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lowpo
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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I broke my leg back in August, so I have been in a wheel chair since then. When every I'm at the park, home or I'm at school I have to be in a wheel chair.
I don't know how many times I had to shout at someone before they walked right into my leg.
As we were leaving the hospital there was a lady walking toward me checking her bank book and I had to shout at her so she wouldn't walk into me. Then just a few minutes later two kids came with in inches of walking right into my leg.
Even when a Korean is trying to be helpful they will hit my leg or walk right in to it. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: So, an ajoshie bumped into me the other day and... |
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| rabidcake wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
| rabidcake wrote: |
| byrddogs wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
| Scorpion wrote: |
Ironically, at the same time K-pop boy is starting to yell, “Here is the Korea. Here is not your country.” |
Ah, this famous line. Deep down, this is what many of them believe anyway, they just don't say it until they get angry. To many of them, on a fundamental level, you are in the wrong just for being in their country. Yes, you can visit, but you aren't really supposed to be staying and trying to mix in.
This is also why a lot of long-termers turn out bitter and weird. Despite wanting to stay here, they can't seem to shake the nagging fact that in the end, foreigners on the whole are simply not welcome here. |
It's an especially nice touch when posters here use that, yet worded a little differently, as well. |
This is not true. |
What exactly is "not true" about it? I agree that Koreans can be very welcoming and generous and generally non-threatening, and will let people live here (especially temporarily), but the idea that foreigners generally don't belong here is hammered into most of them. Can't deny that part.
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| Korea is home to anyone who sees Korea as home and Koreans will respect that, but only if that's what you truly believe. |
Sounds a bit like Tinkerbell stuff to me. What we believe isn't all that relevant, as we are talking about attitudes of the locals. It's all well and good until there's a problem between you and one of the locals, then watch how fast they turn and the conversation turns to "FOREIGNER"! Yes, technically speaking, ANY place can be your home if you end up living there, but that says nothing of the local attitudes toward you.
| Quote: |
Korea is for anyone who wants to respect and be a part of Korea. |
Is it? I've actually never heard that from anyone. I wonder how common that sentiment is among the actual Koreans themselves.
And what does "respect" mean exactly? Not littering or spitting all over the place and SLAMMING INTO PEOPLE? Oh wait...
But I do agree in part. It's actually pretty good here, and a foreigner can live here comfortably in most cases. But as far as living here long term, I think the general sentiment is that we don't quite belong here and that affects the attitudes of the locals as far as how to treat us and where we fit in in terms of their hierarchy, which tends to be towards the bottom rung unfortunately.
I have seen some foreigners (Koreaboos maybe?) that are totally fluent, completely mix with Korean society, and that's great. But what happens when they see him with a Korean girl? Same basic reaction: "Grrrr.... why is she with the foreigner?"  And what happens when he tries to marry someone from an upscale family? Or, What happens when he wants to advance to the upper echelons of his company? Will it happen? Likely not. That prejudice will rear its head sooner or later. It's almost programmed into them. |
I disagree but that's just what I believe.
Of course you have to realize you will never be 100% local, but that doesn't mean you can't be accepted by a large community and have your own network and connections. You won't be accepted by everyone, but that's true for any place you live. I have seen many successful mixed couples, I have seen men marry higher scale families, and I have seen foreigners advance up pretty high in their companies and play big parts in management positions. It might be harder but it's definitely possible.
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Yes, of course ANYTHING is possible. There are always exceptions.
But the idea that just BELIEVING in your heart that you belong here means they will accept you is a bit farfetched. It's a very positive way to look at the world, but also not completely realistic and a bit too Tinkerbellish.
If one truly wanted to succeed here long term, probably the best way would be to use your positive outlook, but they also shouldn't be shocked when the more ugly nature of Korean society rears it head against the FOREIGNER. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| I've never had any problem at having been seen with a Korean woman. |
I rarely have problems either, and when I have, half the time it's been with gyopos oddly enough.
At most you'll get some stares or whispering, but rarely anything too confrontational. Often the girl will notice these things too, and may or may not mention it. The worst I got was two old men commented something about my gf being a "*beep* sucking foreign d**k". I didn't hear it but she did, and when she finally told me what was said, the men were long gone.
I've dated around quite a bit and if you really want to get a better view of how the men here view the women dating a foreigner, ask them what the men would think about it. One of the worst things I've heard was that one of her guy friends would mention that he wanted to puke every time he saw a Korean woman with a foreign man. There's also this idea that many of them hold that Korean women are supposed to be pure and respect herself, and dating a foreigner ruins this.
But back to BUMPING....
Has anyone gotten the passive-aggressive shoulder bump while they are holding a Korean girls hand? I have and it was pretty blatant. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| lowpo wrote: |
I broke my leg back in August, so I have been in a wheel chair since then. When every I'm at the park, home or I'm at school I have to be in a wheel chair.
