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Korea's suicide rate triple OECD's average
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3DR



Joined: 24 May 2009

PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

postfundie wrote:
Where are the apologists?? Shouldn't they be in this thread?


Off enjoying their lives instead of teeming through the internet to find more reasons to hate Korea in their free time haha.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The university system the world over seems to be small belts of goodness surrounded by a thick layer of empty filler. Undergrad classes that serve as little more than review. An admissions process either corrupted by some draconian testing system, money, or some lame attempt at societal engineering that does little more than water down the quality of a university education. These days you have a multitude of people who have limited intellectual curiosity, possessing little in the way of knowledge, and little interest in the whole experience beyond it serving as a way to get paid and it basically being a 4 year-long party camp. This seems to be the case back home and in Korea. Before people who didn't want to do such things, but still make decent money went to work at the Ford factory. Now? A clerk at Best Buy.

And one more thing about standardized tests- They may not serve as a great indicator, but they can tell two things: Who is utterly unqualified and who is supremely qualified. Students who score between a 1520-1600 are almost always extraordinarily bright and have the ability to function well in an academic setting. And if you can't get at least an 1100, you probably don't belong in college, no matter how good your grades are. At some point you have to retain your knowledge.
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wooden nickels



Joined: 23 May 2010

PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
The university system the world over seems to be small belts of goodness surrounded by a thick layer of empty filler. Undergrad classes that serve as little more than review. An admissions process either corrupted by some draconian testing system, money, or some lame attempt at societal engineering that does little more than water down the quality of a university education. These days you have a multitude of people who have limited intellectual curiosity, possessing little in the way of knowledge, and little interest in the whole experience beyond it serving as a way to get paid and it basically being a 4 year-long party camp. This seems to be the case back home and in Korea. Before people who didn't want to do such things, but still make decent money went to work at the Ford factory. Now? A clerk at Best Buy.

And one more thing about standardized tests- They may not serve as a great indicator, but they can tell two things: Who is utterly unqualified and who is supremely qualified. Students who score between a 1520-1600 are almost always extraordinarily bright and have the ability to function well in an academic setting. And if you can't get at least an 1100, you probably don't belong in college, no matter how good your grades are. At some point you have to retain your knowledge.


good post
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goreality



Joined: 09 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T-J wrote:

I think everyone agrees suicide is a problem. One is one too many anywhere.

Statistically speaking though a difference of two hundredths of one percent is pretty insignificant.

I don't think the OP is really interested in what the statistics say or don't say though...


Glad you aren't a banker or doing something where mathematical analysis is important. Statically speaking a difference of two hundredths of one percent is very significant when considering suicide rates in large populations. If we were looking at the size of pizza slices I would agree with your point.
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atwood



Joined: 26 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
Instead of annual reports on these numbers, I'd love to see the gov (and related organizations) doing something proactive about it.


Like what, though? High suicide rates in Korea are largely a combination of innate traits (future-oriented thinking and competitiveness) and a culture of obsession with material success. You can't really change the former, so you're left tweaking with the latter. The latter is a prisoner's dilemma though: you toning things down and taking it a bit easier only provides better results for you if your "opponent" does as well.

Provide alternatives to "go to an elite university or consider yourself a failure." Encourage entrepeneurship. Revise the tax code to make it fairer. Figure out a way to make good housing affordable.

Stop ranking students until they are high school juniors. (You need to for valedictorians and such.) Quit promoting Joseon culture and values.

Those are just a few off the top of my head.
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atwood



Joined: 26 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. BlackCat wrote:
optik404 wrote:
Canadians, is that true? No standardized test like the SAT, only HS grades are looked at during the application process?


