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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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 Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| drcrazy wrote: |
| Well, this is KOREA!!!!! The vast majority of foreign language teachers in the USA are NOT native speakers. And I have had tons of pre-service and in service teachers from Elementary-High School over very many years, and they are all very well qualified, and far better than Elementary-High School foreign language teachers in the USA. |
The point? |
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drcrazy
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Location: Pusan. Yes, that's right. Pusan NOT Busan. I ain't never been to no place called Busan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| drcrazy wrote: |
| Well, this is KOREA!!!!! The vast majority of foreign language teachers in the USA are NOT native speakers. And I have had tons of pre-service and in service teachers from Elementary-High School over very many years, and they are all very well qualified, and far better than Elementary-High School foreign language teachers in the USA. |
The point? |
The point is there are too many native speaking teachers in Korea. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| drcrazy wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| drcrazy wrote: |
| Well, this is KOREA!!!!! The vast majority of foreign language teachers in the USA are NOT native speakers. And I have had tons of pre-service and in service teachers from Elementary-High School over very many years, and they are all very well qualified, and far better than Elementary-High School foreign language teachers in the USA. |
The point? |
The point is there are too many native speaking teachers in Korea. |
That could be true is cuts become significant and IF Hakwons do not pick up the slack from PS cuts. It WILL be true in a couple of decades however. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| drcrazy wrote: |
| And I have had tons of pre-service and in service from Elementary-High School teachers over very many years, and they are all very well qualified, |
Changing your original quote ever so slightly...and well...
| drcrazy wrote: |
| and far better than Elementary-High School foreign language teachers in the USA. |
Have you had tons of service from them, too?
This doctor makes house calls.  |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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PatrickGHBusan hath spoken. The market is not over saturated. It will not reach that point until a couple of decades into the future.  O RLY? |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan hath spoken. The market is not over saturated. It will not reach that point until a couple of decades into the future. O RLY? |
When did I say the market was not over saturated?
I said the demand for teachers is changing and am discussing how this might occur.
Lets be clear as you seem to need extra clarity WT: the market has been an employer's market since roughly 2008ish. There have been more applicants than there are jobs and by a rather wide margin it seems.
Naturally, in any such market, employers having the big end of the stick, conditions are titlted towards the employer.
Nevertheless, the market in Korea is still quite hungry for English Teachers and the decline will not occur overnight.
Now, PS positions are vulnerable these days since the K-economy is not firing on all cylinders. As such ANY publically funded programs get looked at harder, more so those that were always meant to be temporary or gap filling measures (ex: EPIK). IF such programs are cut, the demand for teachers will likely not vanish into thin air. Hakwons will likely pick up the slack (wether thats godo or bad for foreign teachers is debatable) and thus the job market will shift even more towards Hakwons.....for now anyway.
Down the road you get DEMOGRAPHIC IMPACT. Whats that? The result of an abysmal birth rate in Korea means schools will have fewer students and hence fewer teachers will be required. In such a shrinking market, foreign labor gets the shaft and this is completely normal as every nation on the planet will favour its citizens over foreign labor when it comes to jobs. This is become demographic impact takes TIME WT, it does not happen overnight.
Now if for some reason Hakwons do not pick up the slack and PS programs are drastically cut, then yes WT, FTs will be in tough, especially those with lower qualifications and lack of experience as entry-level positions will become rarer and rarer.
Bascially the current market has more applicants than jobs and on top of that is maturing. So, play your cards accordingly or be left on the side of the road.
As an ESL-EFL teacher, other destinations are certainly emerging (ex: China). |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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I saw this on the China forum: (Sounds a lot like Korea.)
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| Without hyperbole, it is true that the cost of living has gone up the last few years and salaries have stagnated. As well, universities often asked for 12-14 hours five years ago, and are now asking 18-20 for the same crappy salary. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| And don't be stupid about the IC issue. You look like a fool now. Anyone making the claim that it's illegal to be an IC as an E2 is admitting to be an idiot. |
,___,
{O,o}
|)``)
| Quote: |
| The courts have ruled that the system did not comply with the Labor Standards Act, which takes precedence over contractual agreements. |
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20150617001095 |
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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
(And you have no proof the independent contractor scam is legal. You just claim it is.)
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I have proven repeatedly that it is legal to be an IC on an E2.
No one, inlcuding you, has ever shown any evidence, let alone proof, to the contrary. |
uuuuuuu, a Judge and The Court did.
By the way, ontheway must have taken on a new name here. He never posts under his old name.
LMAO 
hmm, who could he be? |
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JohnML
Joined: 05 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| drcrazy wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| drcrazy wrote: |
| Well, this is KOREA!!!!! The vast majority of foreign language teachers in the USA are NOT native speakers. And I have had tons of pre-service and in service teachers from Elementary-High School over very many years, and they are all very well qualified, and far better than Elementary-High School foreign language teachers in the USA. |
The point? |
The point is there are too many native speaking teachers in Korea. |
I'd extend that to be; "There are too many qualified and unqualified teachers, working/not working within industry." Yeah there are plenty of non native teachers across the board in the US who are far better and more qualified than the average joe teaching English in Korea.
However there are also lots of really qualified individuals here and many people are coming over with lots of qualifications because public schools in the US pay peanuts compared to the living costs, so those jobs are even more competitive than the low level ones!
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan hath spoken. The market is not over saturated. It will not reach that point until a couple of decades into the future. O RLY? |
When did I say the market was not over saturated?
I said the demand for teachers is changing and am discussing how this might occur.
Lets be clear as you seem to need extra clarity WT: the market has been an employer's market since roughly 2008ish. There have been more applicants than there are jobs and by a rather wide margin it seems.
