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joelove
Joined: 12 May 2011
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 Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| newchamp wrote: |
| Korean kids are taught that they are of one special blood |
I think here lies the ground for why Koreans are weird. Many believe they are special merely because they were born whatever they are. Insane as it is, it persists, this idea that one is special through birth. I guess that's just culture and society, teaching all that garbage. How random it all is. I'd be Muslim if I were born in the right place for that, Buddhist elsewhere, as culture completely swallowed me. |
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cam83
Joined: 27 Jan 2013
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Cam, simple question for you - why should I accept your definition as the absolute when it differs from my own, my experiences, and nearly every source? |
Hey Captain, first off I think I should point out that you shouldn't outright accept my definition because what I posted was more of an expansion of what the dictionary/wiki has to say, not a contradiction. As I mentioned several pages back, the dictionary deals with certainties/facts mostly without context. This is easy for example for the word 'table' because it's both tangible and easy to identify/prove-they will all fit the broad description given in the dictionary. However the term 'racism' has deep social context, so the concept itself is incomplete. It leaves out the 'why?'
What I tried to do was provide that context in a way that explained why I used the term 'systematic' as the only form of racism... mostly because racism is not something you just wake up one day and decide to do. Through various analogies I was trying to point out that some Koreans can be/are racist, just not towards white people.
If you find my points/explanation wrong/not believable then I apologise for my lack of skills to clearly express my point of view, as it was pretty much shot down without anyone offering an alternative way to objectively analyse the concept of racism. I'd be happy to hear other people's explanations as to how racism comes about though.
Okay, off to the 약극 for me - post Itaewon hangover! |
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Popocatepetl
Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Location: Winter in Korea: One Perfect day after another
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| joelove wrote: |
| Many believe they are special merely because they were born whatever they are. Insane as it is, it persists, this idea that one is special through birth. |
This elitism is common to every society on earth.
Every culture finds a way to think itself somehow uniquely superior.
Most do not do it via race myths though. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:10 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Korean kids are taught that they are of one special blood |
Not to deny that Koreans may or may not be taught that, but most people tend to think their country is pretty special, and certainly a good deal of NETs walk around with a certain "Look at me, I'm so special" air. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| joelove wrote: |
| newchamp wrote: |
| Korean kids are taught that they are of one special blood |
I think here lies the ground for why Koreans are weird. Many believe they are special merely because they were born whatever they are. Insane as it is, it persists, this idea that one is special through birth. I guess that's just culture and society, teaching all that garbage. How random it all is. I'd be Muslim if I were born in the right place for that, Buddhist elsewhere, as culture completely swallowed me. |
Good lord this is both simplistic and it shows a pretty astounding degree of ignorance about the world. Korean are nationalistic (often to a fault) then again that does not make them any weirder than most other people elsewhere. |
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metalhead
Joined: 18 May 2010
Location: Toilet
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| joelove wrote: |
| newchamp wrote: |
| Korean kids are taught that they are of one special blood |
I think here lies the ground for why Koreans are weird. Many believe they are special merely because they were born whatever they are. Insane as it is, it persists, this idea that one is special through birth. I guess that's just culture and society, teaching all that garbage. How random it all is. I'd be Muslim if I were born in the right place for that, Buddhist elsewhere, as culture completely swallowed me. |
Good lord this is both simplistic and it shows a pretty astounding degree of ignorance about the world. Korean are nationalistic (often to a fault) then again that does not make them any weirder than most other people elsewhere. |
I like Koreans. They're so weird and racist that they stick to themselves here in Europe and I never encounter any of them or their rudeness in social situations. |
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Popocatepetl
Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Location: Winter in Korea: One Perfect day after another
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
If they are sincere racists, which is to say, individuals who genuinely believe another race is objectively inferior, why would they feel the need to bother? |
Racism is not necesarily a belief in ones racial superiority surely, rather a hostile discrimination against another race- wether you regard them as superior or not.
IMO Koreans are have become motivated more by anti-foreigner nationalism rather than racism per se.
You seem to have an overly rosy view of the situation. Its easy to think that when you have mostly superficial day-to-day encounters.
But to see the deeper reality you have only to scratch the surface a little. Ever had heated words or an argument with a Korean? It can be shocking the attitudes and venom they come out with- stuff you would never normally have detected. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| cam83 wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Cam, simple question for you - why should I accept your definition as the absolute when it differs from my own, my experiences, and nearly every source? |
Hey Captain, first off I think I should point out that you shouldn't outright accept my definition because what I posted was more of an expansion of what the dictionary/wiki has to say, not a contradiction. As I mentioned several pages back, the dictionary deals with certainties/facts mostly without context. This is easy for example for the word 'table' because it's both tangible and easy to identify/prove-they will all fit the broad description given in the dictionary. However the term 'racism' has deep social context, so the concept itself is incomplete. It leaves out the 'why?'
What I tried to do was provide that context in a way that explained why I used the term 'systematic' as the only form of racism... mostly because racism is not something you just wake up one day and decide to do. Through various analogies I was trying to point out that some Koreans can be/are racist, just not towards white people.
