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Popocatepetl
Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Location: Winter in Korea: One Perfect day after another
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 Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
I would assert that as long as Florida, Texas, et al are executing prisoners and the US is incarcerating people by the truckload, there is little room for criticizing Iran on that count |
Executing convicted murderers -tried in an open court process- is a bit different to widespread and systemic torture of human rights protesters.
http://www.cfr.org/iran/human-rights-iran/p26380 |
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El Bandito
Joined: 07 Oct 2013
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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And we'll know who was behind it. Same country that mouths these words was behind 9/11 all along. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| El Bandito wrote: |
And we'll know who was behind it. Same country that mouths these words was behind 9/11 all along. |
You weren't kidding about liking the Turner Diaries, eh? |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| Popocatepetl wrote: |
| Iran is not a natural ally of America and likely never will be. |
Never's a bit of an exaggeration, no? Up to 40 years ago the relationship looked more like this, and the current government wasn't exactly what those that overthrew the Shah were visualizing when they made it happen, they just happened to be the most adept at moving into the power vacuum when he left. |
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Popocatepetl
Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Location: Winter in Korea: One Perfect day after another
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| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| El Bandito wrote: |
| Same country that mouths these words was behind 9/11 all along. |
We already know that Iran helped plan and facilitate 9/11. 8 of the 10 hijackers passed through Iran and were aided by Iranian agents. We already know that defectors from Irans intelligence service claim that Iranian officials had foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks.
| Quote: |
| And we'll know who was behind it. |
...and we already know who was behind the Iran hostage crisis, the Tyre headquarters bombings, the killing of 58 americans at the US embassy in beirut, the Beirut attacks bombing which killed 241 americans, the hijacking of TWA 847, The 1992 bombing of the Israeli embassy, the bombing of a Jewish community center in Argentina, the Khobar towers attacks (killing 19 US soldiers), the arming of al- quaeda, the training and arming of the Iraqi insurgency, the support of anti-american militias in Iraq including Muqtada Al Sadr, the 2012 bombing in New Delhi, the funding of Hamas, the funding of Hezbollah, the arming of the Taliban, the 2012 cyber attacks against american companies, the fatwa against Salman Rushdie, the Mykonos restaurant assasinations, the 1994 Amia bombing in Buenos Aires, the funding of Islamic Jihad, and the training of islamic militants in Sudan.
Iran was plotting to attack US interests only two months ago.
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| Popocatepetl wrote: |
| El Bandito wrote: |
| Same country that mouths these words was behind 9/11 all along. |
We already know that Iran helped plan and facilitate 9/11. |
What a bunch of horseshit. |
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Popocatepetl
Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Location: Winter in Korea: One Perfect day after another
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| Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:44 am Post subject: |
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| Titus wrote: |
What a bunch of horseshit. |
Why do you think that an islamic state- that commited all the atrocities against the US I mentioned earlier- would suddenly draw the line at a simple aircraft hijacking?
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U.S. DISTRICT COURT RULES IRAN BEHIND 9/11 ATTACKS
December 23, 2011
A federal district court in Manhattan yesterday entered a historic ruling that reveals new facts about Iran's support of al Qaeda in the 9/11 attacks. U.S. District Judge George B. Daniels ruled yesterday that Iran and Hezbollah materially and directly supported al Qaeda in the September 11, 2001 attacks and are legally responsible for damages to hundreds of family members of 9/11 victims who are plaintiffs in the case.
The evidence was developed over a seven-year international investigation by the Havlish attorneys who pursued the 9/11 Commission's recommendation regarding an apparent link between Iran, Hezbollah, and the 9/11 hijackers, following the Commission's own eleventh-hour discovery of significant National Security Agency ("NSA") intercepts.
Judge Daniels also credited Mesbahi's testimony that he received messages during the summer of 2001 from inside the Iranian government that an Iranian contingency plan for unconventional warfare against the U.S. called "Shaitan dar Atash" had been activated. "This is compelling proof that Iran was deeply involved in the 9/11 conspiracy.
