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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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 Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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This man is an athlete. Big, strong, fast, and can do what he did in this video, on the fly without it being pre-choreographed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LeiF9V-7pE
You don't see guys like that playing ice hockey or driving NASCARs. |
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Newbie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| EZE wrote: |
Canadians in this thread sound like white NASCAR fans where I'm from talking about how whites are such better athletes than blacks because white guys win every NASCAR race and blacks never do. Ice hockey is just NASCAR of the North. Let's be honest about who is playing it: a privileged few, not great athletes. It's sort of like the British royal family member medaling in the equestrian.
Your point about running is actually my point too. Unlike hockey or equestrian or auto racing, running is something all humans do. It's not a privileged class that excludes many of the best athletes. A privileged person can win an Olympic gold medal in the 100 meter sprint, but they actually have to compete against everyone else. Usain Bolt has been the top sprinter and the Jamaican team as a whole has done quite well, but can you imagine Jamaicans winning in ice hockey, the equestrian, or the Talladega 500? Let's get real. 
NASCAR is the #1 most watched sport in America, moreso than ice hockey.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/nascar-on-fox-2013-highest-rated-most-watched-sport-in-season-13th-straight-season-060713
That doesn't mean many Americans race cars on a track. I would bet it's less than 1% of the population. You won a game in a sport that's even less popular than NASCAR with players about as athletic. So let's not get carried away...  |
Wow. How the heck do you equate driving a car with an actual sport? I don't know much about Nascar, but it's obvious you don't know a single thing about hockey.
And, I actually didn't realize you were a complete racist. I'll back out of this one now. Not worth the time. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| EZE wrote: |
Canadians in this thread sound like white NASCAR fans where I'm from talking about how whites are such better athletes than blacks because white guys win every NASCAR race and blacks never do. Ice hockey is just NASCAR of the North. Let's be honest about who is playing it: a privileged few, not great athletes. It's sort of like the British royal family member medaling in the equestrian.
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You know when it comes to privilege, nothing screams it more than Red Army soldiers like Igor Larianov and Slava Fetisov. After all, the Russian Army is the height of privilege and wealth, certainly not a center of grueling, hard labor.
Hockey is not just a Canadian and American sport. A pair of skates cost as much as some nice kicks that people playing basketball on a public court pay. A stick is as much as a baseball bat. Then you find a pond. Poor people can afford to play hockey. |
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Hokie21
Joined: 01 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| EZE wrote: |
Canadians in this thread sound like white NASCAR fans where I'm from talking about how whites are such better athletes than blacks because white guys win every NASCAR race and blacks never do. Ice hockey is just NASCAR of the North. Let's be honest about who is playing it: a privileged few, not great athletes. It's sort of like the British royal family member medaling in the equestrian.
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You know when it comes to privilege, nothing screams it more than Red Army soldiers like Igor Larianov and Slava Fetisov. After all, the Russian Army is the height of privilege and wealth, certainly not a center of grueling, hard labor.
Hockey is not just a Canadian and American sport. A pair of skates cost as much as some nice kicks that people playing basketball on a public court pay. A stick is as much as a baseball bat. Then you find a pond. Poor people can afford to play hockey. |
I disagree with this post. But as an old Red Wing fan myself I figured you'd be interested in seeing this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyWrxPA8jqY
Last edited by Hokie21 on Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Newbie wrote: |
| And most of these guys won Olympic medals in sprinting. That's running. Yes, running. Something 99.9% of 2 year olds can do. Do you really consider people who can run fast to be the best athletes out there? LOL! |
You know, I actually think the simpler competitions like running, lifting, and so forth are a better display of broad excellence than the events like figure skating (or hockey). Being the best at something like running which, as you said, more or less all humans do, is more impressive than being the best at something like hockey, curling, or figure skating, which almost no humans do. This is actually why I agree with your point about triathletes: they have to show excellence in three different fields, all of which are commonly engaged in by humans. If you wanted to hold someone up as "the best athlete" without further qualification, you could do worse than looking to a triathlon winner. |
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Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| EZE wrote: |
| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| So yes, per capita Canada obviously has more hockey players. But total players are very close. Thus, the talent pool is similar. |
The difference is Canada's best athletes play ice hockey since it's the national sport. Canadian kids dream of playing in the NHL. In the USA, our best athletes dream of playing other sports.