If you find my points/explanation wrong/not believable then I apologise for my lack of skills to clearly express my point of view, as it was pretty much shot down without anyone offering an alternative way to objectively analyse the concept of racism. I'd be happy to hear other people's explanations as to how racism comes about though.
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Some serious back-peddling going on here!
First you posted your definition in an attempt to correct others on here, and now you say your definition shouldn't be accepted outright and that it's just an expansion, and not even a contradiction. That's quite a change of tune!
But then you change tune again and contradict yourself in the second paragraph by again re-stating that "systematic" is the "only" form of racism. And then you say that Koreans can be racist, but NOT towards white people. Hmm, right. Presumably, because according to you it "HAS TO BE" systematic and/or because there is no "narrative" of superiority, but I talked about the narrative they have and you ignored it. And that's even granting that it "has to be" systematic to be racism at all ...which it doesn't. So, wrong on both counts.
To be clear, I think it's mostly a walk in the park here for white people and racism is mostly a non-issue for most, and I don't think Koreans in general are all that racist towards white people, but to say Koreans simply CAN'T be racist towards them is a very bizarre statement.
As to the statement that no others on here offered an alternative view, that's simply wrong as well. The idea that individual racism can occur was posted on here to begin with, and you tried to shoot it down (and failed). No alternative view! Why do you think others were arguing with you in the first place? Because they had an alternative view of it, that's why.
My alternative view is that any group can feel racism towards any other group, regardless of feelings of inferiority or superiority towards that group. Those feelings are very complex and not black and white at all (so to speak). Equal opportunity racism; it's not confined to just a few groups, it's something we can ALL potentially feel, and experience.
But I'd like to end with a positive statement: There's really only one race: the human race. Wish we could all live by that more often. |
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cam83
Joined: 27 Jan 2013
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
| cam83 wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Cam, simple question for you - why should I accept your definition as the absolute when it differs from my own, my experiences, and nearly every source? |
Hey Captain, first off I think I should point out that you shouldn't outright accept my definition because what I posted was more of an expansion of what the dictionary/wiki has to say, not a contradiction. As I mentioned several pages back, the dictionary deals with certainties/facts mostly without context. This is easy for example for the word 'table' because it's both tangible and easy to identify/prove-they will all fit the broad description given in the dictionary. However the term 'racism' has deep social context, so the concept itself is incomplete. It leaves out the 'why?'
What I tried to do was provide that context in a way that explained why I used the term 'systematic' as the only form of racism... mostly because racism is not something you just wake up one day and decide to do. Through various analogies I was trying to point out that some Koreans can be/are racist, just not towards white people.
If you find my points/explanation wrong/not believable then I apologise for my lack of skills to clearly express my point of view, as it was pretty much shot down without anyone offering an alternative way to objectively analyse the concept of racism. I'd be happy to hear other people's explanations as to how racism comes about though.
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Some serious back-peddling going on here!
First you posted your definition in an attempt to correct others on here, and now you say your definition shouldn't be accepted outright and that it's just an expansion, and not even a contradiction. That's quite a change of tune!
But then you change tune again and contradict yourself in the second paragraph by again re-stating that "systematic" is the "only" form of racism. And then you say that Koreans can be racist, but NOT towards white people. Hmm, right. Presumably, because according to you it "HAS TO BE" systematic and/or because there is no "narrative" of superiority, but I talked about the narrative they have and you ignored it. And that's even granting that it "has to be" systematic to be racism at all ...which it doesn't. So, wrong on both counts.
To be clear, I think it's mostly a walk in the park here for white people and racism is mostly a non-issue for most, and I don't think Koreans in general are all that racist towards white people, but to say Koreans simply CAN'T be racist towards them is a very bizarre statement.
As to the statement that no others on here offered an alternative view, that's simply wrong as well. The idea that individual racism can occur was posted on here to begin with, and you tried to shoot it down (and failed). No alternative view! Why do you think others were arguing with you in the first place? Because they had an alternative view of it, that's why.
My alternative view is that any group can feel racism towards any other group, regardless of feelings of inferiority or superiority towards that group. Those feelings are very complex and not black and white at all (so to speak). Equal opportunity racism; it's not confined to just a few groups, it's something we can ALL potentially feel, and experience.
But I'd like to end with a positive statement: There's really only one race: the human race. Wish we could all live by that more often. |
Oh really? Well I must admit it's been a very busy weekend for me so have possibly missed such postings. Could you let me know which page these posts are on? I didn't say anyone hadn't offered a different point of view, I said that no-one was offering an alternative way to objectively analyse the concept of racism. So while I do see even you have a point of view, I fail to see any explanation or reason put forward in your argument as to why you believe this to be the case. I am definitely interested in hearing how other people arrived at their conclusions.
