 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

World Traveler wrote:
Why then does hagwon enrollment keep declining as the world economy improves? Maybe it has to do with public schools upping the workload with unpaid summer camps, more after school classes, etc. Maybe parents are figuring out hagwons aren't the only way to learn English. Maybe there are many, many, many complex and non obvious factors. But there's nothing I can say to make you think otherwise.


IS it improving? The US unemployment rate must have gone back down to 4% then. Korea makes $$ by exporting. Reading anything about the Korean economy and having a conversation with Koreans will tell you the economy is bad here too. Koreans aren't awash in cash like they were before 2009.
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Weigookin74



Joined: 26 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:06 am    Post subject: Re: How much has the job market been influenced by recession Reply with quote

poetryfoot wrote:
I see on the forums here that the market is flooded with teachers and hagwons and schools are being pickier (?) and more tight fisted it seems....
I am so curious about the differences. I graduated in 2005 but I had college loans and some other debt and haven't been able to seriously think and feel comfortable about going until now (many years later). It seems like the English teacher job market has changed a lot in the last several years.

1.) Did this happen in 2008?

2.) What was it like before this, what is it like now? How much harder is it to get a decent job?

3.) What do you think the statistics of teachers is like now, like 10 jobs for every teacher back then, and now 10 teachers for every job (or not quite that?)

Thanks!


Um, isn't that why you come to Korea? To pay off loans, I mean? You probably would have been in a better financial position if you had of come over here than. I got here at the end of 2006. I had friends who got here in 2003 and 2004ish and they are all now debt free due to better exchange rates and cheaper living costs back then. (I wish I could go back in a time machine and kick my own butt for not getting here sooner.)
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poetryfoot



Joined: 16 Sep 2012

PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:14 pm    Post subject: Re: How much has the job market been influenced by recession Reply with quote

[/quote]

Um, isn't that why you come to Korea? To pay off loans, I mean? You probably would have been in a better financial position if you had of come over here than. I got here at the end of 2006. I had friends who got here in 2003 and 2004ish and they are all now debt free due to better exchange rates and cheaper living costs back then. (I wish I could go back in a time machine and kick my own butt for not getting here sooner.)[/quote]

Yeah, that's what I heard, but I guess I let my insecurity get the best of me. I wanted to go over without any loans and some cash saved up...it's going to take a couple more months, but almost done with that. I guess I just thought if something went wrong, then I would have cash to fall back on. It sounds like it's too bad you couldn't have come slightly sooner It's taken me longer than I thought....in some ways I wish I would have been able to come much sooner, like in 2005 or so....but I did really enjoy my job from 2005-2009 and made some great friends...but it sounds like it would have much smarter to come much sooner...I hope to come next year...who knows what South Korea will be like 5 years
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

poetryfoot wrote:
So, because of inflation and a lot of other factors, the enrollment is down and there are more NET's coming over...so do you think that mainly the "richer" kids get sent to English schools then? How important is it these days for (status, or other reasons) for Korean kids to "perfect" their English?


Part of it is status, but increasingly it is so that kids can study abroad. It's gotten pretty bad. It used to be that only secondary schools would pressure their students to perform up to a certain level with little or no care for their psychological well-being, but now it's gotten to the point that even elementary schools are playing that game. The government is responsible. It is fueling this by providing extra subsidies to elementary schools whose students' maintain a certain level of academic excellence. So, the gifted kids are pushed far too hard, and those who aren't as academically inclined are neglected and/or bullied by teachers who've lost sight of their responsibilities.
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Kimchieluver



Joined: 02 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not just the economy. It also has to do with the demographics. A lot of rural schools are closing and combining with other rural schools. There are simply not as many students as there was 2006ish. Hogwans are feeling the pinch. Many are starting illegal Kindy programs to make up for less students.
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kimchieluver wrote:
It's not just the economy. It also has to do with the demographics. A lot of rural schools are closing and combining with other rural schools. There are simply not as many students as there was 2006ish. Hogwans are feeling the pinch. Many are starting illegal Kindy programs to make up for less students.


The current number of E2 visas issued each year is several fold what it was when I first came here, so for me it's really not that big of a deal. I've seen hundreds of foreign English teachers come and go. I've long been accustomed to the transient nature of the job. Fact is, if one has experience, he or she will be vastly unaffected as jobs will disappear by attrition. They simply won't replace those who leave. People in the government programs might be transferred, and hagwon teachers may need to relocate, but that will be the extent of it.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

School dynamics are changing from larger hakwons to smaller ones. This is due to demographics but also to a slow switch in educational approach and to a modification in English testing for University entrance.
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ontheway



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen no evidence that enrollment at English hogwans has fallen. Other types of hogwans have seen declines, but the kids still need English - and government schools teach them nothing. What they've dropped are taekwondo, music and art classes, as well as cutting back on subject hogwans where they don't need help.

English hogwans are very competitive, so the poorer ones have faced declines, many of the chains with lower quality have had branches fail, but there are still new schools opening.

The overall quality level is rising due to small, high quality schools, class sizes are being reduced to improve learning, and good hogwans have stable or increasing enrollment. The number of foreign English teachers needed at hogwans seems to be steady or growing. The cutbacks have been concentrated in the government schools, some of the ill conceived English villages and the ineffective after school programs.
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WadRUG'naDoo



Joined: 15 Jun 2010
Location: Shanghai

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ontheway wrote:
I've seen no evidence that enrollment at English hogwans has fallen. Other types of hogwans have seen declines, but the kids still need English - and government schools teach them nothing. What they've dropped are taekwondo, music and art classes, as well as cutting back on subject hogwans where they don't need help.

English hogwans are very competitive, so the poorer ones have faced declines, many of the chains with lower quality have had branches fail, but there are still new schools opening.

The overall quality level is rising due to small, high quality schools, class sizes are being reduced to improve learning, and good hogwans have stable or increasing enrollment. The number of foreign English teachers needed at hogwans seems to be steady or growing. The cutbacks have been concentrated in the government schools, some of the ill conceived English villages and the ineffective after school programs.


Ha! Somewhere under the rainbow (your location).
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Weigookin74



Joined: 26 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:36 pm    Post subject: Re: How much has the job market been influenced by recession Reply with quote

poetryfoot wrote:


Um, isn't that why you come to Korea? To pay off loans, I mean? You probably would have been in a better financial position if you had of come over here than. I got here at the end of 2006. I had friends who got here in 2003 and 2004ish and they are all now debt free due to better exchange rates and cheaper living costs back then. (I wish I could go back in a time machine and kick my own butt for not getting here sooner.)[/quote]

Yeah, that's what I heard, but I guess I let my insecurity get the best of me. I wanted to go over without any loans and some cash saved up...it's going to take a couple more months, but almost done with that. I guess I just thought if something went wrong, then I would have cash to fall back on. It sounds like it's too bad you couldn't have come slightly sooner It's taken me longer than I thought....in some ways I wish I would have been able to come much sooner, like in 2005 or so....but I did really enjoy my job from 2005-2009 and made some great friends...but it sounds like it would have much smarter to come much sooner...I hope to come next year...who knows what South Korea will be like 5 years[/quote]

Interesting that you were able to pay it off from there. Good for you. I guess if I had of been able to; I probably never would have been here. But, that's eastern Canada. Economy always in the sewer no matter how much boom there is or bust there is in the rest of North America.
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poetryfoot



Joined: 16 Sep 2012

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, but it's taken so long Sad At least it feels like it. I can't wait to actually be able to SAVE some money and not be burdened by it. It's neat that the job market is still open for those who don't have tons (or any) teaching experience.
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