I don't know how many times I had to shout at someone before they walked right into my leg.
As we were leaving the hospital there was a lady walking toward me checking her bank book and I had to shout at her so she wouldn't walk into me. Then just a few minutes later two kids came with in inches of walking right into my leg.
Even when a Korean is trying to be helpful they will hit my leg or walk right in to it. |
Bummer.
I was on crutches here for a couple weeks and can't remember how many times I got plowed into, almost re-spraining my ankle a couple of times.
Not to mention they would still pile into elevators and subways ahead of the guy on crutches, and of course nobody ever thought of holding a door. You can imagine my view on Koreans and manners after that experience. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
But back to BUMPING....
Has anyone gotten the passive-aggressive shoulder bump while they are holding a Korean girls hand? I have and it was pretty blatant. |
I don't really get that. To be honest, I get bumped tons while out and about by myself... but when I'm walking with my wife and child (all holding hands), people often steer clear.
This brings me to my next theory... they only bump certain ppl. Seeing kids checked, or old ladies pushed down - that's pretty rare. But everyone else in between, they're fair game.
To me, this differs a bit from the west. Where I'm from, it's obviously rude to bump anyone - old folks and kids especially. But another group ya don't bump - able people - especially if they look like wreckers.
I was walking with a couple of (K)bodybuilding buddies a few weeks back, and noticed they got bumped into as much as me. When I told them that usually in Canada, ppl steer clear of massive guys, the excitement in their eyes was obvious. lol |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: So, an ajoshie bumped into me the other day and... |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
"...every immigrant ever."  Yes, all their experiences in every country are exactly the same. A Swedish immigrant in Canada will have exactly the same experience as a Nigerian immigrant in Korea. Yup, no doubt. Buck up, you whining immigrants! And don't dare share your point of view on the matter! Here comes SR to show you the way! |
Dude, do you think its lollipops and tea for people who immigrate from Sweden into Canada? They face troubles and language barriers too, now they cope a lot better because they look like everyone else, but its not a walk in the park.
How about comparing say, Pakistani immigrants in say, the US and Korea. Both will talk about discrimination and dirty looks.
Throughout history, immigrants have dealt with racism and hostility, or even just minor inconveniences. Same with ethnic minorities. Most learn to deal with it and don't let it get in the way of things. Welcome to being a minority and an immigrant.
What do you want me to say? That oh that's so terrible and Korea is so much worse than anywhere else in the world and you have it extra terrible? That's patronizing and a pack of lies. Do you want some magic wand to be waved that will take away all these problems?
If you want to stay here and thrive, you are going to have to do what immigrants have done throughout time- Grind things out and work for your children's future.
Now, I do agree that people who might claim that its magic and cream puffs here are just as delusional. Things aren't going to be easy. Not everyone here will love you or even tolerate you.
That also doesn't meant that its all fire and brimstone and Korean lynch mobs. It doesn't mean that Korean society is "out to get you". It just means you are in immigrant.
Hey, be happy you aren't a Muslim immigrant in Switzerland or France. They tell you what you are allowed and not allowed to wear and have active political parties dedicated to making your life as miserable as possible. |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: So, an ajoshie bumped into me the other day and... |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Dude, do you think its lollipops and tea for people who immigrate from Sweden into Canada? They face troubles and language barriers too, now they cope a lot better because they look like everyone else, but its not a walk in the park. |
Didn't know that Canada was full of nordic types. Ever been to Toronto, Vancouver or any other major Canadian city? They're as multicultural as any American city. Probably more so. And if you think a Nigerian, Egyptian or Polish person is going to experience the same struggles, obstacles and barriers in Canada or the States that they do in Korea, well then your more delusional than I thought. I visited a friend in Canada a few months ago and what struck me were buses with adverts for immigration assistance on the side reading, "You belong in Canada." Now compare that to the kid yelling at the OP that he "doesn't belong here." The conversation didn't even have anything to do with immigration issues - the OP is, like the rest of us, just a contractual worker who will eventually leave - but with too many Koreans the "you don't belong here" impulse kicks in pretty fast in any disagreement with a foreigner. Canada is a thousand miles ahead of Korea in welcoming foreigners (hell, the word 'foreigner' is no longer even acceptable in civil discourse). In Korea they have a myriad number of ways to remind you that you are not only a foreigner, but an unwelcome one. It starts when you arrive at Incheon and join the "foreigner" line, continues with MBC hit pieces on the "dangers" foreigners, Korean women having to hide their relationships with foreign men, the E-2 visa regulations, etc. etc. Most of us have stories about Koreans letting them know, in one way or another, that they're not really welcome here.
