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EPIK orientation rules
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thisisausername



Joined: 28 May 2011

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralCali wrote:
thisisausername wrote:
Lucas wrote:
Quote:
It is unreasonable to make the teachers share a dorm.
It is unacceptable to give them a curfew.



Professional footballers on 250 grand a week have to share hotel rooms and have a curfew.


They also have to shower together naked.


As do the teachers who go to these things.


Oh, get off it. You share a room; you're not hopping in the shower together unless you want to.





The showers are communal at NIIED. If you receive your training there, yes you do have to shower with these people. This isn't an incredibly important thing (to me) but maybe some people would rather not go shower in public for a week.
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Malislamusrex



Joined: 01 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:06 am    Post subject: Re: Employment Reply with quote

So you are saying.... everyone else is going, but you are somehow special and don't want to share a facility with other people. If you are unhappy with what everyone else is doing, why don't you suggest paying for the extra expenses for an additional room and whatever special requests you may have. I'm sure of you are ready to splash out 1 million won you can get a red carpet. maybe another million won and you can get the staff to hang up a banner with your name on it.

thisisausername wrote:
michaelfehon wrote:
An organization paying money for your future services has the right to demand what the terms and conditions of this employment is. You are entitled to say no and refuse those conditions. Call it a mismatch of values if you want.


Absolutely. However my contract just says that I must attend orientation. I'm willing to do that. That clause of the contract doesn't give them free reign to demand anything they want of me while at orientation and claim a breach of contract if I don't follow it. I was unaware that they treated the participants like children when I signed the contract. The current rules are not something I'm willing to subject myself to. I'm compelled not to follow them out of self respect.

I'm not even saying that I necessarily want to go out after 10 or have a drink. That isn't the point at all. If these rules weren't in place I'd probably just have sucked it up and attended. And I would have been following the same procedure as these rules just on my own. I wouldn't have been going out getting drunk every night anyways. But I can't allow myself to be subjected to this level of servitude. I didn't sign up to teach at a North Korean school. I'm not gonna sit at the back of the bus just to make it easier this time.

I'm anxious to find out what the consequences will be. I'm going to very respectfully tell them that I am not going to attend. I really like my job and hope I don't get fired. It's gonna be an interesting week.
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maximmm wrote:
CentralCali wrote:


Now you're just trolling. You may call it a mere two million a month, but that's two million a month more than people get for not having a job. Agreeing to a paid orientation isn't selling yourself into slavery.


Ah - but often enough it's not paid at all, with teachers' contracts starting immediately after the orientation is finished.


EPIK orientation is paid. The unpaid orientation/training stunt is pulled by a number of shady hagweons.
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Waygeek



Joined: 27 Feb 2013

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:08 am    Post subject: Re: EPIK orientation rules Reply with quote

thisisausername wrote:
I've been teaching for many years but this is my first year at a public school in Korea. It's my understanding that at EPIK orientations you have to share a dorm room with a stranger, do humiliating things like wear hanbok and that a curfew and alcohol ban are in place. Because of this, I'm not ever going to go. I am not a slave and I have self respect.


lol.

Your stay in this country will be extremely short.

EDIT:

thisisausername wrote:
Lucas wrote:


OP, I dont think you'll need to worry about that!


They hire people with this level of maturity as teachers in this country. This is one of the biggest problems. Lucas, I'm not worried about sexual advances. I don't want to share a room with someone like you because of your horrible personality. I don't want to take a shower with you and catch athlete's foot. I don't want to listen to you snore. I don't want to listen to you talk. I'm possibly going to lose my job because that's how important staying away from people like you is to me.


I take that back. A clap for you sir. Laughing
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thisisausername



Joined: 28 May 2011

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:27 am    Post subject: Re: Employment Reply with quote

Malislamusrex wrote:
So you are saying.... everyone else is going, but you are somehow special and don't want to share a facility with other people. If you are unhappy with what everyone else is doing, why don't you suggest paying for the extra expenses for an additional room and whatever special requests you may have. I'm sure of you are ready to splash out 1 million won you can get a red carpet. maybe another million won and you can get the staff to hang up a banner with your name on it.


This is a pretty amazing lack of reading comphension on your part. You read what I wrote and thought I want special treatment and luxury? I've been saying over and over that all of the teachers should have some self respect and stop allowing themselves to be condescend to as children. As for the luxury part, you just made that up. A cot in a private room isn't my definition of luxury.

