Korean Job Discussion Forums

[jackson7]

Hey All,

Judging by the flaming and trolling that's been occurring recently, it's once again university hiring time in Korea, when university-related threads pop up and are quickly filled with all sorts of wonderful subjective misinformation. Here's a weak attempt at summarizing some of what's been going on, to perhaps save the thread-chasers some time:

1) People who work at universities are/aren't professors.

This one is so popular it deserves its own forum. The answer to this one is easy -- there is no answer. Do we go by one's business card? Do we go by one's duties? Do we go by one's educational background? Even if you've attained a doctorate, you're still not a professor. You've simply earned the right (albeit a somewhat pompous one, in some cases) to be called "doctor."

Some of the best answers to this question I've heard are, "When speaking with a Korean, using the Korean term (교수님), and when you're speaking with others, tell them what you do." Be honest. "I teach English conversation classes at XY University," or, "I do research and help develop the curriculum in the English department for XY Uni." Working at a university in Korea is sweet enough, without having to sugar coat it. Which brings me to the next idea that has been discussed...

2) Working at a university in Korea is amazing/terrible.

There are terrible uni gigs, and there are great ones. There are amazing hagwons, and others that keep midnight runners up at night. The fact is, after wading through the boasting and income inflation, one need only look at the recruitment ads to get a clearer picture of how sweet these jobs really are. In general, you'll see pay of between 2.2 and 3.2 million won, for teaching hours of between 9 and 20 hours. Most of the gigs I've interviewed for over the years have been around 12-15, and the pay was always around 3 mil.

That works out to some pretty sweet coin per hour, and when you consider the freedom you're often afforded to design and implement your classes and lessons, that you're not required to be on campus when you're not teaching, and that you only teach 3-4 days per week for 32 weeks per year, this is a great job. Even if you find yourself at the lower end of the pay scale, and the higher end regarding working hours, you're still probably enjoying some serious vacation, which has always been one of the major draws of these jobs. We're not underpaid, if you consider the work we're doing with our qualifications. Which leads me to...

3) Everything ever written ever related to every MA program in the world.

Internet intellectualism strikes again! Apparently, everyone on this board is an expert when it comes to discerning the quality and worth of a graduate school. This is very similar to the ideas above, in that there are incredibly difficult and renowned online programs offered along with the online degree mills, and there are ridiculous pay-to-graduate brick-and-mortar unis operating right alongside some of the top universities in the world.

It doesn't take long for a prospective employer to google up the uni and the degree program to assess the quality of the education provided there, and most quality programs do indeed follow this routine. This one I'll keep shorter, as there is no end to back-and-forth ranting in sight, but both sides of this argument need to realize one thing -- qualifications and experience get stale fairly quickly, so fair or not, it's up to us to keep developing and making ourselves more employable in multiple job markets.

J7

[IPayInCash]

Cool story bro.

[No_hite_pls]

Nice post

[transmogrifier]

[frankhenry]

Genius

[drcrazy]

Professor is both a rank and a position. As a position, it means you teach in a college/university. As a rank, it is the highest rank one who teaches in a college/university can attain. Few ever reach this rank. In my case, I am an assistant professor (my rank). As for my job, I am a professor. One can learn such exciting and valuable knowledge by attending a college/university for a semester, or a little less.

[jackson7]

Whether it's your rank or your job, you'll be hard pressed to find an academic that openly refers to or introduces him or herself as "professor" without having yet attained that rank. In the U.S. system, most are very careful to use their particular rank in such situations, as even (especially?) academics can be dramatic about titles.

The U.K. system is a different matter, but the PhD-holding "professors" in my doctoral program also avoid using or accepting that title unless they've earned it. While titles such as "assistant professor" usually signify tenure-track status in North America, here it's printed on contracts and business cards like crazy.

If drcrazy has been fortunate enough to have secured a tenure-track position, I would thus think it appropriate to introduce himself as an assistant professor of eye-rollery at Busan University

[I'm With You]

[Scorpion]

[Porksta]

If you are a full time teacher in the US at a university, you are a professor. It can be both a title and a rank.

I don't see how this is difficult.

[transmogrifier]

I don't know; I want to hear more from Scorpion, I'm With You, Jodami, and drcrazy. I bet they have a unique, interesting take on this.

[jackson7]

It would seem our little forum is not the only one having issues nailing this one down:

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=520465

http://www.econjobrumors.com/topic/can-you-call-yourself-professor-as-a-graduate-student-teaching-a-course

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor

J7

[goat]

When you go to the upcoming Halloween Party Get-Together, look around, all the professors will be dressed as clowns. All the clowns will be dressed as professors. Remember, the big red shoes guy will be the professor. The guy decked out in the spiffy imitation silk shirt and digging for change in the bottom of the pockets of his faux corduroy slacks to pay for a taxi ride back to his studio villa will be the clown. Also note, real clowns have a tendency to pack in and climb out of cars/taxis in groups.

[Malislamusrex]

It's funny how some waygooks get angry when people working at a university call themselves professor. Why would anyone care? In Korea every university teacher is referred to as professor.

It's fairly obvious te people you work with know your qualifications. The Korean professors must know who is a conversation/ESL teacher, who has a PhD, who is a non-tenured faculty member, who has tenure, who is a senior academic member with published journals, and who is internationally recognised in their field. Calling youself Master Professor Bigbrains is not going to change that.

[tob55]

No illusion on my part. I work as a contract "visiting professor" at my current employment. I use it to my advantage when I want. I have other jobs and do other types of work and the people at the University often ask "is it okay for you to have other employment?" I just tell them, I am a part time worker at this University with no status or position of rank within the system, so yes I do other work. I have been with the current University for 4 years now, and it has been fun, but I learned a while ago that unless I was willing to go through the steps of improving my own situation I would forever be limited to the type of employment I have as a non-tenure track instructor.

I still have people asking questions such as "is it okay with immigration for you to have other jobs?" I just tell them, "You contact immigration and talk to them, I am a Korean citizen and don't have any reason or need to talk with them anymore." The looks on their faces is priceless. My K-citizenship is the one thing that may have raised the bar enough for me to actually obtain a tenure track position in a University once my PhD is completed this year. It is no guarantee, but it allows me to actually compete for tenure track jobs.

All the discussion on being a "professor" is good for laughs. I taught at the University and College level as an adjunct professor back in the USA for more than 15 years before coming to Korea, and while it was part time, it was actually recognized as a legitimate position. Still had no health related benefits, but I was allowed to vote as part of the instructional staff, so there is a difference. Nothing like that is going to take place in Korea for the foreseeable future, so to those who insist on calling themselves "professor" so be it. It was never much of an issue or concern for me.

I enjoy what I do, but it has never been about position recognition with me. I am just thankful to have a job that allows me the time I desire to spend with my family away from the job. With the University position I have a nice schedule with a more than adequate amount of time away from work to do the things I want with my wife and little girl as we travel and see places in and out of Korea. That's my take on being a "professor" in Korea. Cheers