Naturally, in any such market, employers having the big end of the stick, conditions are titlted towards the employer.
Nevertheless, the market in Korea is still quite hungry for English Teachers and the decline will not occur overnight.
Now, PS positions are vulnerable these days since the K-economy is not firing on all cylinders. As such ANY publically funded programs get looked at harder, more so those that were always meant to be temporary or gap filling measures (ex: EPIK). IF such programs are cut, the demand for teachers will likely not vanish into thin air. Hakwons will likely pick up the slack (wether thats godo or bad for foreign teachers is debatable) and thus the job market will shift even more towards Hakwons.....for now anyway.
Down the road you get DEMOGRAPHIC IMPACT. Whats that? The result of an abysmal birth rate in Korea means schools will have fewer students and hence fewer teachers will be required. In such a shrinking market, foreign labor gets the shaft and this is completely normal as every nation on the planet will favour its citizens over foreign labor when it comes to jobs. This is become demographic impact takes TIME WT, it does not happen overnight.
Now if for some reason Hakwons do not pick up the slack and PS programs are drastically cut, then yes WT, FTs will be in tough, especially those with lower qualifications and lack of experience as entry-level positions will become rarer and rarer.
Bascially the current market has more applicants than jobs and on top of that is maturing. So, play your cards accordingly or be left on the side of the road.
As an ESL-EFL teacher, other destinations are certainly emerging (ex: China). |
The market for ESL teachers in Korea isn't hungry... also the decline won't occur overnight but it's been happening for the last 5-10 years... possibly more. If the market was truly as you describe there would be an increase in ESL positions, there hasn't been. There's been cuts and loss of benefits and no pay rises. That's the sign of a bad market to be in I can't really argue anything positive in recent years.
Also you say entry level positions will become rarer but all positions will do so. People will get re-qualified and there is already a huge abundance of poor teachers across the world with good qualifications, they'll fancy their chances and have already been doing so. If you look at the amount of qualified foreign teachers or professors coming across you'll see it's ever increasing. I'm highly inclined to believe that certified English teacher salaries/university positions will be the next to say no gross pay rise and I know for a fact they're getting more competitive.
You'll spend more time and money getting qualified than you'll see in return for your investment. It's still an easy job though with an easy to find skillset which is why people do it but the trade off is it's not well paid, competitive and not a really secure job. Lastly, wages have satured in China. It's not an emerging market, it's already at the focal point of ESL. It's easy to find mediocre jobs it's not so easy to find good jobs even if you are a qualified English teacher - check it out.
| World Traveler wrote: |
I saw this on the China forum: (Sounds a lot like Korea.)
| Quote: |
| Without hyperbole, it is true that the cost of living has gone up the last few years and salaries have stagnated. As well, universities often asked for 12-14 hours five years ago, and are now asking 18-20 for the same crappy salary. |
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It's on the brink, about 10 years or so behind Korea. It's going to be hitting the decline soon, fairly obvious.
| tophatcat wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
(And you have no proof the independent contractor scam is legal. You just claim it is.)
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I have proven repeatedly that it is legal to be an IC on an E2.
No one, inlcuding you, has ever shown any evidence, let alone proof, to the contrary. |
uuuuuuu, a Judge and The Court did.
By the way, ontheway must have taken on a new name here. He never posts under his old name.
LMAO
hmm, who could he be? |
Even without looking at the legal case against it, it was obvious the outcome. Without considering the fact that hagwons were using it as a means to pay little tax and avoid dishing out benefits to their employees which is BS. The idea of an IC undermines the whole aspect of a "work visa".
An IC is essentially being self-employed/a one man business. Of course it should be completely illegal on an E-2 teaching visa, it has potential to interfere with Local companies and screw the public out of tax funds. If people were doing business in my country on a work visa, taking prospective clients from locals... I'd be pissed. ontheway has no common sense. |
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wonkavite62
Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Location: Jeollanamdo, South Korea.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:24 am Post subject: Phase Out Park Geun-hye |
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Well, I am not sure of the exact schedule, but this fits in well with Park Geun-hye's mindset. She's a very cold, imperious woman, and she isn't very internationally-minded. If she wants to phase out western teachers, a lot of it has to do with the money. I was going to blame her party-the Saenuri Party-for the cuts. As conservatives they don't like the idea of public spending for ideological reasons, especially on people from outside Korea! But it's more complex, because President Lee, who ruled from December 2007 to December 2012 expanded the foreign teacher program and he was Saenuri as well!
It's Park Geun-hye. She wants to replace us by Koreans, because she thinks that will be cheaper and still do the job. But they will teach in a very Korean way. For example, my coteacher wants me to do listening exercises straight from the textbook. I also get to do other stuff though, but if she were on her own, she would be teaching for the test which is the high school entrance exam, period. We know what would happen.
As regards the future, it's anyone's guess. The Dictator's Daughter must retire in December 2017. I am praying for a president who is at least a little bit keener on western teachers in public schools. Anything could happen in politics, as the British Brexit Referendum has just shown.  |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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Most Koreans who are actually good at English don't teach it. To tell the truth there just aren't that many Koreans who are good at English.
Even the most of the Korean professors in the English departments aren't good at English.
I think the current president is okay that many of them are not good at English. because her objective is to create more jobs for Koreans by replacing foreigners with Korean nationals . |
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ArabicTeacher
Joined: 20 Jan 2016
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: Phase Out Park Geun-hye |
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| wonkavite62 wrote: |
| I am praying for a president who is at least a little bit keener on western teachers in public schools. |
Don't count on it. We know how the politics in this country works. |
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