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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| I'd say attitudes towards women have a long way to catch up all over the world. |
Yes, if one looks at intentionally deceptive statistics, it really seems like men all over the world are monstrous rapists. The word "including" is a strong indicator of propaganda in circumstances like these; what really happens is that a questionnaire will ask you an innocuous question like, "Did you ever have intercourse with your girlfriend when she didn't feel like it?" or, "Did you ever have intercourse with your girlfriend while she was drunken?" and those who answer yes will be counted as rapists to inflate the figures.
In reality, the overwhelming majority of men have never raped a woman by any reasonable standard (no saying, "Come on, honey," after your girlfriend says she has a headache and then having sex with her after she says okay isn't rape, regardless of what some "woman's studies" professor might think of it), and the overwhelming majority of women have never been raped by similar reasonable standards. There is no rape epidemic in the west. There's also no rape epidemic in Korea. It's a crime which occasionally occurs, like many others. |
And on top of that, in large parts of Asia, women are culturally expected to feign resistance before sex. I wonder how they worded these questionnaires... |
"Did a woman ever scream in pain while you were having sex?"  |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| I'd say attitudes towards women have a long way to catch up all over the world. |
...In reality, the overwhelming majority of men have never raped a woman by any reasonable standard (no saying, "Come on, honey," after your girlfriend says she has a headache and then having sex with her after she says okay isn't rape... |
| Quote: |
| 43% of college men admit using coercive behavior to have sex, including ignoring a woman’s protest; using physical aggression; and forcing intercourse; 15% acknowledged they had committed acquaintance rape; 11% acknowledged using physical restraint to force a woman to have sex. |
I think the two phrases I bolded are QUITE different in scope.
Not to mention these are men responding...how many are going to consider that getting a woman to change her mind and say "okay" is rape?
Not that I am saying that these statistics are perfect...far from it. Statistics generally have an error margin and the more that the people publishing said statistic are also pushing an agenda, the wider the error margin is.
I was merely criticizing Mr. Julius' remark by showing that anyone can find any type of statistics to prove anything they want.
But to respond to your criticism . While it is undoubtedly true that these statistics are inflated are you saying that this is not a problem? (NOT an epidemic...a problem). |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| I'd say attitudes towards women have a long way to catch up all over the world. |
...In reality, the overwhelming majority of men have never raped a woman by any reasonable standard (no saying, "Come on, honey," after your girlfriend says she has a headache and then having sex with her after she says okay isn't rape... |
| Quote: |
| 43% of college men admit using coercive behavior to have sex, including ignoring a woman’s protest; using physical aggression; and forcing intercourse; 15% acknowledged they had committed acquaintance rape; 11% acknowledged using physical restraint to force a woman to have sex. |
I think the two phrases I bolded are QUITE different in scope. |
Yes, they are different in scope. What I'm pointing out is that by using the word "including," they can take one man who forces a woman against her objections, a hundred men who pester a woman a bit and get her to change her mind, and lump them all together while technically not "lying" in the process, because that group of 101 "rapists" really does include a fellow who ignored a woman's protest.
These people are not acting in good faith. You should not trust them, they have an agenda, and that agenda happens to involve demonizing you and people like you. It's not just that their statistics are imperfect, it's that they're imperfect by design, created so that politically-minded individuals can say things like, "Oh, you know 90% of all rapes go unreported, so of course we have to turn our universities into de facto sex crime tribunals where guilt is presumed!"
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| While it is undoubtedly true that these statistics are inflated are you saying that this is not a problem? (NOT an epidemic...a problem). |
Sure instances of actual rape are a problem, just like any other crime. Blowing the degree to which it's a problem out of proportion, however, is problematic in its own right, especially when it's done as part of a concerted campaign to demonize roughly half the population, especially in the context of higher education.
-edit: Why did I say "over half the population" when referring to men?
Last edited by Fox on Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| IPayInCash wrote: |
Women that CHOOSE to go to Inida despite all of the rapes and sexual assault that go on there get no sympathy from me. Like that idiot that got kidnapped in NK ignoring USs warnings then begging the USA to bail him out  |
So any person that CHOOSES to go to the US and gets shot gets no sympathy either? |
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Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| I'd say attitudes towards women have a long way to catch up all over the world. |
...In reality, the overwhelming majority of men have never raped a woman by any reasonable standard (no saying, "Come on, honey," after your girlfriend says she has a headache and then having sex with her after she says okay isn't rape... |
| Quote: |
| 43% of college men admit using coercive behavior to have sex, including ignoring a woman’s protest; using physical aggression; and forcing intercourse; 15% acknowledged they had committed acquaintance rape; 11% acknowledged using physical restraint to force a woman to have sex. |
I think the two phrases I bolded are QUITE different in scope. |
Yes, they are different in scope. What I'm pointing out is that by using the word "including," they can take one man who forces a woman against her objections, a hundred men who pester a woman a bit and get her to change her mind, and lump them all together while technically not "lying" in the process, because that group of 101 "rapists" really does include a fellow who ignored a woman's protest.
These people are not acting in good faith. You should not trust them, they have an agenda, and that agenda happens to involve demonizing you and people like you. It's not just that their statistics are imperfect, it's that they're imperfect by design, created so that politically-minded individuals can say things like, "Oh, you know 90% of all rapes go unreported, so of course we have to turn our universities into de facto sex crime tribunals where guilt is presumed!"
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| While it is undoubtedly true that these statistics are inflated are you saying that this is not a problem? (NOT an epidemic...a problem). |
Sure instances of actual rape are a problem, just like any other crime. Blowing the degree to which it's a problem out of proportion, however, is problematic in its own right, especially when it's done as part of a concerted campaign to demonize over half the population, especially in the context of higher education. |
But you're just making up these supposed add ons to the questions in order to discredit them. I don't see any proof that this was used in the survey provided.
I'm not disagreeing with you that surveys can be manipulated to get the answers you want, or even that special interest groups will over-state a problem. But there is no proof of what you are describing in what has been brought up. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
But you're just making up these supposed add ons to the questions in order to discredit them. I don't see any proof that this was used in the survey provided. |
I'm not "making them up," I'm drawing them from the previously mentioned Asia survey. I admit that I haven't read the details of the particular survey upon which these claims relied, but in my defense, I can't, because none of it is properly sourced; all I can do is turn to general practices, and those general practices are usually despicable, politically-driven recipes for propaganda.
Do you really believe that 60% of college men answered affirmatively to an open, direct question about their tendencies towards rape? That would mean that when we were at university, more men in each class were rapists than were non-rapists. Come on, this needs to be seriously pushed back against. Crap statistics like these should not be tossed around. |
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox, if there were a "Like" button on this site, I'd hit it for every post you've made in this thread. |
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