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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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 Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| So Jay Leno will replace him? Hmmm |
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andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:06 am Post subject: |
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Let S.E. Cupp replace him.  |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Don't know the background but it looked like from the interview he was just talking about banning the type of gun you can use to spray bullets around a school/office/cinema. Not self-defences type handguns. |
Scorpion mentioned specifically guns that "kill thousands each year." Only handguns are responsible for that many yearly deaths.
As for the video, it's been a while since I've watched it, but I recall that discussion beginning with assault rifles - correct me if I'm wrong. Semi-automatic assault rifles do not "spray bullets" unless they are modified. Fully automatic weapons are highly regulated and typically very difficult to obtain legally. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
edwardcatflap wrote:
Don't know the background but it looked like from the interview he was just talking about banning the type of gun you can use to spray bullets around a school/office/cinema. Not self-defences type handguns.
Scorpion mentioned specifically guns that "kill thousands each year." Only handguns are responsible for that many yearly deaths.
As for the video, it's been a while since I've watched it, but I recall that discussion beginning with assault rifles - correct me if I'm wrong. Semi-automatic assault rifles do not "spray bullets" unless they are modified. Fully automatic weapons are highly regulated and typically very difficult to obtain legally.
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I'm from the UK so I don't really know anything about guns but I think it's a bit presumptuous for a Brit to go over there and start lecturing people on their freedoms. Perhaps you should send a Yank over to our place to lecture our judges when they hand out Mickey Mouse sentences like this one.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2567496/Pictured-Shocking-moment-doting-son-killed-single-punch-head-row-cycling-pavement-killer-jailed-just-four-half-years.html |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
edwardcatflap wrote:
Don't know the background but it looked like from the interview he was just talking about banning the type of gun you can use to spray bullets around a school/office/cinema. Not self-defences type handguns.
Scorpion mentioned specifically guns that "kill thousands each year." Only handguns are responsible for that many yearly deaths.
As for the video, it's been a while since I've watched it, but I recall that discussion beginning with assault rifles - correct me if I'm wrong. Semi-automatic assault rifles do not "spray bullets" unless they are modified. Fully automatic weapons are highly regulated and typically very difficult to obtain legally.
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I'm from the UK so I don't really know anything about guns but I think it's a bit presumptuous for a Brit to go over there and start lecturing people on their freedoms. Perhaps you should send a Yank over to our place to lecture our judges when they hand out Mickey Mouse sentences like this one.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2567496/Pictured-Shocking-moment-doting-son-killed-single-punch-head-row-cycling-pavement-killer-jailed-just-four-half-years.html |
UK has become an incredibly violent place.
I put it down to a lack of effective police presence, among other factors. Cameras can only do so much.
Maybe if everyone was packing their own gun, random violence like the above would be less common. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:37 am Post subject: |
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[quote]
UK has become an incredibly violent place.
I put it down to a lack of effective police presence, among other factors. Cameras can only do so much.
[quote]
I put it down to binge drinking and criminals knowing they won't really get punished if they're caught.
[quote]
Maybe if everyone was packing their own gun, random violence like the above would be less common.
[quote]
Is that a joke? If everyone was packing their own gun there'd just be more of
this kind of incident, like in the US
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/13/justice/florida-movie-theater-shooting/index.html |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| Maybe if everyone was packing their own gun, random violence like the above would be less common. |
I agree with edwardcatflap on this. Guns aren't magical. They don't fire bullets on their own, and they don't project forcefields that ward off would-be attackers. What they instead do is offer someone with the proper training and ability a chance at defense where one might not otherwise exist. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| Maybe if everyone was packing their own gun, random violence like the above would be less common. |
I agree with edwardcatflap on this. Guns aren't magical. They don't fire bullets on their own, and they don't project forcefields that ward off would-be attackers. What they instead do is offer someone with the proper training and ability a chance at defense where one might not otherwise exist. |
The huge demand for guns creates a huge supply, which is easily diverted from lawful owners. That's why the Mexican gangs go to the US to buy their guns. Decrease demand, supply will decrease, and it won't be so easy for anyone to get a gun. Pretty much every stat that we have makes your argument, taken at an aggregate level, look stupid. Also, this might not be the case you should go with, because if homeboy thought he could box DMX, surely he didn't need a gun for a highschool kid, said in not complete seriousness. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| Maybe if everyone was packing their own gun, random violence like the above would be less common. |
I agree with edwardcatflap on this. Guns aren't magical. They don't fire bullets on their own, and they don't project forcefields that ward off would-be attackers. What they instead do is offer someone with the proper training and ability a chance at defense where one might not otherwise exist. |
Pretty much every stat that we have makes your argument, taken at an aggregate level, look stupid. |
I understand not having time enough to devote to an argument. Between school, volunteer research, a job, a kid, and a hormonal wife, I rarely have the time myself, which is why I've turned to simply watching from the sidelines here most of the time. You...  At any rate, I've added the quote that you apparently couldn't be bothered to look for.
