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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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 Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Two-spirit seems to go a step beyond mere gender identity. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| I actually like they/them as gender neutral singular pronouns. |
"It" or "shim" aren't good enough? Using obviously plural pronouns to refer to a single individual in such a manner is suggestive of something a fair bit worse than mere gender confusion. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| "It" seems demeaning. I've never heard of "shim," but if it were to catch on I would have no real complaints. I do not think "they" having both singular and plural meanings is anymore confusing than "you" admitting to both singular and plural usage (as a Northerner, I obviously do not utilize, "y'all"), nor any more confusing than the German "sie" being third person singular female, third person plural, and second person honorific. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| "It" seems demeaning. |
I wouldn't have figured you to trot out a line like this. "It" genuinely is gender neutral, which is why it has historically been used to refer to things without a gender. True, those things have always been, well, things, but until now men have gotten along well enough with 'he' and women with 'she' ...and of course the same for those masquerading as men or women.
| Quote: |
| I do not think "they" having both singular and plural meanings is anymore confusing than "you" admitting to both singular and plural usage (as a Northerner, I obviously do not utilize, "y'all") |
As a Southerner, the singular/plural divide for 'you' has always been terribly confusing, which is why I rather enjoy recruiting non-Southerners to the use of the grammatically superior "y'all."
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| nor any more confusing than the German "sie" being third person singular female, third person plural, and second person honorific. |
I took German in high school and college (which means I remember very little of it), but, obviously not being a native speaker of the language, I don't know if they rely on the gender specificity of their pronouns to the degree that we do... and we obviously do a tremendous amount for an individual to be offended by the use of a gendered pronoun that reflects his sex but not her mental disposition. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| "It" seems demeaning. |
I wouldn't have figured you to trot out a line like this. "It" genuinely is gender neutral, which is why it has historically been used to refer to things without a gender. True, those things have always been, well, things, but until now men have gotten along well enough with 'he' and women with 'she' ...and of course the same for those masquerading as men or women. |
Keep in mind I am not really thinking of gender-identity confused people here so much as situations where a person's gender is genuinely unknown. "One more person will be coming, and it will bring the food," compared to, "One more person is coming, and they will bring the food," wherein the person's gender is an actual mystery. I would be reticent to say the former, but not the latter. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, but we were discussing individuals with actual, known sexes... genders... apparent sexes... whatever. But even in your example, we have the linguistic traditions of 'he' and 'man,' even if the eternally offended have raised a campaign of objection to their use.
Or we could simply demand greater awareness of our sentence constructions: "One more person is coming and will be bringing the food." |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:03 am Post subject: |
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Science moves ever closer to finding the genes that drive intelligence...
Researchers have found that teenagers who had a highly functioning NPTN gene performed better in intelligence tests.
It is thought the NPTN gene indirectly affects how the brain cells communicate and may control the formation of the cerebral cortex, the outermost layer of the human brain, also known as ‘grey matter.’
Teens with an underperforming NPTN gene did less well in intelligence tests
They found that, on average, teenagers carrying a particular gene variant had a thinner cortex in the left cerebral hemisphere, particularly in the frontal and temporal lobes, and performed less well on tests for intellectual ability.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/10631319/Is-intelligence-written-in-the-genes.html |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:21 am Post subject: |
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Teenage boy tortured in a shed for calling another student gay.
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Sources say that the attackers were upset because their victim called another student "gay" on Facebook.
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He was beaten with a crow bar and forced to eat cat feces. One of the teens used a box cutter to carve a swastika into his forehead. He was also shot with the BB gun in his hand and chest.
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"What's really shocking about the whole thing is just how ignorant the teens were of the consequences of what they were doing," said one source. "They just didn't understand that they were breaking the law.
