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Is this normal for a gyopo?
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:29 pm Post subject:

Quote:

If a Korean person makes a complaint about some injustice, and his foreign teacher friend voices the same complaint, then maybe the complaint might just be legitimate and the ruling class may indeed need/ be on the way to change..

Then it is the responsibility of the Korean person to make complaint and enact change. They are citizens of the sovereign nation of Korea and have fulfilled the responsibilities of that citizenship and have a vested long-term interest in the nation.

In my experience a great many of the complaints amount to little more than "change to make me happy during my two year stay here". Nor does the motivation arise from a genuine desire to see Korea improve, it often arises from a dark place in someone's heart that wishes to put Koreans down in order to make themselves feel better.

The best way to advocate for change is to lead by example. To show support and genuine concern for the individuals around you and to treat them as such.

I'm not asking people to check their mind, I'm asking them to check their heart. They may think their complaints arise from the mind, but in most cases, it is from the heart. Their heart leads their mind. Living in another country where you are not a citizen and in all likelihood, a short-term resident, means checking certain parts of your heart at the door.

And when it comes to this change- patience, patience, patience.

postfundie

Joined: 28 May 2004

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:59 am Post subject:

Quote:

a vested long-term interest in the nation.

In my experience a great many of the complaints amount to little more than "change to make me happy during my two year stay here". Nor does the motivation arise from a genuine desire to see Korea improve, it often arises from a dark place in someone's heart that wishes to put Koreans down in order to make themselves feel better.

For people that just stepped off the boat and for short-termers, sure! Although, you shouldn't just write off everything they say. If they complain that the beer is bad, then you could read into that, with your-ultra-sensative-feeling self, and interpret it as putting Koreans down... Or it could be that there is a cartel here that keeps people from brewing and shipping good beer.
Also you don't direct your comments just towards the make-my-two-year-stay-here-happy people. You mouth off to people on these boards that have been here 10 or 20 years, longer than you have and who speak Korean better than you do. What right do you have to tell people with bi-racial kids that they should just put up with/ not complain about the crap goes on here? Oh yes, you are in touch with the dark places of people's hearts and that is the source of their criticism towards Korea. Anway, as an apologist you have made it into the Pantheon of Dave's posters so for that I congratulate you.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:27 am Post subject:

Dude, if you can't acknowledge that there have been some awfully bigoted posts on this board towards Koreans, and that aside from "apologists" and a few moderates, most people have failed to condemn them, then you are as blind to the racism on here as I am blind to the faults of Korea that you accuse me of being.

NohopeSeriously

Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:43 pm Post subject:

I would never be accepted as a Korean among the buggy swarm of Koreans. It has always been better for me to reject my Korean-ness. Hence, my zealot-like cling to Christianity.

I want to keep my Korean identity but reality tells me that being a religious Christian is a better option for me.

Steelrails wrote:

Dude, if you can't acknowledge that there have been some awfully bigoted posts on this board towards Koreans, and that aside from "apologists" and a few moderates, most people have failed to condemn them, then you are as blind to the racism on here as I am blind to the faults of Korea that you accuse me of being.

My spidey sense, I mean my gyopo sense convinces me that this whole anti-Korean sentiment is pretty much justifiable. I mean we are dealing with an extremely hostile group of collectively insecure people in Asia that defies the generic common sense. I believe it's dangerous to praise them.

wishfullthinkng

Joined: 05 Mar 2010

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:27 pm Post subject:

NohopeSeriously wrote:

Steelrails wrote:

lol. this helps to confirm that gyopos are one of the worst crowds of foreigners in korea. sadly many people i know agree.

a bible thumping, self-hating gyopo that chooses to live in a country he can't understand thus doesn't like? recipe for success! Laughing

jvalmer

Joined: 06 Jun 2003

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:59 pm Post subject:

postfundie wrote:

If they complain that the beer is bad, then you could read into that, with your-ultra-sensative-feeling self, and interpret it as putting Koreans down... Or it could be that there is a cartel here that keeps people from brewing and shipping good beer.

Actually, I've been surprised by the number of my friends who have visited that have said they liked the beer here. And one guy was German, out of all the friends, I figure he'd totally blast Korean beer.

postfundie

Joined: 28 May 2004

Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:23 pm Post subject:

Quote:

without a doubt there are bigoted people on this board who generalize about Koreans. I am glad you call them out on it! But that's not your only/real concern. You go overboard to the point that people aren't really even allowed to criticize this place. Why? because they are not citizens. That is your logic. It's like you have knee-jerk reaction to about every post on these boards. Why you don't have knee-jerk reaction to seeing Korea improve? Like this:

hey, Korea needs to stop treating Philippino workers like crap.
Steelrails: I agree. (end of story)

repeat until people think you have changed your tune.

also to the dude who said that the beer here is good, I think he's just being polite. The economist, expats everywhere, and I would say a good number of Koreans (or Koreans who have had craft beer) say that the beer is sh%t.

hiamnotcool

Joined: 06 Feb 2012

Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: Is this normal for a gyopo?