Emigrating to Canada / the U.S. and emigrating to (or even just working in) Korea are different experiences altogether. Only the blind, stupid or seriously indoctrinated can fail to see the difference.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/03/21/a-fascinating-map-of-countries-color-coded-by-their-openness-to-foreigners/
http://www.cicnews.com/2008/12/canada-welcoming-country-world-12695.html
You're failing all over the place dude.
Last edited by Smithington on Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Didn't know that Canada was full of nordic types.Laughing Ever been to Toronto, Vancouver or any other major Canadian city? They're as multicultural as any American city. Probably more so. And if you think a Nigerian, Egyptian or Polish person is going to experience the same struggles, obstacles and barriers in Canada or the States that they do in Korea, well then your more delusional than I thought. I visited a friend in Canada a few months ago and what struck me were buses with adverts for immigration assistance on the side reading, "You belong in Canada." Now compare that to the kid yelling at the OP that he "doesn't belong here." The conversation didn't even have anything to do with immigration issues - the OP is, like the rest of us, just a contractual worker who will eventually leave - but with too many Koreans the "you don't belong here" impulse kicks in pretty fast in any disagreement with a foreigner. Canada is a thousand miles ahead of Korea in welcoming foreigners (hell, the word 'foreigner' is no longer even acceptable in civil discourse). In Korea they have a myriad number of ways to remind you that you are not only a foreigner, but an unwelcome one. It starts when you arrive at Incheon and join the "foreigner" line, continues with MBC hit pieces on the "dangers" foreigners, Korean women having to hide their relationships with foreign men, the E-2 visa regulations, etc. etc. Most of us have stories about Koreans letting them know, in one way or another, that they're not really welcome here.
Emigrating to Canada / the U.S. and emigrating to (or even just working in) Korea are different experiences altogether. Only the blind, stupid or seriously indoctrinated can fail to see the difference. |
And if you think its all roses and puppies for them, you are being delusional.
I'm certain minorities and immigrants from America could comment on their experiences. I'm sure they'd have some non-welcoming moments they can recall and some incidents where some moron told them to go back home. |
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beison
Joined: 28 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: So, an ajoshie bumped into me the other day and... |
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| rabidcake wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
| rabidcake wrote: |
| byrddogs wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
| Scorpion wrote: |
Ironically, at the same time K-pop boy is starting to yell, “Here is the Korea. Here is not your country.” |
Ah, this famous line. Deep down, this is what many of them believe anyway, they just don't say it until they get angry. To many of them, on a fundamental level, you are in the wrong just for being in their country. Yes, you can visit, but you aren't really supposed to be staying and trying to mix in.
This is also why a lot of long-termers turn out bitter and weird. Despite wanting to stay here, they can't seem to shake the nagging fact that in the end, foreigners on the whole are simply not welcome here. |
It's an especially nice touch when posters here use that, yet worded a little differently, as well. |
This is not true. |
What exactly is "not true" about it? I agree that Koreans can be very welcoming and generous and generally non-threatening, and will let people live here (especially temporarily), but the idea that foreigners generally don't belong here is hammered into most of them. Can't deny that part.
| Quote: |
| Korea is home to anyone who sees Korea as home and Koreans will respect that, but only if that's what you truly believe. |
Sounds a bit like Tinkerbell stuff to me. What we believe isn't all that relevant, as we are talking about attitudes of the locals. It's all well and good until there's a problem between you and one of the locals, then watch how fast they turn and the conversation turns to "FOREIGNER"! Yes, technically speaking, ANY place can be your home if you end up living there, but that says nothing of the local attitudes toward you.
| Quote: |
Korea is for anyone who wants to respect and be a part of Korea. |
Is it? I've actually never heard that from anyone. I wonder how common that sentiment is among the actual Koreans themselves.
And what does "respect" mean exactly? Not littering or spitting all over the place and SLAMMING INTO PEOPLE? Oh wait...
But I do agree in part. It's actually pretty good here, and a foreigner can live here comfortably in most cases. But as far as living here long term, I think the general sentiment is that we don't quite belong here and that affects the attitudes of the locals as far as how to treat us and where we fit in in terms of their hierarchy, which tends to be towards the bottom rung unfortunately.
I have seen some foreigners (Koreaboos maybe?) that are totally fluent, completely mix with Korean society, and that's great. But what happens when they see him with a Korean girl? Same basic reaction: "Grrrr.... why is she with the foreigner?" And what happens when he tries to marry someone from an upscale family? Or, What happens when he wants to advance to the upper echelons of his company? Will it happen? Likely not. That prejudice will rear its head sooner or later. It's almost programmed into them. |
I disagree but that's just what I believe.