You are also correct in that I did put forward a definition of racism and then clarified by saying that systematic racism is the only definition of racism... but what you have to realise here is that I provided a base for my argument and reasoning by giving several analogies as to why this is true. All of the replies that disagreed with what I wrote, gave ZERO explanation as to why they thought it was wrong and gave no explanation as to why they think they are right. I felt like all I got in return was a kind of "no you're wrong, this is BS... I can't explain why it's BS, it just is." |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| joelove wrote: |
| newchamp wrote: |
| Korean kids are taught that they are of one special blood |
I think here lies the ground for why Koreans are weird. Many believe they are special merely because they were born whatever they are. Insane as it is, it persists, this idea that one is special through birth. I guess that's just culture and society, teaching all that garbage. How random it all is. I'd be Muslim if I were born in the right place for that, Buddhist elsewhere, as culture completely swallowed me. |
Good lord this is both simplistic and it shows a pretty astounding degree of ignorance about the world. Korean are nationalistic (often to a fault) then again that does not make them any weirder than most other people elsewhere. |
I'll let Joe defend his own post, but your take on his post is baffling.
You might want to do some thinking about your apologist position before commenting on another's ignorance.
Maybe just read his post again. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| [q I read some stories about a couple of English teachers even getting killed or lynched in the late 90's after the Asian crash. . |
Only this never happened. Mobs of Koreans did NOT string up a single English teacher. Nor did they kill one. There WERE instances of one or two English teachers dying in this country (one in detention) but that is a far cry from being lynched or murdered.
Some people just like to make up stories. |
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byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| joelove wrote: |
| newchamp wrote: |
| Korean kids are taught that they are of one special blood |
I think here lies the ground for why Koreans are weird. Many believe they are special merely because they were born whatever they are. Insane as it is, it persists, this idea that one is special through birth. I guess that's just culture and society, teaching all that garbage. How random it all is. I'd be Muslim if I were born in the right place for that, Buddhist elsewhere, as culture completely swallowed me. |
Good lord this is both simplistic and it shows a pretty astounding degree of ignorance about the world. Korean are nationalistic (often to a fault) then again that does not make them any weirder than most other people elsewhere. |
I'll let Joe defend his own post, but your take on his post is baffling.
You might want to do some thinking about your apologist position before commenting on another's ignorance.
Maybe just read his post again. |
Therein lies the problem with this guy; so quick to jump in with something without having read anything. It's stale. |
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byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| [q I read some stories about a couple of English teachers even getting killed or lynched in the late 90's after the Asian crash. . |
Only this never happened. Mobs of Koreans did NOT string up a single English teacher. Nor did they kill one. There WERE instances of one or two English teachers dying in this country (one in detention) but that is a far cry from being lynched or murdered.
Some people just like to make up stories. |
And some people just like to be pompous aholes. |
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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| [q I read some stories about a couple of English teachers even getting killed or lynched in the late 90's after the Asian crash. . |
Only this never happened. Mobs of Koreans did NOT string up a single English teacher. Nor did they kill one. There WERE instances of one or two English teachers dying in this country (one in detention) but that is a far cry from being lynched or murdered.
Some people just like to make up stories. |
| Quote: |
On Sept. 7, 1998, a Korean man walked into Sunchon Boys High School and asked if there was an American teacher employed there. Upon locating the American teacher, the man engaged him in a brief conversation, then proceeded to stab him in the back as he was walking away, going down the stairs from the second floor. The victim, Scott James Kennedy, 33, from North Dakota, died upon arrival at a hospital in Sunchon.
When interrogated, the attacker said that he murdered Scott because he didn't want Americans here teaching Korean children. It was also noted that he said foreigners should not be allowed to hold jobs here while many Koreans are unemployed. It should be noted that Scott's murderer had a history of mental instability and was institutionalized in the past. |
http://populargusts.blogspot.kr/2011/02/newspaper-accounts-of-1998-murder-of.html |
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SeoulNate
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Location: Hyehwa
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| No_hite_pls wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| [q I read some stories about a couple of English teachers even getting killed or lynched in the late 90's after the Asian crash. . |
Only this never happened. Mobs of Koreans did NOT string up a single English teacher. Nor did they kill one. There WERE instances of one or two English teachers dying in this country (one in detention) but that is a far cry from being lynched or murdered.
Some people just like to make up stories. |
| Quote: |
On Sept. 7, 1998, a Korean man walked into Sunchon Boys High School and asked if there was an American teacher employed there. Upon locating the American teacher, the man engaged him in a brief conversation, then proceeded to stab him in the back as he was walking away, going down the stairs from the second floor. The victim, Scott James Kennedy, 33, from North Dakota, died upon arrival at a hospital in Sunchon.
When interrogated, the attacker said that he murdered Scott because he didn't want Americans here teaching Korean children. It was also noted that he said foreigners should not be allowed to hold jobs here while many Koreans are unemployed. It should be noted that Scott's murderer had a history of mental instability and was institutionalized in the past. |
http://populargusts.blogspot.kr/2011/02/newspaper-accounts-of-1998-murder-of.html |
If I had a nickle for every time a similar situation happened with a similar poster, I would be a rich rich man. |
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