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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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 Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Alcohol's deadly, man. It killed Keith Whitley, Jim Morrison, Amy Winehouse, Jimi Hendrix, Jeff Hanneman, Bix Beiderbecke, John Bonham, Billie Holiday, Ron McKernan, Jani Lane, Bon Scott, and many others. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Alcohol's deadly, man. It killed Keith Whitley, Jim Morrison, Amy Winehouse, Jimi Hendrix, Jeff Hanneman, Bix Beiderbecke, John Bonham, Billie Holiday, Ron McKernan, Jani Lane, Bon Scott, and many others. |
What?
The cause of Whitely's death remains controversial with the man who claimed his death was due to alcohol poisoning being stripped of his license later. Plus the M.E was convicted of several cases of medical fraud.
By all accounts Morrison died of a heroin overdose not alcohol.
Amy Winehouse...Congrats you got one right!
Jimi Hendrix died of a barbiturate overdose not alcohol.
Jeff Hanneman okay another you got right
Beiderbecke died of lobor pneumonia...alcoholism may or may not have been a factor...note factor not cause.
John Bonham died of asphyxiation..he choked on his own vomit. He was drunk at the time so didn't wake up...but that was a factor and not the actual cause.
Billie Holiday died of a pulmonary edema and heart failure...although the heart failure was bought on by her liver failing due to drink...so I'll give you half a point for that.
McKernan died of Crohn's disease NOT alcohol. It is popularly thought that he did die to drink...but that is wrong.
As for Lane and Scott it seems you may be right although there is also considerable controversy surrounding Scott's death.
So out of the eleven you posted...five were flat out wrong, 2 controversial with only 4 being verified as fully/partially correct (see Billie Holiday) |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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What a load of crap you have written. Alcohol killed those people.
You picked that conspiracy crap from wikipedia I see (to try to discredit me).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Whitley#Alcoholism_and_death
You think someone murdered him? He was a known heavy drinker.
About the Jim Morrison, a (single) relatively recent account says he was so drunk he mistook heroin for coke and subsequently ODed on that. So yeah alcohol killed him pretty much. Alcohol causes people to make bad and stupid choices (look at the OP for example). Alcohol takes away people's judgement and perceptions. That's why people OD while drunk because they can't feel how high they are/can't perceive/remember/care about how much of the drug they took. If someone drinks alcohol then drives a car and crashes into a tree and dies, what killed them? The tree or the alcohol? Jimi Hendrix died from choking on his own vomit. If he hadn't had alcohol that night he wouldn't have died. The other drugs alone wouldn't have been enough to kill him. Mixed with alcohol they did. And because he was drunk enough to be over the legal limit, he wasn't able to properly gauge how much he was putting into his body. How about Keith Moon? He died from the drug that was supposed to help him quit his addiction to alcohol. So did alcohol kill him? I think it did. Where are you getting that McKernan did not die from alcohol?
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| A heavy drinker since his teenage years, McKernan was diagnosed with liver damage in 1970, which eventually forced him to stop touring in 1972. He died the next year. |
Now, how many rock stars died from weed? None at all. That's why I'm right when I say ganja is safer than booze. No matter how much you want to nitpick about each individual death, I am correct on that. |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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| . Here's a question for you: which were better- the Beatles pre-acid experience or post? |
Here's a question for you. Who was better - Syd Barrett per-acid experience or post? Or numerous other rock stars whose lives were destroyed by drugs. I do prefer later Beatles but who's to say they weren't maturing anyway. In the end they spilt up mainly due to John Lennon's heroin addiction. |
What a load of rubbish. John Lennon's heroin addiction came later. During his time with the Beatles he took LSD heavily at one stage and that was roughly 1966 to some time in 1968. After the Beatles split up he took heroin regularly for a period in the 70s with Yoko, an absolute waste of his talent.
The Beatles' split was a natural progession, they'd seen it all and done it all and were sick of it all. Paul was the one that the other Beatles were pissed off with around 1969 and beyond and when he and Lennon hired rival lawyers to try and sort out the group's finances, the rift widened. Some years later George Harrison said he didn't care that Paul wasn't with him and Ringo when the Beatles were inducted into the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame.
