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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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 Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Late 80s and early 90s were a blast. There were fewer westerners here, and opportunities were abound. You had to consciously try to not make money. Hugely unqualified people were getting paid great coin to do everything in ESL from textbook writing, to editing, to test writing, to recording, to teaching large scale test prep, to corporate training, hell, to even radio.
In the early 90s, actual college jobs were fewer and farther in between, but if you had a line on one, even a totally unrelated BA would do. I remember a buddy of mine with a BA in biology getting a position teaching English at a university after having taught only a year or so at a crapwon.
Virtually all of the qualified people in ESL in the mid 90s worked for Yonsei's foreign language institute. You can trace back most of the long timers with the great university gigs now to that institution. When conditions there started going south in terms of comparative wages and conditions, the instructors branched out into every decent ESL university program in Seoul. |
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Popocatepetl
Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Location: Winter in Korea: One Perfect day after another
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| PRagic wrote: |
| Late 80s ..were a blast. |
Were you here for the olympics? How was that? |
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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| In 1989, privates paid 50,000 won an hour. You know how much 50,000 could buy back then? SO much. |
In 96, 50000 was the norm around me, English learning just wasnt as mainstream like it now. Fewer chances, maybe? |
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swashbuckler
Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| ...and Japan and the Middle East also payed better in the late 80s/early 90s...and power ballads were still popular..and people weren't glued to gadgets 24/7..and you could go through an airport without taking of your shoes.. and the world economy wasn't in the toilet, except for a few months in '92...and Itaewon was still cool and slightly dangerous...and there were only a couple of PC rooms in Seoul... and hongdae was uncharted territory..and Korean girls still thought you were a novelty, mostly because you were all younger/thinner/had more hair...and... |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
OK, I'll rephrase that:
As far back in the past as anyone can remember (at least from about 1988 onwards), there was great money to be made. The exception would be 1997-1999, as the Asian financial crisis changed things. (In 1997, many teachers fled Korea and went to Japan, Taiwan (which at the time paid well), and elsewhere. Most did not stick around.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Asian_financial_crisis
Pre-1997 there was great money to be made. (The going rate in 1996 and prior was 50,000 an hour, which was more than $70 USD.) You could work in Korea for a year and leave with $50,000-$60,000 USD from all the privates. (In today's money that is a hell of a lot.) Can a backpacker save 50-60K per year working in Korea now? Hell no. It's no longer possible. 2006-2008 were great years to make money too (given the good exchange rate), but those times are gone and are never coming back.
(>_<PS- Friend is shorthand for fellow apologist. You guys are likeminded; e-friend is a fitting label.) :~ |
I will ignore the silly apologist accusation and focus on the points you are trying to make.
1- The amounts you quote were not the norm but were obtainable for certain teachers.
2- I already agreed with you that the savings potentiel in Korea now is far less than it was in 1997 or even in the early 2000s.
3- Those "times" you are discussing will not comeback in the same way but the market will offer potential to those who are qualified. There are also opportunities for foreigners now that simply did not exist in 1997 in terms of the variety of jobs, support for foreigners, investment possibilities.
4- you seem to paint those "times" , namely the Wild East era, as a free wheeling money making festival. The reality in 1997 was not that at all. Sure you could save a higher proportion of your wages but support for foreigners in terms of work, rights and goods was nowhere near what it is today. Also, most jobs then were Hakwon jobs and the standard work week was not 5 days but rather 6 days. There were fewer holidays and a far higher chance of getting cheated by an employer than there is today. So, it has been give and take to be sure but the Wild East days, while interesting were not for everyone and a lot of the complaints I read from foreigners today make me laugh and wonder how long those guys would have lasted working in Korea in the 1990s! |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| Jodami wrote: |
I also heard 50,00 won was the norm back then.
As usual, as on every other thread, BusanPaddy has been shown up as a person, consistently talking out of his Canadian rear end.
Ah well, *some* things, never ever change.  |
Simple "you heard" vs "I earned".
See how that works? You heard from whomever while myself and others were there at that time.
Pvt lessons COULD earn you 50 000W per hour, some could earn you 90 000W per hour but those were not the norm.
Still, buy a time machine and go look for yourself. |
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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Jodami wrote: |
I also heard 50,00 won was the norm back then.
As usual, as on every other thread, BusanPaddy has been shown up as a person, consistently talking out of his Canadian rear end.
Ah well, *some* things, never ever change. |
Simple "you heard" vs "I earned".
See how that works? You heard from whomever while myself and others were there at that time.
Pvt lessons COULD earn you 50 000W per hour, some could earn you 90 000W per hour but those were not the norm.
Still, buy a time machine and go look for yourself. |
I was here in 1996, and I got 50000 normally.
OK?
