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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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 Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Why are you even engaged in this silly conversation when you know as well as I do that their answer is going to be faith, it's the whole corner stone of the thing. You are essentially arguing a moot point and you know it. That you think that the bible is incompetently written is weird though, I've never heard that kind of strange line of reasoning before. |
No worries. These threads disappearing is what makes these conversations even sillier.
I am not arguing a moot point. I am just not remaining silent while certain posters push an agenda. |
What happens when an unstoppable force meets an unmovable object, what happens when a religious person debates an atheist... |
What?
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I take it you never had to do analogies for school, I'll give a hint you said you weren't making a moot point, I provided you with two seemingly random images, now as you ponder how they are related you should be able to figure out what I mean. |
Thanks for the hint. I will repay you with one.
I was joking...in reference to your previous link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2msQwpzatQc |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Why are you even engaged in this silly conversation when you know as well as I do that their answer is going to be faith, it's the whole corner stone of the thing. You are essentially arguing a moot point and you know it. That you think that the bible is incompetently written is weird though, I've never heard that kind of strange line of reasoning before. |
No worries. These threads disappearing is what makes these conversations even sillier.
I am not arguing a moot point. I am just not remaining silent while certain posters push an agenda. |
What happens when an unstoppable force meets an unmovable object, what happens when a religious person debates an atheist... |
What?
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I take it you never had to do analogies for school, I'll give a hint you said you weren't making a moot point, I provided you with two seemingly random images, now as you ponder how they are related you should be able to figure out what I mean. |
Thanks for the hint. I will repay you with one.
I was joking...in reference to your previous link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2msQwpzatQc |
Ok fair enough. |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Titus wrote: |
| Roll over? You're aware that there were two sides, each battling it out? |
Yes, but what were followers of Jesus, a person who taught people to love their enemies, doing travelling a thousand miles to engage in avoidable conflict? Is that doing unto others what you would have done unto you? No, it isn't. Ask yourself this question: "Who would Jesus have massacred?" It's inconceivable that he would have had anyone massacred. He said to pray for your persecutors, and forgive people a thousand times over. And something about those who live by the sword dying by the sword. Even up on the cross he said, "Father, forgive them." He emphatically did not say, "Father prepare an army to avenge my death and reign anihilation down on the heathens. Killl them all." That emphatically is not the message of Jesus found in the gospels.
Islam was born in war. It has never claimed to have pacifict roots, or shown any disinclination to spread its word by the sword. Christianity is not Islam, and it has a pacifist at the core of its faith. That Christianity got perverted over the centuries is nowhere more clearly seen than in the crusades. Massacring infedels was not Jesus' message. Unfortunately it did become the doctrine of the Roman Catholic hierarchy that GF so elevates. And that's when Christianity lost its soul.
The Reformation didn't happen for nothing. And although its true that Luther could, on occasion, be as savage as any cardinal, there were many craving a return to primitive Christianity. To the teachings of Jesus. That longing gave us the anabaptist movement, whose adherents to this day would never dream of assaulting another person - never mind engaging in ethnic cleansing. Those are the people you see on the news going to jail rather than engage in violence against other human beings.
One last question. If Jesus had 'returned' to earth in 1099 and appeared over Jerusalem to witness the crusaders slaughter the entire population of the city, including thrusting swords through the belly of pregnant women , how would he have reacted? Think about it. Only sick minds, or those whose Christianity is so warped and twisted by centuries of self-serving apologetics can imagine that he would have approved. |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| GF wrote: |
| To summarize, the aims of all the crusades were to preserve the accustomed right of Christians to make pilgrimages to the Holy Land, to save relics and holy sites in Jerusalem from profanation, and to protect eastern Christendom from Muslim invasions. It is impossible not to see these as just wars. |
No such accustomed rights werre advocated by Jesus. He had no interest in shrines or relics. There is nothing more 'profane' than Christians engaging in ethnic cleansing. The popes had no interest in protecting eastern Christians. In fact, due to sectarian indoctrination against eastern Christians they massacred them wherever they encountered them en route to Jerusalem. They also massacred thousands of European Jewish civilians for practice. And they weren't anywhere near the holy sites. They were indoctrinated with religious hatred for the 'religious other' and acted accordingly. When they got to Jerusalem, and were within striking distance of 'holy shrines' (which Jesus didn't give a toss about) that hatred boiled over into an animalistic fury. Not exactly what he was all about.