Members of the 9/11 Commission staff testified that Iran aided the hijackers by concealing their travel through Iran to access al Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan. Iranian border inspectors refrained from stamping the passports of 8 to 10 of the 9/11 hijackers because evidence of travel through Iran would have prevented the hijackers from obtaining visas at U.S. embassies abroad or gaining entry into the United States. The 9/11 Commission Report addressed these facts and called for further investigation. 9/11 COMMISSION REPORT at pp. 240-41
Mesbahi also testified that in 2000 Iran used front companies to obtain a Boeing 757- 767-777 flight simulator for training the terrorists. Due to U.S. trade sanctions, Iran has never had any Boeing 757-767-777 aircraft, but all the airplanes hijacked on 9/11 were Boeing 757 or 767 aircraft
http://iran911case.com/ |
Armchair propogandists like yourself and yaddabot really ought to try living in reality occasionally. |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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Good good. Some random judge in NY, relying on the Iranian version of Ahmed Chalabi, engages in foreign policy from the bench and declares a Shia state to have been in collaboration with a Sunni organization that has repeatedly attacked it.
Immediately following 9/11 the Iranian government offered full cooperation in Afghanistan. The evil entity known as Netanyahu said 9/11 was "good".
This is setting aside the dancing Israelis, the Israelis arrested with bombs (on 9/11, on route to a bridge) and all kinds of other shenanigans that our excitable pals over there are up to.
Never mind. I'm not going to get into a 9/11 discussion with a guy stuck in 2003.
xxx
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/11/22/the-battle-of-the-titans/
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This is not merely a fight between Israel and the US. Nor is it only a fight between the White House and Congress. It is also a battle between intellectual titans.
On the one side there are the two renowned professors, Stephen Walt and John Mearsheimer. On the other, the towering international intellectual Noam Chomsky.
It’s all about whether the dog wags the tail or the tail wags the dog.
Six years ago the two professors shocked the US (and Israel) when they published a book, “The Israel lobby and US Foreign Policy”, in which they asserted that the foreign policy of the United States of America, at least in the Middle East, is practically controlled by the State of Israel.
To paraphrase their analysis, Washington DC is in effect an Israeli colony. Both the Senate and the House of Representatives are Israeli occupied territories, much like Ramallah and Nablus.
This is diametrically opposed to the assertion of Noam Chomsky that Israel is a US pawn, used by American imperialism as an instrument to promote its interests.
(I commented at the time that both sides were right, and that this is a unique dog-tail relationship. I even quoted the old Jewish joke about the rabbi who tells a plaintiff that he is right, and then says the same to the defendant. “But they can’t both be right!” remonstrates his wife. “You are right, too!” he answers.)
Intellectual theories can seldom be put to a laboratory test. But this one can.
It is happening now. Between Israel and the US a crisis has developed, and it has come into the open.
It’s about the putative Iranian nuclear bomb. President Barack Obama is determined to avert a military showdown. Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu is determined to prevent a compromise.
For Netanyahu, the Iranian nuclear effort has become a defining issue, even an obsession. He talks about it incessantly. He has declared that it is an “existential” threat to Israel, that it poses the possibility of a second Holocaust. Last year he made an exhibition of himself at the UN General Assembly meeting with his childish drawing of the bomb.
Cynics say that this is only a trick, a successful gimmick to divert the world’s attention away from the Palestinian issue. And indeed, for years now the Israeli policy of occupation and settlements has has been advancing quietly, away from the limelight.
But in politics, one gimmick can serve several purposes at once. Netanyahu is serious about the Iranian bomb. The proof: on this issue he is ready to do something that no Israeli prime minister has ever dared to do before: endanger Israeli-American relations.
This is a momentous decision. Israel is dependent on the US in almost every respect. The US pays Israel a yearly tribute of at least three billion dollars, and in fact much more. It gives us state of the art military equipment. Its veto protects us from UN Security Council censure, whatever we do.