As to your suggestion of getting a hotel, I've read multiple accounts people saying that they were not allowed to do this. Even teachers who lived 10 mins away were told they had to stay at the center.
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Malislamusrex



Joined: 01 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:16 am    Post subject: Re: Employment Reply with quote

I agree with you the military, teachers at international schools, athletes and corporate workers etc etc etc are children because they have curfews and share rooms.

You should flat out refuse. It's completely unreasonable for you to follow your employers procedures.

thisisausername wrote:
Malislamusrex wrote:
So you are saying.... everyone else is going, but you are somehow special and don't want to share a facility with other people. If you are unhappy with what everyone else is doing, why don't you suggest paying for the extra expenses for an additional room and whatever special requests you may have. I'm sure of you are ready to splash out 1 million won you can get a red carpet. maybe another million won and you can get the staff to hang up a banner with your name on it.


This is a pretty amazing lack of reading comphension on your part. You read what I wrote and thought I want special treatment and luxury? I've been saying over and over that all of the teachers should have some self respect and stop allowing themselves to be condescend to as children. As for the luxury part, you just made that up. A cot in a private room isn't my definition of luxury.

As to your suggestion of getting a hotel, I've read multiple accounts people saying that they were not allowed to do this. Even teachers who lived 10 mins away were told they had to stay at the center.
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maximmm



Joined: 01 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralCali wrote:
maximmm wrote:
CentralCali wrote:


Now you're just trolling. You may call it a mere two million a month, but that's two million a month more than people get for not having a job. Agreeing to a paid orientation isn't selling yourself into slavery.


Ah - but often enough it's not paid at all, with teachers' contracts starting immediately after the orientation is finished.


EPIK orientation is paid. The unpaid orientation/training stunt is pulled by a number of shady hagweons.


No - you are wrong, but who am I to argue?

Essentially, it all comes down to the timing. Some people come to Korea, work for 6 months and then they are asked to attend orientation session - they get paid. Then there are people that come in August, go to orientation and start working immediately after the orientation - their contracts are written in such a way that they start after the orientation session.

I know that GEPIK has always paid (not sure about now though), but EPIK and other provinces? It all depends on the timing - they are all trying to save a bundle. I know this because this happened to me and other teachers - yes, we were working for EPIK.
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joeydonuts



Joined: 19 Nov 2012
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maximmm wrote:
CentralCali wrote:
maximmm wrote:
CentralCali wrote:


Now you're just trolling. You may call it a mere two million a month, but that's two million a month more than people get for not having a job. Agreeing to a paid orientation isn't selling yourself into slavery.


Ah - but often enough it's not paid at all, with teachers' contracts starting immediately after the orientation is finished.


EPIK orientation is paid. The unpaid orientation/training stunt is pulled by a number of shady hagweons.


No - you are wrong, but who am I to argue?

Essentially, it all comes down to the timing. Some people come to Korea, work for 6 months and then they are asked to attend orientation session - they get paid. Then there are people that come in August, go to orientation and start working immediately after the orientation - their contracts are written in such a way that they start after the orientation session.

I know that GEPIK has always paid (not sure about now though), but EPIK and other provinces? It all depends on the timing - they are all trying to save a bundle. I know this because this happened to me and other teachers - yes, we were working for EPIK.


In August 2007, my contract saw my employment beginning on the day my orientation started. I was paid for it. I supposed that's why I didn't mind putting up with some of their rules. - I was working for SMOE which I think is subsumed under EPIK now
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Weigookin74



Joined: 26 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suckers!! I had the joy of coming in the middle of the semester and not having to attend any of these things. I did several months later attend a weekend session of EPIK in Daejeon on a Friday night sharing a room with a guy. He lives in a neighboring town and is a decent guy. I did a month before that an overnight jaunt to the town I was actually living in with newly hired teachers in my province. In that case, they had 5 or 6 guys in each room where you slept on the floor. I just went to my own place and slept and met them the next morning.

I sure am glad I got to skip this that you speak of. But, in truth, I do stick up for myself. I'm guessing I'd suck it up for a few days in crappy orientation and then get to my town and do my own thing. Most places, you go to your school and they otherwise leave you alone. A few places, the local ed office constantly interferes and watches you like a hawk because they think foriegners are dirty and not to be trusted. Hope you don't get one of those rare gigs and get through it.