I've said this explicitly before and indirectly referenced it again here with my last post: nationwide guns bans will likely result in a reduction in nationwide violent crime. So, yes, geldedgoat the statistic would probably be safer. However, geldedgoat the individual who has taken the time to become acquainted with firearms and carries would not be safer.
| Quote: |
| Also, this might not be the case you should go with, because if homeboy thought he could box DMX, surely he didn't need a gun for a highschool kid, said in not complete seriousness. |
Yes, because getting jumped by someone and having your head smashed into pavement is oh so similar to preparing for a boxing match in a controlled environment, with a referee nearby to respond to your wails of "Help! Help!" |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| Maybe if everyone was packing their own gun, random violence like the above would be less common. |
I agree with edwardcatflap on this. Guns aren't magical. They don't fire bullets on their own, and they don't project forcefields that ward off would-be attackers. What they instead do is offer someone with the proper training and ability a chance at defense where one might not otherwise exist. |
Pretty much every stat that we have makes your argument, taken at an aggregate level, look stupid. |
I understand not having time enough to devote to an argument. Between school, volunteer research, a job, a kid, and a hormonal wife, I rarely have the time myself, which is why I've turned to simply watching from the sidelines here most of the time. You... At any rate, I've added the quote that you apparently couldn't be bothered to look for.
I've said this explicitly before and indirectly referenced it again here with my last post: nationwide guns bans will likely result in a reduction in nationwide violent crime. So, yes, geldedgoat the statistic would probably be safer. However, geldedgoat the individual who has taken the time to become acquainted with firearms and carries would not be safer.
| Quote: |
| Also, this might not be the case you should go with, because if homeboy thought he could box DMX, surely he didn't need a gun for a highschool kid, said in not complete seriousness. |
Yes, because getting jumped by someone and having your head smashed into pavement is oh so similar to preparing for a boxing match in a controlled environment, with a referee nearby to respond to your wails of "Help! Help!" |
Actually it is not certain that a trained person would be more safe in that scenario. Not sure of the statistics, but I would be very surprised if the rates of beating deaths are higher than gun deaths.
You use an asinine example, you get an asinine reply. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| I actually think Goat's position is pretty reasonable. "So, yes, geldedgoat the statistic would probably be safer. However, geldedgoat the individual who has taken the time to become acquainted with firearms and carries would not be safer," is a balanced and cautious statement. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Actually it is not certain that a trained person would be more safe in that scenario. |
In what scenario? The UK incident? The guy was sucker punched into a coma, so no, of course firearms training would have done little there. Chaparrastique's use of that as a platform to launch into his statement was unwise.
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| You use an asinine example, you get an asinine reply. |
Another lazy response? Feel free to try again, but I've a feeling I'm done with you.
Exchanges like this actually make me miss Ya-ta Boy. At least he was entertaining in his nonsense. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| I actually think Goat's position is pretty reasonable. "So, yes, geldedgoat the statistic would probably be safer. However, geldedgoat the individual who has taken the time to become acquainted with firearms and carries would not be safer," is a balanced and cautious statement. |
It is, but I'm not convinced it is correct. It's hard to prove a counter factual, but from the information I've seen owning guns actually make you less safe. There are individual cases where it is definitely true, but well trained gun owner is just a different set of statistics, so I'm not convinced. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Actually it is not certain that a trained person would be more safe in that scenario. |
In what scenario? The UK incident? The guy was sucker punched into a coma, so no, of course firearms training would have done little there. Chaparrastique's use of that as a platform to launch into his statement was unwise.
| Quote: |
| You use an asinine example, you get an asinine reply. |
Another lazy response? Feel free to try again, but I've a feeling I'm done with you.
Exchanges like this actually make me miss Ya-ta Boy. At least he was entertaining in his nonsense. |
No, in the scenario where demand for guns was lowered to the extent that supply dried up. I'm saying that it's possible that even a trained person would be safer without a gun if almost no one had guns.
Feel free to be done with me. I don't want to discuss that particular case so I didn't go into detail. Seeing you bring it up made me think of the DMX thing, but I think the case has been discussed enough here already. |
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I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:37 am Post subject: |
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I see assholes doing things to the Garda and British police that would get them shot in the U.S. - and probably even Canada.
There are a lot of bad, bad people in the U.K. - mutants, as my British colleague refers to them - that love violence.
I'm just amazed that the police don't carry pistols. Having a chunk on their tool belt would deter shit rats from attacking them. |
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