Take the NFL, for example. A lot of American kids dream of playing in the NFL, so a lot of our top athletes do eventually play in the NFL. A lot of NFL players have won medals in the Olympics in sprints, the hurdles, the long jump, wrestling, the decathlon, and the shot put. I can't think of any American NHL players who have won Olympic medals in anything other than ice hockey. Why is that? The NFL attracts some elite athletic talent while the NHL scrapes the bottom of the barrel, in terms of athletic talent. |
To your first point, the US has 10x as many people as Canada. There's enough American athletes left over after the ones who want to go into the NFL, NBA and MLB to like hockey and still be very good athletes. Again, just because you're from a place that doesn't produce a lot of hockey fans doesn't mean there are none in your entire country.
Second, I don't get your second point. Because 26 guys who have played in the NFL in the last century also competed in the Olympics, they are all better athletes? You mean the obese guys who play approximately 1 and a half minutes once a week for 13 weeks a year who's only job it is is to stand there and try to block another guy while wearing more padding than a drag queen in the north pole? Please. Never mind hockey, rugby players are 10 times the athlete than anyone in the NFL.
But besides all that, what does competing in other sports have to do with anything? Has Usain Bolt competed in anything besides sprinting? Does that make him a bad athlete? Now we're holding the fact that these guys have chosen one sport and perfected it against them? The reason NFL guys can come from sprinting or whatever is because their role in football is so specialized. It actually proves the opposite of the point you were trying to make; the reason these guys can play in the NFL is because they don't have to be good all around athletes, they just have to be good at one particular thing. No, you're not going to find the world's fastest man on skates in the NHL, or the biggest guy, or the best MMA fighter, or the most agile or limber dude. But you've gotta be all those things to be there. |
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Hokie21
Joined: 01 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| EZE wrote: |
| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| So yes, per capita Canada obviously has more hockey players. But total players are very close. Thus, the talent pool is similar. |
The difference is Canada's best athletes play ice hockey since it's the national sport. Canadian kids dream of playing in the NHL. In the USA, our best athletes dream of playing other sports.
Take the NFL, for example. A lot of American kids dream of playing in the NFL, so a lot of our top athletes do eventually play in the NFL. A lot of NFL players have won medals in the Olympics in sprints, the hurdles, the long jump, wrestling, the decathlon, and the shot put. I can't think of any American NHL players who have won Olympic medals in anything other than ice hockey. Why is that? The NFL attracts some elite athletic talent while the NHL scrapes the bottom of the barrel, in terms of athletic talent. |
To your first point, the US has 10x as many people as Canada. There's enough American athletes left over after the ones who want to go into the NFL, NBA and MLB to like hockey and still be very good athletes. Again, just because you're from a place that doesn't produce a lot of hockey fans doesn't mean there are none in your entire country.
Second, I don't get your second point. Because 26 guys who have played in the NFL in the last century also competed in the Olympics, they are all better athletes? You mean the obese guys who play approximately 1 and a half minutes once a week for 13 weeks a year who's only job it is is to stand there and try to block another guy while wearing more padding than a drag queen in the north pole? Please. Never mind hockey, rugby players are 10 times the athlete than anyone in the NFL.
But besides all that, what does competing in other sports have to do with anything? Has Usain Bolt competed in anything besides sprinting? Does that make him a bad athlete? Now we're holding the fact that these guys have chosen one sport and perfected it against them? The reason NFL guys can come from sprinting or whatever is because their role in football is so specialized. It actually proves the opposite of the point you were trying to make; the reason these guys can play in the NFL is because they don't have to be good all around athletes, they just have to be good at one particular thing. No, you're not going to find the world's fastest man on skates in the NHL, or the biggest guy, or the best MMA fighter, or the most agile or limber dude. But you've gotta be all those things to be there. |
Saying all NFL players are fat offensive linemen is like saying all NHL players are goalies and that they just stand between two pipes and occasionally block a puck with more padding then a drag queen at the north pole.
Just because one person wants to make a silly comparison doesn't give you an excuse to do the same.
Also you'd be amazed by how quickly some of those 300 pounders can move. For example, Larry Allen weighed over 300 pounds, could run a 5 second 40 and bench 700 pounds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFcWMC9vkZg |
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Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Hokie21 wrote: |
| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| EZE wrote: |
| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| So yes, per capita Canada obviously has more hockey players. But total players are very close. Thus, the talent pool is similar. |
The difference is Canada's best athletes play ice hockey since it's the national sport. Canadian kids dream of playing in the NHL. In the USA, our best athletes dream of playing other sports.