My advice just do it and get beyond it.
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Bobo Vette



Joined: 31 Dec 2012
Location: Busan

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will say first that the dorms are very clean and maybe not as bad as you think. Honestly, of all of the things I found demeaning and offensive about the EPIK orientation, staying in clean facilities with free internet and my meals provided were the least of my problems. The dorms are just a practicality of getting that many people together in one place, especially since these always take place at college campuses. My roommate was clean and polite and we respected each other's privacy. Pretty easy stuff there.

But on the whole, yeah, these things are indeed terrible. We are agreed in that. The few things you can actually learn about teaching will be lost on you since you've had experience. You already know the things I didn't know about Korea when I first arrived - that many foreigners here are completely inept and your job is BS. You don't need the orientation to teach you that like I did.

However, I will say that not *everyone* there is awful, so one big benefit is that you actually can make friends with the cream of the crop. I met several people I am perfectly happy never seeing ever again, but I also met a couple of folks that were really cool and are still my friends now. The week of idiocy and torture was worth it to meet those people.

And I will totally agree with the other posters that said this is a test more than anything. The Koreans are trying to see if you are going to be the piece of shit foreigner they think you are.

We drank after hours just fine, by the way - use your brain and the curfew and alcohol ban are not much to worry about. Again, they are just testing you. If you are dumb enough to get caught then you are probably too stupid to function in this country successfully.

If you wanna TLDR, I guess what I am trying to say is that it's not so bad that it's worth losing your job over. I hated it but it affected my life in Korea in such a small way that it was not something I look back on with shame or anger, just mild annoyance.
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Lucas



Joined: 11 Sep 2012

PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We drank after hours just fine, by the way - use your brain and the curfew and alcohol ban are not much to worry about. Again, they are just testing you. If you are dumb enough to get caught then you are probably too stupid to function in this country successfully.


Wait till you’re in your 11th month and they pull out CCTV footage of you drinking - grounds for dismissal (and no sev pay) Laughing
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recessiontime



Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my one year stay in Korea in 2008 the EPIK orientation turned out to be my worst experience. I got stuck with an asshole of a roommate that would blast music on his laptop despite the fact I was trying to sleep. He was also from Toronto like me but a complete dick to everyone he spoke to. He looked white but he was of Iranian descent. I came very close to confronting him physically about it. After a recorded discussion between him, me and some of the higher ups allowed me to switch room mates.

I don't think the orientation or the facilities were at fault, at the time I was just mad at how low the standards were for hiring some of these idiots. I wonder whether this moron is still teaching in Korea or if he's back in Canada, jobless and living with his parents. He told me that he moved to Korea because he didn't get along with his dad, go figure.
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

recessiontime wrote:
I don't think the orientation or the facilities were at fault, at the time I was just mad at how low the standards were for hiring some of these idiots.

Back then (in 2008) not many people knew about teaching in Korea (at least in the United States). There were more position openings than applicants, so everyone got hired, including crazy people. Now in 2013, anyone who is female and has a pulse is pretty much assured a public school job, but it's definitely not the case for everyone anymore.
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Plume D'ella Plumeria



Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Location: The Lost Horizon

PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True story:

At my one and only GEPIK "orientation," I got stuck into a roommate situation with a distturbo. She came and found me as I was innocently having a beer in the hotel restaurant with a couple of new found friends.

"I'll be your roommate," she said with a worrying gleam in her eye. I had already noticed her before that and how she seemed a bit off.

I was not happy over it but didn't want to cause a problem so I just accepted my sad fate for the next few days. And what a weird few days it was.

The next morning, that strange middle-aged woman sat on her bed which was in the open area of the living area, with her robe half undone and one sagging breast exposed and her flabby white belly there for anyone to see. She gave me a suggestive look.

I drew in a sharp breath, averted my eyes and hastened back to the bedroom which was my sole sleeping place. You can believe that I locked the door behind me rather quickly.

She took her revenge for my disinterest. Ms Sick then proceeded to leave the half digested contents of her large intestine, which resulted in somewhat shredded turds floating in the toilet, unflushed for me to discover in the morning.

I guess she was still menstruating because she then left bloody tampax everywhere ... floors, towels, you name it. The toilet was literally, a bloody mess. It was beyond disgusting.

I stayed well away from her and out of that room for the remainder of the days. The woman's name was Anna something-or-another. Really scary lady.

So, I can kind of see where the OP is coming from. There are some pretty wacky people out there. And on this forum too for that matter.
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are SO MANY freaks (crazy people) teaching in Korea. It really sickens and disgusts me.
sirius black wrote:
80% of us teachers are a bit off
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