Well, there's often more to it than that. I had to get reference letters, write a couple of short essays and maybe even include some course work. In some provinces, there are standardized tests that are factored into your grades so it's not like your teacher just pulls a letter out of a hat like SR implies. When I was in high school in Ontario we still had grade 13 (Ontario Academic Credits, OACs) that you had to attend to get into Uni. These had pretty strict guidelines, including independent projects and various other projects (frankly, I found these more challenging than first year Uni classes, besides the amount of work--we only had to take 6 OACs over a year while it was 5 classes per semester at Uni). They don't do that anymore, but I hear there are more standardized tests. The difference being these tests are throughout the year and make up your final grade, instead of one test determining your future.

There may be benefits and deficits in all the systems, but I used to work somewhere that tutored for the SAT. Sorry, but most of what's on there has almost zero basis in what the kid's future. I'm not sure if knowing the definition of aehamic is a good way of judging if he can pass Chemistry 101.

The SATs are for predicting success as a university student. That's their only purpose and one they fulfill fairly well.
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John Stamos jr.



Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Location: Namsan

PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The SAT is probably the best way to weed people out in the US. Almost all of my immediate friends scored over 1300 and I think it generally correlates to intelligence among American individuals. I'm in favor of standardized tests as a gauge, as long as they're administered correctly. They can also be a good intellectual challenge. Explains so much about Canadians, though, how they seep through.

Of course, korean people are usually weird and extreme so their borg society makes non conformity on many levels an unsatisfactory life choice. The old people are broke and cumbersome, the young people are infused with mental/social constrictions and seem existentially lost, and you have a bunch of middle class dudes spending worthless hours in the office all day, just to financially support way more people than they should have to. They're miserable, it's a retardated society and they're a very odd group of people who mostly just tolerate it as much as they can before it's off to line 1. There's too much pressure on everyone and they have trouble opening up those kinds of conversations for public debate, so they remain miserable and power off.
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jazzmaster



Joined: 30 Sep 2013

PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"Of course, korean people are usually weird and extreme so their borg society makes non conformity on many levels an unsatisfactory life choice. The old people are broke and cumbersome, the young people are infused with mental/social constrictions and seem existentially lost, and you have a bunch of middle class dudes spending worthless hours in the office all day, just to financially support way more people than they should have to. They're miserable, it's a retardated society and they're a very odd group of people who mostly just tolerate it as much as they can before it's off to line 1. There's too much pressure on everyone and they have trouble opening up those kinds of conversations for public debate, so they remain miserable and power off.


Spot on.
Most Koreans I know live miserable lives. They work long hours, and never get to see their husband/wife/kids. When they do finish work at a reasonable time they need to go out for dinner and a soju binge with the bosses (if they want that promotion). If they live with their parents, they are constantly reminded of their duties as a son/daughter and put under pressure to marry/have kids/get a promotion. They know they will have to financially look after their parents because the pensions here aren't enough.
Even their sex lives are disrupted. If their parents live with them, they can't have it in their apartment. The females (and to a degree the males) are often encouraged to be as vanilla regarding sex as possible, leading to a lot of suppressed sexual desires. Often the wives won't even have sex with their husbands, leading to a proliferation of massage parlours, red light districts, sex tourism, and perversions among the men. And the females internalize their lack of intimacy by becoming bitter, angry, rude, and asexual. Look around and the 50 and 60 year olds to see what Korean society does to people.

I believe that this may be a reason why some Korean females opt for interracial relationships. It may be a long shot, but they want to be free of the societal tethers which are placed upon them as soon as they are born.

I know if I was Korean I'd be looking for a way out. Sadly, for some the only way out they can see is suicide.
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OneWayTraffic



Joined: 14 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

goreality wrote:
T-J wrote:

I think everyone agrees suicide is a problem. One is one too many anywhere.

Statistically speaking though a difference of two hundredths of one percent is pretty insignificant.

I don't think the OP is really interested in what the statistics say or don't say though...


Glad you aren't a banker or doing something where mathematical analysis is important. Statically speaking a difference of two hundredths of one percent is very significant when considering suicide rates in large populations. If we were looking at the size of pizza slices I would agree with your point.