That said, I dont remember people raking in money, maybe they did. There wasnt the English fever there is now, but I remember a guy who really hustled and I always saw him downtown when there wasnt many foreigners here and he told me he bought a car and put a down payment on a place in Canada from his earnings. I guess its possible.
I just dont recall people being English mad like they are now. |
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seoulsucker
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: The Land of the Hesitant Cutoff
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| Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:32 am Post subject: |
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I work as an instructor at a university here, and of my foreign coworkers have been cut for next year. Granted, the school is/was under investigation for some kind of laundering fraud, and that might have something to do with it, but one of the exiting guys sent out an email today passing on info from the Korean staff.
It stated that the Ministry of Education has mandated that all university ESL programs nationwide are to be cut and will be replaced with a new program that focuses on writing and reading components instead of just speaking.
Every single position that will be put up for these positions must be filled by a foreigner with an English-related MA.
Now this guy is a bit of a nutter and has been spewing out "the sky is falling" emails for months now without any evidence, but I have read a few things on forums and in the news that bring shades of validity to his rants.
Can anyone chime in and confirm/bust this? |
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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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| Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| seoulsucker wrote: |
It stated that the Ministry of Education has mandated that all university ESL programs nationwide are to be cut and will be replaced with a new program that focuses on writing and reading components instead of just speaking.
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Yeah there is a new writing curriculum being put in at the univ level, don't know where its coming from, think places like Seoul National started it and now lots of univs are implementing it (I know several who have done it), our univ did it this past year and tbph IT SUCKS!!!!!!!
We were told we had to have ALL our students write an academic essay in the course of a semester. we've discovered that these students have no writing skills coming in because they really haven't written sentence let alone a paragraph since like 7th grade because the suneung doesn't require it.
not sure how this going to affect staffing my school isn't hiring any new teachers for the spring and a couple of people are leaving. Think more the declining student numbers is behind the upping of standards for a univ gig, now that there are less students and fewer classes they can up the requirements for teachers. just a thought |
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IamBabo
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:09 am Post subject: Uni |
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Well at my university there are almost 20 people that are up for renewal. So I think we will have a good idea about what is happening if they let us go..
And I also have heard about this writing/reading thing replacing speaking. A Korean teacher took over a job I was doing at a hagwon recently because they were basically giving up on speaking to focus on the writing aspect... |
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anamika
Joined: 16 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
We were told we had to have ALL our students write an academic essay in the course of a semester. we've discovered that these students have no writing skills coming in because they really haven't written sentence let alone a paragraph since like 7th grade because the suneung doesn't require it.
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Ah, gotta love it. Students can "understand" sentences like "Perchance, had I know that the defenestration was a perfectly logical consequence of the obsequious fawning, I wouldn't have acted in the manner that I was widely perceived to have, at least according to the report that resonated amongst some quarters."
Then they write stuff like this: "I am student. So I study. And I go to the school. So I am a student. But sometimes I drink a soju. And now I stop my introduce my self, I expect you teach us kindly." |
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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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| Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:57 am Post subject: Re: Uni |
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| IamBabo wrote: |
Well at my university there are almost 20 people that are up for renewal. So I think we will have a good idea about what is happening if they let us go..
And I also have heard about this writing/reading thing replacing speaking. A Korean teacher took over a job I was doing at a hagwon recently because they were basically giving up on speaking to focus on the writing aspect... |
colleague and I were talking about us getting replaced by Koreans because of this writing requirement. He thinks a lot of univ gigs with the rare exception of the English Dept will be gone as Koreans are phased in. Heck at my univ a separate reading/writing course taught with a western textbook is being taught by Koreans. They are far cheaper than us native speakers.
But it's not going to be much of success until changes are made to the suneung and writing is taught at the 7-12 level which isn't going to happen. Plus it still doesn't fix what will be the declining speaking level but thats for another day |
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cabeza
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| seoulsucker wrote: |
It stated that the Ministry of Education has mandated that all university ESL programs nationwide are to be cut and will be replaced with a new program that focuses on writing and reading components instead of just speaking.
Every single position that will be put up for these positions must be filled by a foreigner with an English-related MA. |
Interesting. This kind of fits in with some things I've noticed happening around here. Though the admin staff and department head are talking about next year as though it's a sure thing we'll be here. |
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Hoost
Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:07 am Post subject: |
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I'd like more details about this mandatory shift to writing.
National Uni gig here...
haven't heard anything yet.. |
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I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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I'd like to see a time soon when Korean universities stop discriminating against foreign instructors.
Koreans are discriminating against foreign academics by offering a two-tiered system of employment: one for foreigners and one for locals. Koreans have automatically been given tenure at universities when they were hired. Properly qualified foreign instructors should also be given the same employment terms when hired at universities. This means equal salary, allowances and benefits.
The current barriers facing foreign instructors at Korean universities are unacceptable. |
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