We have no other unconditional friend in the world, except, perhaps, the Fiji Islands.
If there is one thing on which practically all Israelis agree, it is this subject. A break with the US is unthinkable. The US-Israeli relationship is, to use a Hebrew expression much loved by Netanyahu , “the rock of our existence”.
So what does he think he is doing?
NETANYAHU WAS brought up in the US. There he attended high school and university. There he started his career.
He does not need advisors on US affairs. He considers himself the smartest expert of all.
He is no fool. Neither is he an adventurer. He bases himself on solid assessments. He believes that he is able to win this fight.
You could say that he is an adherent of the Walt-Mearsheimer doctrine. |
The most frustrating aspect of this whole ordeal is seeing Congress lining up against Obama. Congress is representing the interests of a foreign nation against a POTUS doing the opposite. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I presume that you side with Walt and Mearsheimer on this. It's incredible the backlash that their book got. I was talking to someone and I brought up something John Mearsheimer said, something unrelated to Israel, and they completely discounted him as a source because of that book, even though he is considered at the top of his field in all other ways. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Armchair propogandists like yourself and yaddabot really ought to try living in reality occasionally. |
There was a time when some people I hung out with said that reality is highly over-rated. It was a joke and everyone took it as such. Then along came the neocons who said the US created its own reality by acting. Quite a few conservatives were blindsided on election when that didn't turn out to be true. |
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RangerMcGreggor
Joined: 12 Jan 2011
Location: Somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
Somewhat surprisingly, Jewish Americans vote for Dems at about a 70% rate. It will be interesting to see if that cohort will support the administration or take a more pro-Israel line on this matter. |
Jewish Americans are a pretty diverse lot. I know quiet a few who are generally "doves" or not big fans of Israel in it's current state. I also have not met an American Jew that likes Netanyahu. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| This could be a game changer in the Mid east. Iran carved out a sizable position after 9/11. Now turkey and Israel are pushing back and the Iranian kurds are making noises. Iran needs the West in many ways. Money , technology. Remember Iran always made it's living as the middleman between East and West. This could be very interesting. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:29 am Post subject: |
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The neo-cons reaction to this has been so predictable:
Geneva = Munich
Khamenei = Hitler
Obama = Chamberlain
Netanyahu = Churchill |
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Popocatepetl
Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Location: Winter in Korea: One Perfect day after another
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| Titus wrote: |
This is setting aside the dancing Israelis, |
That has been conclusively and exhaustively debunked. http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Dancing_Israelis
-if filming the event on camcorders indicates foreknowledge then you'd better arrest half of New York.
| Tit wrote: |
| the Israelis arrested with bombs (on 9/11, on route to a bridge) |
Once again.... thoroughly and comprehensively debunked.
| Titus wrote: |
| Never mind. I'm not going to get into a 9/11 discussion with a guy stuck in 2003. |
2003? The ruling and the court evidence was from December 2011.
I guess we're lucky that unintelligent racists like yourself rarely advance to positions of actual authority or influence in this world.  |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| Popocatepetl wrote: |
| Titus wrote: |
This is setting aside the dancing Israelis, |
That has been conclusively and exhaustively debunked. http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Dancing_Israelis
-if filming the event on camcorders indicates foreknowledge then you'd better arrest half of New York.
| Tit wrote: |
| the Israelis arrested with bombs (on 9/11, on route to a bridge) |
Once again.... thoroughly and comprehensively debunked.
| Titus wrote: |
| Never mind. I'm not going to get into a 9/11 discussion with a guy stuck in 2003. |
2003? The ruling and the court evidence was from December 2011.
I guess we're lucky that unintelligent racists like yourself rarely advance to positions of actual authority or influence in this world. |
This is pretty funny, two people arguing over conspiracies. The Israelis did it, no it was the Persians, you're racist, etc. Why is it racist to say the Israelis did it, but not racist to say the Persians did it? |
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