NohopeSeriously wrote:

Nowadays I'm slowly agreeing with most of those back-talking racist anti-Korean remarks from some of my NET co-workers. This is despite that I'm a gyopo and I'm the only gyopo in my hagweon.

I think in the past where Korea was an economically and diplomatically weaker country the defensiveness was justified. Korea was a victim of circumstance and the citizens didn't have enough access to the outside world to relate to foreigners on a personal level (for the most part). I could understand Kyopos or Korean Americans in the past being very upset if someone mocked Korea, because it was kind of the underdog back then. Korea was going through a really rough time and it wasn't a joking matter. Those days are past, but I think some people still see Korea as country that needs assistance and can't stand on it's own two feet. As a result, they don't see foreigners as having the right to judge it because of recent history. I think that as Korea continues to prosper people will start to feel more confident about criticizing it and holding it to a higher standard.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:06 pm Post subject:

postfundie wrote:

hey, Korea needs to stop treating Philippino workers like crap.
Steelrails: I agree. (end of story)

repeat until people think you have changed your tune.
.

So if someone posts nothing but negatives about Korea, many of which are either blanket statements, or blame entire nations/people for the actions of individuals (such as a statement "Korea needs to stop treating Filipino workers like crap") or asserts that such things are uniquely Korean phenomenon, I should just agree and continuously agree?

It sounds to me that you don't want a discussion, you want an echo chamber.

Why are you so opposed to contrary opinions and discussions? Why is it incumbent upon me to change my behavior and habitually agree with whatever negative (and possibly bigoted) comments are posted.

Why is it not the responsibility of posters who write bigoted stuff to change? Or even posters who make questionable statements like "Korea needs to stop treating Filipino workers like crap" Who is this 'Korea'? Who is culpable for it? You are blaming the entire nation for the corrupt actions of individuals.

What's the motivation for someone posting that? Are they genuinely concerned over their plight? Are they friends with Filipino dock workers? Or are they posting that just so they can put the country/people down in order to make themselves feel better and to somehow claim moral superiority?

jjajangmyun

Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Location: way down south!

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:06 am Post subject:

as a gyopo, there are 2 types of people in this world i really hate: 1. those who are intolerant of others 2. bible-thumping, self-hating gyopos 3. people who can't count

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:59 pm Post subject:

postfundie wrote:

Also you don't direct your comments just towards the make-my-two-year-stay-here-happy people. You mouth off to people on these boards that have been here 10 or 20 years, longer than you have and who speak Korean better than you do. What right do you have to tell people with bi-racial kids that they should just put up with/ not complain about the crap goes on here? Oh yes, you are in touch with the dark places of people's hearts and that is the source of their criticism towards Korea. Anway, as an apologist you have made it into the Pantheon of Dave's posters so for that I congratulate you.

I'm calling shenanigans on that. Mr. Steelrails posts a fair bit that I don't agree with...but I've never seen him post that parents with bi-racial kids should just put up with/not complain.

And when it comes to actual experiences with bi-racial kids the positive responses on this board have been in the majority.

NohopeSeriously

Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea

Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:51 am Post subject:

jjajangmyun wrote:

as a gyopo, there are 2 types of people in this world i really hate:

1. those who are intolerant of others
2. bible-thumping, self-hating gyopos
3. people who can't count

At least being a religious Christian makes me a better person, better than any gyopo, especially the Korean-American ones. Very Happy

(To be honest with you, Korean-Americans in California are very scary for us typical Korean-Canadians.)

wishfullthinkng wrote:

We're not crazy. We're exceptionally marginalized by the intolerant South Koreans because of our particular background. Not to mention that being a Canadian makes me anxious mostly because South Korea (Worst Korea?) is a fanatical pro-American country.

Died By Bear

Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee

Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:33 am Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

and the mods are like the Principal's office for adults. Some folks can't wait to go tell the teacher you did something 'bad'.

jjajangmyun

Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Location: way down south!

Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:33 pm Post subject:

Aw man u totally didnt get my joke! It seems there's No Hope for you. Seriously.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:24 pm Post subject:

Died By Bear wrote:

Steelrails wrote:

and the mods are like the Principal's office for adults. Some folks can't wait to go tell the teacher you did something 'bad'.

Hey, one thing I do is that I hardly ever go to the mods. I think I've gone twice in all my time here. One time was when someone refused to stop calling me "boy" (sorta in that old Jim Crow way of speaking to minorities) and the other I can't remember, but it was something similar.

Heck I didn't even go to the mods over the gyopo thing. I took every pains to avoid that PM by raising the issue publicly so people could discuss it. I do believe in the free exchange of ideas.

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