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fustiancorduroy
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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 Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| sendittheemail wrote: |
It's more like this:
You have a foreign restaurant (lets say Indian food, Italian or Burgers). A large chunk of your clients are foreigners who have experienced Indian food, Italian and burgers in other places outside of Korea, and thus have a higher standard or level of expectations. |
I wouldn't say that their standards are higher so much as different. Most of the foreigners living in HBC aren't exactly the most epicurean, well-traveled individuals; they are mostly 20-somethings who want food that tastes like it does in their home countries. That isn't necessarily authentic or of a higher standard, just different.
| sendittheemail wrote: |
| Koreans also stupidly believe that higher prices mean better quality. |
Are you saying that there is no logical basis to assume that more expensive foods are made with better ingredients? Of course there is. Usually, more expensive foods ARE better. A fine steak made with pure beef is going to be much more expensive than a fast food hamburger made with various fillers and beef parts because it's better food. In general, that holds true for restaurants in Korea. What you are referring to is a small number of places trying to rip off their customers, of which there are growing number in HBC and Itaewon. But certainly not all expensive restaurants. |
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| optik404 wrote: |
| I think any real chef or owner that is passionate about food isn't going to dumb down the food to make a quick buck. |
True, and those restaurants with decision-makers who have a passion for their product won't do that. They will probably charge more though, because why wouldn't they?
Example? Look at Tartine; the products are still the same quality as they always were, but the prices have gone through the roof. |
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fustiancorduroy
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| cdninkorea wrote: |
| optik404 wrote: |
| I think any real chef or owner that is passionate about food isn't going to dumb down the food to make a quick buck. |
True, and those restaurants with decision-makers who have a passion for their product won't do that. They will probably charge more though, because why wouldn't they?
Example? Look at Tartine; the products are still the same quality as they always were, but the prices have gone through the roof. |
Tartine has always been expensive. Good, but expensive. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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Basically the 20-something crowd expects restaurants to serve food that tastes just like back home, for under 10,000 won a pop, made with authentic ingredients and prepared from scratch, served by a staff who has a fluent grasp of the English language, and for the establishment to cater to the whims of the 1% rather than the 99% around them, for landlords to sacrifice their profits for the good of "culinary diversity", for all new restaurants to meet some ephemeral standard of waygookness, to prohibit the free transaction of real-estate, for restaurants not to respond to their clientele, and for economic conditions to remain static.
As I said, you want it to stay? Get you skinflint friends to actually spend a bit of their paycheck and not freak out at the idea of dropping 20-30 bucks on a meal. Money talks. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| sendittheemail wrote: |
It's more like this:
You have a foreign restaurant (lets say Indian food, Italian or Burgers). A large chunk of your clients are foreigners who have experienced Indian food, Italian and burgers in other places outside of Korea, and thus have a higher standard or level of expectations. You cater your menu towards being more authentic, and thus you have to use things like imported pickles, good buns, authentic spices etc. otherwise your foreign customers aren't going to come. After all, they can get crappy Korean Italian food anywhere in the city. Same for burgers and to a lesser extent, even Indian these days.
Suddenly an influx of new customers arrives without the same standards and expectations. They care more about the look of the food and the design of the restaurant. They have little to no experience with foreign food, aside from what they've had in Korea. You no longer really need to spend the extra time and get the best ingredients. You are meeting a different standard; the Korean standard. Furthermore, the new customers are not coming to your place because it is special, they are coming to your place because now Itaewon is "trendy" and "special". Most of these people never ate in your place before, so if you change the menu, or substitute sweet pickles for the standard pickles you used to use, nobody will care/notice. Most of these people have never had "real" foreign food, so you can cut corners, and as long as everything looks pretty, they will keep coming. Since they are Korean and many of them mooching off of their parents, you can ratchet up the prices, department store style, and stupidly they will still pay.
Koreans are more concerned about the prettiness of the restaurant, and the speed of service. Koreans also stupidly believe that higher prices mean better quality. As a business owner, you can recognize this, and gouge, gouge, gouge them by charging more and reducing portions, and substitute local crap instead of good ingredients because you realize that the popularity that Itaewon is currently experiencing may not last forever, and so you take, take, take what you can get now while the getting is good. Essentially, you do what the Koreans already do in other parts of town; you charge as much as possible while delivering as little as possible with little to no concern about authenticity. Foreigners? Who cares; they are 10% of your total clientele now.
If prices and quality stays the same, then essentially, you can say that relatively speaking, quality has gone down, because the value for money ratio has changed. The quality of your dining experience has gone down because you pay more but get nothing in exchange for the price increase. |
Seems a Korean business model for all types of businesses, not just Itaewon restaurants. Everything from health clubs, to English Academies, Coffee shops, or whatever. Although some think 'long term', it seems much less compared to western businesses. Never can figure out the why or rationale to it. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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So, what is this place Jocoby Burger? I've heard it mentioned on here. Looked it up. Is it a Korean style hamburger?
http://www.onlyitaewon.com/jacobys-burger.html
I ordered a burger once at a restaurant at Gwanghalli Beach. It was the biggest overpriced rip off ever. I got exactly 3 fries and a burger that tasted like school cafeteria fake meat. Ran into that a couple of times during my years here. Lotteria burgers had that taste, though I haven't eaten on of those lately.