Of course you have to realize you will never be 100% local, but that doesn't mean you can't be accepted by a large community and have your own network and connections. You won't be accepted by everyone, but that's true for any place you live. I have seen many successful mixed couples, I have seen men marry higher scale families, and I have seen foreigners advance up pretty high in their companies and play big parts in management positions. It might be harder but it's definitely possible.
You can of course believe what you will and I respect everyone's opinion. If that type of ideology and effort you put into daily life makes you succeed then so be it. |
After reading this, I think rabidcake might be my favorite poster ever. |
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aecd
Joined: 24 Mar 2013
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| Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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When I lived in Busan I experimented with this problem (which is partly due to Korea and partly due to the incredible population density) and discovered that by looking down and charging forward at ramming speed, the people in my path would usually get out of my way at the last moment. In doing this I basically became no better than they were, however.
I still became so frustrated that I once shoved a middle-aged woman (who had shoved me first!) into a wall on one of the crowded stairwells at a subway station. I stretched out my hand, got her by the shoulder, and very literally pressed her against the wall, so that she cried out---outraged!---and then I walked away, laughing on the outside, crying on the inside, because I never would have done something like that back in America to anyone. I told one of my American friends about this on skype and he was like, how could you do that? And I was like, when in Korea...
I now live in a [better] smaller city full of Western tourists, and so my Korean wife and I don't get the stink eye nearly as often as back in Busan, where it seemed like almost everyone was puking into their mouths when we walked by. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
But back to BUMPING....
Has anyone gotten the passive-aggressive shoulder bump while they are holding a Korean girls hand? I have and it was pretty blatant. |
I don't really get that. To be honest, I get bumped tons while out and about by myself... but when I'm walking with my wife and child (all holding hands), people often steer clear.
This brings me to my next theory... they only bump certain ppl. Seeing kids checked, or old ladies pushed down - that's pretty rare. But everyone else in between, they're fair game.
To me, this differs a bit from the west. Where I'm from, it's obviously rude to bump anyone - old folks and kids especially. But another group ya don't bump - able people - especially if they look like wreckers.
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This is what is really weird, as that just goes against evolution. Bump a wrecker, and you may have a big problem.
Not saying I look like a "wrecker" but the 2-3 times I got blatantly aggressively bumped by guys way smaller, who blatantly lost the bump battle and would have been on the losing end of things almost certainly had I chosen to pursue them. Obviously I chose not to make a scene, and as usual, it's the passive aggressive thing so you're never quite 100% sure it's intentional, as they don't turn around and mean mug or anything.
I almost think they don't really have to go through the same school of hard knocks that people other places might, as this is just basic common sense almost everywhere, learned on the playground by age 10 : Don't slam into people or you could have a real problem. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:49 am Post subject: |
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I came to the conclusion that the ones who do this are just reminding you that Korea is their country,
and no matter how much you try to fit in, how much you try
to learn the language, have a Korean family, no matter what you do
it will still be their country. |
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IPayInCash
Joined: 27 Jul 2013
Location: Away from all my board stalkers :)
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| Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
I came to the conclusion that the ones who do this are just reminding you that Korea is their country,
and no matter how much you try to fit in, how much you try
to learn the language, have a Korean family, no matter what you do
it will still be their country. |
That's why I'm at a crossroads with learning Korean.
My Korean is enough to get by but in no ways fluent. On one hand I can learn more and make my life easier.
On the other it will never make a difference how the ajummas and adjosshis give me and my smoking hot girlfriend looks of disgust and hatred every time we walk outside.
Korea is LITERALLY the only country I've been to that metaphorically screams into my ear "You're not welcome here!" I wouldn't recommend living in this dump to anyone.
Speaking of which.... I was with my smoking hot girlfriend walking her home once and one couple behind us literally shouted "Go home Yankee!" to me. I just ignored it, I knew if I laid a finger on them I'd have the cops called on me, but my smoking hot girlfriend refused to let me hold her back and chased them down, confronting them, and demanding an apology. To their credit the jerks actually apologized. My girl is one tough customer. |
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maitaidads
Joined: 08 Oct 2012
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| Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Speaking of which.... I was with my smoking hot Canadian coworker walking him home once and some children behind us literally shouted "Go home Yankee!" to me. I just ignored it, I knew if I laid a finger and thumb combo on them I'd have the authorities called on me, but my smoking hot Canadian coworker- he likes to lift weights- refused to let me hold him back and chased them down, confronting them, and demanding an apology. To their credit the children actually apologized. My smoking hot Canadian coworker is one tough customer- especially in private. |
Awesome story. Thanks for sharing a page from your diary. Handsome guys like myself simply walk through the throngs, the seas part as if I was Moses, they give my girlfriends a pat on the butt, and I fire a shot from my revolver into the air and donate the proceeds to Haiti. |
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optik404
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| What kind of beta makes his GF confront other men to get an apology? |
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