Paul McCartney always manged to be the nice one in the eyes of the public but the real story is one of his jealousy and some darker aspects like playing around with black magic and having connections with Charles Manson which to this day are ignored or excused as not true. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
What a load of crap you have written. Alcohol killed those people.
You picked that conspiracy crap from wikipedia I see (to try to discredit me).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Whitley#Alcoholism_and_death
You think someone murdered him? He was a known heavy drinker.
About the Jim Morrison, a (single) relatively recent account says he was so drunk he mistook heroin for coke and subsequently ODed on that. So yeah alcohol killed him pretty much. Alcohol causes people to make bad and stupid choices (look at the OP for example). Alcohol takes away people's judgement and perceptions. That's why people OD while drunk because they can't feel how high they are/can't perceive/remember/care about how much of the drug they took. If someone drinks alcohol then drives a car and crashes into a tree and dies, what killed them? The tree or the alcohol? Jimi Hendrix died from choking on his own vomit. If he hadn't had alcohol that night he wouldn't have died. The other drugs alone wouldn't have been enough to kill him. Mixed with alcohol they did. And because he was drunk enough to be over the legal limit, he wasn't able to properly gauge how much he was putting into his body. How about Keith Moon? He died from the drug that was supposed to help him quit his addiction to alcohol. So did alcohol kill him? I think it did. Where are you getting that McKernan did not die from alcohol?
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| A heavy drinker since his teenage years, McKernan was diagnosed with liver damage in 1970, which eventually forced him to stop touring in 1972. He died the next year. |
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About Keith Whitely...I never said I thought someone murdered him. Where do you come up with this nonsense? I said there was considerable controversy surrounding his death. That is a fact...it remains a fact and since the person who diagnosed the death was stripped of his license to practice medicine and the M.E. was convicted of medical fraud...it is not a simple case of conspiracy theory.
Jim Morrison died of a heroin overdose...link to this single account that says he was so drunk he mistook heroin for coke? Regardless I would take several accounts over one.
Jimi Hendrix died from asphyxiation...not from alcohol. That remains a fact and that was listed as the cause of his death. It is simply playing at semantics to state otherwise.
What about Keith Moon? He wasn't on your original list and anyway that's another case of playing at semantics.
As for McKernan. He died of Crohn's disease which several links state including Wiki.
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| On March 8, 1973, he was found dead of a gastrointestinal hemorrhage at his home in Corte Madera, California. Contrary to the popular belief that he died from cirrhosis caused by excessive alcohol consumption, he in fact succumbed to Crohn's disease which also claimed the life of his brother Kevin. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Contrary to the popular belief that he died from cirrhosis caused by excessive alcohol consumption, he in fact succumbed to Crohn's disease which also claimed the life of his brother Kevin.[citation needed] |
You do know anyone can edit Wikipedia, don't you? Do you have any source for that hearsay?
Anyways, alcohol screwed up his body so badly he was unable to continue touring. (He should have stuck to weed.)
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| Jim Morrison died of a heroin overdose |
One person claimed he was so drunk he mistook heroin for coke and snorted that in a drunken state. Many people saw at the bar the night of his death, drinking heavily, wasted out of his mind, and reeking of booze. (It's pretty clear alcohol played a role in his death.) You shouldn't say with certainty it was just heroin that killed him. You don't know that.
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| Pursuant to French law, no autopsy was performed because the medical examiner stated that there was no evidence of foul play. |
Last edited by World Traveler on Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Are we seriously arguing over drugs vs. alcohol when it comes to musicians, actors, and artists? Those are the kinds of people that SHOULD be doing that crap. Can you imagine Hank Williams without the booze? Take out the booze and what you're left with is crappy hipster straight edge bands. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Brian Wilson did LSD. Pet Sounds followed. The Beatles did acid. Revolver followed. Great albums. The best of all time. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
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| Contrary to the popular belief that he died from cirrhosis caused by excessive alcohol consumption, he in fact succumbed to Crohn's disease which also claimed the life of his brother Kevin.[citation needed] |
You do know anyone can edit Wikipedia, don't you? Do you have any source for that hearsay?