It is impossible for anyone, especially persons who call themselves followers of Jesus, to see these as 'just wars'. Because if these were just wars, as defined by Catholic apologetics, them I'm not surprised the world is in the state it's in. You just can't blame it on a simple peasant who lived 2000 years ago and taught love, forgiveness and compassion for others.
You just can't. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| What happens when an unstoppable force meets an unmovable object, what happens when a religious person debates an atheist... |
It has very little to do with differences in belief, and almost everything to do with maturity, both of thought - to know where reasoned defense of your own beliefs ends and logical persuasion of the other begins, and to recognize and accept legitimate criticism where it exists - and of character - to approach the subject with the seriousness it deserves and not resort to petty mockery and points-scoring. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| What happens when an unstoppable force meets an unmovable object, what happens when a religious person debates an atheist... |
It has very little to do with differences in belief, and almost everything to do with maturity, both of thought - to know where reasoned defense of your own beliefs ends and logical persuasion of the other begins, and to recognize and accept legitimate criticism where it exists - and of character - to approach the subject with the seriousness it deserves and not resort to petty mockery and points-scoring. |
Yes, but you are describing something very rare I think. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Which part? |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Which part? |
[quote="Leon"]
| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| What happens when an unstoppable force meets an unmovable object, what happens when a religious person debates an atheist... |
It has very little to do with differences in belief, and almost everything to do with maturity, both of thought - to know where reasoned defense of your own beliefs ends and logical persuasion of the other begins, and to recognize and accept legitimate criticism where it exists - and of character - to approach the subject with the seriousness it deserves and not resort to petty mockery and points-scoring. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Ah, well yes, this topic is a powerful lure for the immature. |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| Scorpion wrote: |
| Titus wrote: |
| Roll over? You're aware that there were two sides, each battling it out? |
Yes, but what were followers of Jesus, a person who taught people to love their enemies, doing travelling a thousand miles to engage in avoidable conflict? |
avoidable? Conflict with muslims isn't avoidable. |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| GF wrote: |
| I have responded to the child abuse three or four times on this forum; I recognize the deep fault of the churchmen on that one, but I think the situation is exaggerated by an anti-catholic media and public hungry for scandal. From what I have read, public school teachers, protestant ministers, and UN workers all abuse children at higher rates than Catholic priests, yet we don't hear about them as often. |
LOL.
The reason you "don't hear about them as often" is because there's no evidence for it. You're just making stuff up to make the RCC look not as bad. "Look, everybody is doing it - even those lefties over at the UN." Do you think CNN or any other station would decide not to run with such stories if they were indeed true? You don't hear about these situations on the same scale in Protestant denominations because they don't happen. This is a problem exciusive to one Christian denomination alone - the Roman Catholic Church. And the hierarchy supposedly placed on earth by your deity, and allegedly guided by that deity, decided to cover the whole mess up rather than stop it. That's some heirarchy, some deity, and some guidance. |
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stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Scorpion wrote: |
| GF wrote: |
| I have responded to the child abuse three or four times on this forum; I recognize the deep fault of the churchmen on that one, but I think the situation is exaggerated by an anti-catholic media and public hungry for scandal. From what I have read, public school teachers, protestant ministers, and UN workers all abuse children at higher rates than Catholic priests, yet we don't hear about them as often. |
LOL.
The reason you "don't hear about them as often" is because there's no evidence for it. You're just making stuff up to make the RCC look not as bad. "Look, everybody is doing it - even those lefties over at the UN." Do you think CNN or any other station would decide not to run with such stories if they were indeed true? You don't hear about these situations on the same scale in Protestant denominations because they don't happen. This is a problem exciusive to one Christian denomination alone - the Roman Catholic Church. And the hierarchy supposedly placed on earth by your deity, and allegedly guided by that deity, decided to cover the whole mess up rather than stop it. That's some heirarchy, some deity, and some guidance. |
The cover ups by the RCC are notorious.
However, there is little doubt that the organizations of which you speak are all equal opportunity abusers. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| I suspect the push to legalize marijuana will result in a liberal victory in the next few years. Cory Booker is said to be working with Rand Paul on the issue. |
Marijuana legalization isn't simply a "liberal" position, Rand Paul's eager willingness to pursue it being indicator number one thereof. |
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