"None of them expressed any remorse; really just shock at how much trouble they were in. They didn't understand that it would be that big a deal." |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| "So, is they late for work again?" |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| They is crying in the bathroom again. |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:50 am Post subject: |
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IT gets even more crazy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otherkin
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| Otherkin are a community of people who see themselves as partially or entirely non-human. They believe that they are, in spirit if not in body,[2] not human. This is explained by some members of the otherkin community as possible through reincarnation, having a nonhuman soul, ancestry, or symbolic metaphor.[1] According to Joseph Laycock, "scholarship has framed this claim as religious because it is frequently supported by a framework of metaphysical beliefs."[3] Not all otherkin necessarily share these beliefs; some may simply prefer to identify as non-human. |
Logically, the next step is transethnic or transrace.
Too crazy even for America? No, actually.
The Pew Hispanic Forum:
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2009/05/28/whos-hispanic/
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Q. I immigrated to Phoenix from Mexico. Am I Hispanic?
A. You are if you say so.
Q. My parents moved to New York from Puerto Rico. Am I Hispanic?
A. You are if you say so.
Q. My grandparents were born in Spain but I grew up in California. Am I Hispanic?
A. You are if you say so.
Q. I was born in Maryland and married an immigrant from El Salvador. Am I Hispanic?
A. You are if you say so.
Q. My mom is from Chile and my dad is from Iowa. I was born in Des Moines. Am I Hispanic?
A. You are if you say so.
Q. I was born in Argentina but grew up in Texas. I don’t consider myself Hispanic. Does the Census count me as an Hispanic?
A. Not if you say you aren’.t |
I am a white white white (rah rah!) man but I am married to a white white white woman who is an American by way of South America.
According to Pew, I can claim I am Hispanic. In fact, my white white white kids have Hispanic checked on their birth certificates. They're going to get AA scholarships for college! America! You're crazy! My white upper middle class white kids from a nuclear white family are going to get AA preferences. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Hispanic is rather difficult. There are black hispanics and white hispanics and hispanics in between.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic
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Hispanic (Spanish: hispano, hispánico; Portuguese: hispânico, hispano, Galician: hispánico, Basque: hispaniar, Catalan: hispà, hispànic)[1][2] is an ethnonym that denotes a relationship to Spain or, in some definitions, to ancient Hispania, which comprised the Iberian Peninsula including the modern states of Andorra, Portugal, and Spain and the Crown Colony or British Overseas Territories of Gibraltar.[3][4][5] Today, organizations in the United States use the term as a broad catchall to refer to persons with a historical and cultural relationship either with Spain and Portugal or only with Spain, regardless of race.[6][7] However, the U.S. Census Bureau definition states that Hispanics or Latinos can be of any race, any ancestry, any ethnicity.[8]
Due to the technical distinctions involved in defining "race" vs. "ethnicity," there is confusion among the general population about the designation of Hispanic identity. Currently, the United States Census Bureau defines five race categories:[9]
White
Black or African American
Native American or Alaska Native
Asian
Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander
According to census reports, of the above races the largest number of Hispanic or Latinos are of the White Race, the second largest number come from the Native American/American Indian race who were the indigenous people of the Americas. Although Pacific Islanders can theoretically be Hispanic or Latinos, there is no indication that any Hispanic/Latinos are Pacific Islanders. Because Hispanic roots are considered aligned with a European ancestry (Spain/Portugal), Hispanic/Latino ancestry is defined solely as an ethnic designation (similar to being Norse or Germanic). Therefore, a person of Hispanic descent is typically defined using both race and ethnicity as an identifier—i.e., Black-Hispanic, White-Hispanic, Asian-Hispanic, Amerindian-Hispanic or "other race" Hispanic.
The term "Hispanic" broadly refers to the culture, peoples, or nations with a historical link to Spain. |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:19 am Post subject: |
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It is a deliberately vague category.
A white blue eyed Germanic male who speaks no Spanish but has a single grandparent in US by way of Argentina shares an ethnicity with full-blood Aztec from Mexico who doesn't speak Spanish.
It is fun to think of the possibilities.
Many Germans went to Cordoba after WW2. If their kids moved to USA they'd get ethnic preferences. Had they moved to Curitiba (which many did) and then to USA they'd not get ethnic preferences. |
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