Is this the Jacoby's place or is it real? Just curious, I guess. |
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wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| sendittheemail wrote: |
It's more like this:
You have a foreign restaurant (lets say Indian food, Italian or Burgers). A large chunk of your clients are foreigners who have experienced Indian food, Italian and burgers in other places outside of Korea, and thus have a higher standard or level of expectations. You cater your menu towards being more authentic, and thus you have to use things like imported pickles, good buns, authentic spices etc. otherwise your foreign customers aren't going to come. After all, they can get crappy Korean Italian food anywhere in the city. Same for burgers and to a lesser extent, even Indian these days.
Suddenly an influx of new customers arrives without the same standards and expectations. They care more about the look of the food and the design of the restaurant. They have little to no experience with foreign food, aside from what they've had in Korea. You no longer really need to spend the extra time and get the best ingredients. You are meeting a different standard; the Korean standard. Furthermore, the new customers are not coming to your place because it is special, they are coming to your place because now Itaewon is "trendy" and "special". Most of these people never ate in your place before, so if you change the menu, or substitute sweet pickles for the standard pickles you used to use, nobody will care/notice. Most of these people have never had "real" foreign food, so you can cut corners, and as long as everything looks pretty, they will keep coming. Since they are Korean and many of them mooching off of their parents, you can ratchet up the prices, department store style, and stupidly they will still pay. |
i find this hysterical. i'm fairly confident in saying that most foreigners here have not experienced indian food in india nor italian food in italy. just because they think they've experienced the real deal in america/canada/wherehaveyou, they most likely haven't.
here's a hint: italian food in most countries besides italy is not authentic italian food. this goes the same for chinese food, korean food, etc. your thinking that most of the untraveled cretins that live in itaewon are demanding wordly food connoisseurs is just laughable. |
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cabeza
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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From someone who has travelled pretty extensively in India I can safely say that if you want to experience a genuine curry back home (NZ in my case) you could travel about 10 minutes from anywhere in the city to find real, good quality Indian food.
Of course there is also the over creamed stodge available, but that is much closer to Indian, then the Japanese curry that is consumed here in Korea. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
So, what is this place Jocoby Burger? I've heard it mentioned on here. Looked it up. Is it a Korean style hamburger?
[...]
Is this the Jacoby's place or is it real? Just curious, I guess. |
Their burgers are decent enough to me, but I stopped going when they started getting lines to get in. The service was notoriously slow even when they didn't have crowds.
Koreans generally get the tower burger thing pictured in that link, but their less ambitious creations are not that far-fetched. Just be sure to get there three hours before you expect to be hungry. |
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optik404
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
| sendittheemail wrote: |
It's more like this:
You have a foreign restaurant (lets say Indian food, Italian or Burgers). A large chunk of your clients are foreigners who have experienced Indian food, Italian and burgers in other places outside of Korea, and thus have a higher standard or level of expectations. You cater your menu towards being more authentic, and thus you have to use things like imported pickles, good buns, authentic spices etc. otherwise your foreign customers aren't going to come. After all, they can get crappy Korean Italian food anywhere in the city. Same for burgers and to a lesser extent, even Indian these days.
Suddenly an influx of new customers arrives without the same standards and expectations. They care more about the look of the food and the design of the restaurant. They have little to no experience with foreign food, aside from what they've had in Korea. You no longer really need to spend the extra time and get the best ingredients. You are meeting a different standard; the Korean standard. Furthermore, the new customers are not coming to your place because it is special, they are coming to your place because now Itaewon is "trendy" and "special". Most of these people never ate in your place before, so if you change the menu, or substitute sweet pickles for the standard pickles you used to use, nobody will care/notice. Most of these people have never had "real" foreign food, so you can cut corners, and as long as everything looks pretty, they will keep coming. Since they are Korean and many of them mooching off of their parents, you can ratchet up the prices, department store style, and stupidly they will still pay. |
i find this hysterical. i'm fairly confident in saying that most foreigners here have not experienced indian food in india nor italian food in italy. just because they think they've experienced the real deal in america/canada/wherehaveyou, they most likely haven't.
here's a hint: italian food in most countries besides italy is not authentic italian food. this goes the same for chinese food, korean food, etc. your thinking that most of the untraveled cretins that live in itaewon are demanding wordly food connoisseurs is just laughable. |
Clearly not all italian, chinese, korean restaurants in the US, Canada, wherever are going to be authentic dishes. But you're kidding yourself if you can't find authentic cuisine from most cultures in an English speaking country. This notion that unless you go the the actual country, it's not authentic is ridiculous. |
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wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| optik404 wrote: |
| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
| sendittheemail wrote: |
It's more like this:
You have a foreign restaurant (lets say Indian food, Italian or Burgers). A large chunk of your clients are foreigners who have experienced Indian food, Italian and burgers in other places outside of Korea, and thus have a higher standard or level of expectations. You cater your menu towards being more authentic, and thus you have to use things like imported pickles, good buns, authentic spices etc. otherwise your foreign customers aren't going to come. After all, they can get crappy Korean Italian food anywhere in the city. Same for burgers and to a lesser extent, even Indian these days.