Anyways, alcohol screwed up his body so badly he was unable to continue touring. (He should have stuck to weed.)
| Quote: |
| Jim Morrison died of a heroin overdose |
One person claimed he was so drunk he mistook heroin for coke and snorted that in a drunken state. Many people saw at the bar the night of his death, drinking heavily, wasted out of his mind, and reeking of booze. (It's pretty clear alcohol played a role in his death.) You shouldn't say with certainty it was just heroin that killed him. You don't know that.
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| Pursuant to French law, no autopsy was performed because the medical examiner stated that there was no evidence of foul play. |
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Do YOU have any source for your claim that alcohol killed McKernan? You made the original claim so the burden of proof is on you.
Re: Jim Morrison: According to most accounts including several people (two of whom knew him well enough to attend his funeral) who got the story from Pamela Courson, he collapsed shortly after taking heroin. This is NOT what I'm saying...but what THEY are saying. The official stance is that he died from heart failure.
And you are a fine one to state "You shouldn't say with certainty it was just heroin that killed him" when just a few posts back you were saying with certainty it was alcohol that killed him.
Yes alcohol may have played a factor in his death. But it was never mentioned as the CAUSE of his death. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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TUM, are you sure it was Chron's disease? I can't find any sources for that (except for those copied and pasted from the [citation needed] Wikipedia assertion. Regardless, did you know:
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| Crohn's disease seems to be caused by a combination of environmental factors and genetic predisposition |
Alcohol and Chron's disease are an unhealthy combination. Alcohol is not a good thing to put in one's body. It is toxic. (Same with cigarettes.) Marijuana and hallucinogens, and the other hand, are healthy and safe. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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TUM, here is the account:
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In the early hours of 3 July 1971, the underground disco was heaving with 500 revellers, including 24-year-old British siren Marianne Faithfull who had recently split up with Mick Jagger. Morrison, who was living in Paris with his girlfriend Pamela Courson, arrived at about 1am.
"I greeted Jim as I always did," recalled Bernett from his home in Paris.
"He didn't look in great form, and immediately went to his usual spot at the bar and ordered a bottle of vodka. He was also drinking beers. |
Alcohol: a gateway drug. It causes people to do foolish things and make bad choices. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Marijuana and hallucinogens, and the other hand, are healthy and safe. |
Not always
http://www.samhsa.gov/newsroom/advisories/1312020920.aspx
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Over a six-year period, Ecstasy-related emergency department visits rose 128 percent for those younger than 21
Hospital emergency department visits related to the dangerous hallucinogenic drug Ecstasy, sometimes known as “Molly,” increased 128 percent between 2005 and 2011 (from 4,460 visits in 2005 to 10,176 visits in 2011) for visits among patients younger than 21 years old, according to a new report from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA). |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Brian Wilson did LSD. Pet Sounds followed. The Beatles did acid. Revolver followed. Great albums. The best of all time. |
Brian Wilson says Pet Sounds was mostly written on pot. Smile was his attempt to write a full album on LSD but "drugs helped the creativity but also created the conditions where you couldn't release that album".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPYHNXXHUVg
I have no real dog in this fight, but drugs and alcohol are both very dangerous. As foreign teachers in Korea I feel it's best to be as conservative in regards to drugs and alcohol as possible. I realize you have a degree of anonymity on this forum, but I'd be careful with the comments and sentiments you post. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| As foreign teachers in Korea I feel it's best to be as conservative in regards to drugs and alcohol as possible. I realize you have a degree of anonymity on this forum, but I'd be careful with the comments and sentiments you post. |
I understand. I'll follow that guideline with a comment that will result in no negative reaction from this board or Koreans- The Beatles suck. Can everyone please just shut up about them. Yes they have a few songs that don't make me immediately want to throw their CD out of my car window, but then again, so does Sir-Mix-A-Lot.
Paul McCartney...blah blah blah...Super Bowl Halftime show...blah blah blah...greatest band ever...blah blah blah...
When will these four yahoos be finally put out to grass? |
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