Suddenly an influx of new customers arrives without the same standards and expectations. They care more about the look of the food and the design of the restaurant. They have little to no experience with foreign food, aside from what they've had in Korea. You no longer really need to spend the extra time and get the best ingredients. You are meeting a different standard; the Korean standard. Furthermore, the new customers are not coming to your place because it is special, they are coming to your place because now Itaewon is "trendy" and "special". Most of these people never ate in your place before, so if you change the menu, or substitute sweet pickles for the standard pickles you used to use, nobody will care/notice. Most of these people have never had "real" foreign food, so you can cut corners, and as long as everything looks pretty, they will keep coming. Since they are Korean and many of them mooching off of their parents, you can ratchet up the prices, department store style, and stupidly they will still pay. |
i find this hysterical. i'm fairly confident in saying that most foreigners here have not experienced indian food in india nor italian food in italy. just because they think they've experienced the real deal in america/canada/wherehaveyou, they most likely haven't.
here's a hint: italian food in most countries besides italy is not authentic italian food. this goes the same for chinese food, korean food, etc. your thinking that most of the untraveled cretins that live in itaewon are demanding wordly food connoisseurs is just laughable. |
Clearly not all italian, chinese, korean restaurants in the US, Canada, wherever are going to be authentic dishes. But you're kidding yourself if you can't find authentic cuisine from most cultures in an English speaking country. This notion that unless you go the the actual country, it's not authentic is ridiculous. |
clearly. the fact you had to expound on that makes me think you're quite defensive about this topic. of course you can find authentic cuisine from most cultures in many places outside of the culture. however, most "foreign food" in places outside of where said food would originally be found is tailored to a certain demographic (see american chinese food, places like olive garden, etc) and if you can't see that then the only person who is kidding themselves is yourself. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| fustiancorduroy wrote: |
| sendittheemail wrote: |
It's more like this:
You have a foreign restaurant (lets say Indian food, Italian or Burgers). A large chunk of your clients are foreigners who have experienced Indian food, Italian and burgers in other places outside of Korea, and thus have a higher standard or level of expectations. |
I wouldn't say that their standards are higher so much as different. |
If "different" means less food with less flavor, lesser ingredients, and not prepared as well as it could have been, then yeah it's certainly different.
No. Most foreigners have higher standards for western style foreign food than Koreans do. To make your average Korean happy with the food, it just has to look good enough to take the photo and upload it to Kakao story or Facebook. Then, the restaurant has to appear good enough to take a date to for yet another picture. Actual flavor isn't much of a factor.
Example: half the pasta you get here is much worse than a what a drunk college roommate would make at 2AM. I made better pasta at age 12 I think. But the worst part is you're paying like 25,000 won or more for it sometimes.
And lets not even talk about the cocktails they can't make (a.k.a massacre). A "mojito" (IF they even know what that is in the first place), for 14,000 won that's basically crushed ice, cider, and some random green plants thrown into it.
There's a lot of western dishes here that just aren't done properly, done with bad ingredients, crazy prices, and nobody cares except foreigners who know the difference.
That's what a lot of these complaints are about: we KNOW we're getting shafted with crap food for crap prices... but THEY DON'T. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| sendittheemail wrote: |
Sad what has happened to Itaewon. Cosmetically, it has improved (the Koreans are good at giving face lifts), but the quality of the crowd has seen a major decline, |
Yeah, it's not just about the food, it's about the whole vibe to the place.
I was never that into Itaewon, but it was the ONLY place to go when you wanted something different and didn't want to deal with the typical Korean vibe. And the Koreans that went there were usually not your average Koreans; they were usually more open to foreigners and new things. That's not really the case now.
Speaking of "the crowd", seems like it's either ultra-trendy hipster snobs with daddy's credit card, OR... complete scumbags. Where's the middle ground lately? |
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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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| Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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was talking to a colleague and apparently the reason why Kyungnidan has exploded with Korean hipsters is that some Kpop star was spotted as a regular at one of the places and now they swarm there.
Back to the food quality topic that is so true with the western chains that come here and get Koreanized. When On the Border first opened up in Sinchon back in 2007, we went there a lot because management from the Dallas HQ were there training and do quality assurance, it was good. As soon as they left and the Korean management took over the food quality went down and the prices went up but the locals still seem to love it. Its why we've never gone back to one. We won't go near the new one that opened in Itaewon last week |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
was talking to a colleague and apparently the reason why Kyungnidan has exploded with Korean hipsters is that some Kpop star was spotted as a regular at one of the places and now they swarm there.
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I heard a while back that K Pop stars liked hanging out in Itaewon as they never got any hassle from people who who had no idea who they were. I suppose all that's changed now. |
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