Take the NFL, for example. A lot of American kids dream of playing in the NFL, so a lot of our top athletes do eventually play in the NFL. A lot of NFL players have won medals in the Olympics in sprints, the hurdles, the long jump, wrestling, the decathlon, and the shot put. I can't think of any American NHL players who have won Olympic medals in anything other than ice hockey. Why is that? The NFL attracts some elite athletic talent while the NHL scrapes the bottom of the barrel, in terms of athletic talent. |
To your first point, the US has 10x as many people as Canada. There's enough American athletes left over after the ones who want to go into the NFL, NBA and MLB to like hockey and still be very good athletes. Again, just because you're from a place that doesn't produce a lot of hockey fans doesn't mean there are none in your entire country.
Second, I don't get your second point. Because 26 guys who have played in the NFL in the last century also competed in the Olympics, they are all better athletes? You mean the obese guys who play approximately 1 and a half minutes once a week for 13 weeks a year who's only job it is is to stand there and try to block another guy while wearing more padding than a drag queen in the north pole? Please. Never mind hockey, rugby players are 10 times the athlete than anyone in the NFL.
But besides all that, what does competing in other sports have to do with anything? Has Usain Bolt competed in anything besides sprinting? Does that make him a bad athlete? Now we're holding the fact that these guys have chosen one sport and perfected it against them? The reason NFL guys can come from sprinting or whatever is because their role in football is so specialized. It actually proves the opposite of the point you were trying to make; the reason these guys can play in the NFL is because they don't have to be good all around athletes, they just have to be good at one particular thing. No, you're not going to find the world's fastest man on skates in the NHL, or the biggest guy, or the best MMA fighter, or the most agile or limber dude. But you've gotta be all those things to be there. |
Saying all NFL players are fat offensive linemen is like saying all NHL players are goalies and that they just stand between two pipes and occasionally block a puck with more padding then a drag queen at the north pole.
Just because one person wants to make a silly comparison doesn't give you an excuse to do the same.
Also you'd be amazed by how quickly some of those 300 pounders can move. For example, Larry Allen weighed over 300 pounds, could run a 5 second 40 and bench 700 pounds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFcWMC9vkZg |
My intention wasn't to say all NFL players are like that. It was to point out that saying all NFL players are the best athletes in the world is ridiculous. Yes, some of them are very good athletes. Some are not. |
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Hokie21
Joined: 01 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| I am also not saying NFL players are the greatest athletes in the world but if you make it to the NFL you are a great athlete, that is undeniable....unless you are a punter. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| Scorpion wrote: |
| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
| If hockey was as popular in the US as it is in Canada....the US would be winning gold every Olympic. Just the facts. |
Of the 30 NHL franchises 23 are situated in the US. I don't know how you can say hockey isn't popular there. |
You can turn that number around as well: with 1/9 the population Canada has a quarter of the teams in the league. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:57 am Post subject: |
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Every non-American I've known who says "fat" American Football players are not athletic (or that they're wimps for using pads) has changed their opinion the second they play actual football against those guys and have them chase them down and smash them into the turf. They realize that A) Those "fat" guys are in amazing shape and are fast as heck and B) That there is a difference between getting tackled in rugby and hit in football.
Also, the NFL is not specialized in terms of its athleticism. There is a reason that at the draft combine, which is going on now, that potential players are tested on speed, leaping ability, agility, and strength. Every player at every position except for punter and kicker needs those abilities to succeed.
Now, in defense of hockey, hockey has some amazing athletes as well. These are multimillion dollar athletes that train their entire lives. Simply because the NHL is predominantly white doesn't mean that they aren't superb athletes. Even derided NASCAR requires a level of physical conditioning and training. Most of us would get massively fatigued and vomit going at the speeds they go and would completely fail physically as a member of the pit crew.
Me personally, I favor a very liberal interpretation of sport and am much more apt to consider top level competitors as well conditioned athletes in most major sports.
Athleticism of Detroit's own Calvin Johnson.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7126233 |
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Newbie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
You know, I actually think the simpler competitions like running, lifting, and so forth are a better display of broad excellence than the events like figure skating (or hockey). Being the best at something like running which, as you said, more or less all humans do, is more impressive than being the best at something like hockey, curling, or figure skating, which almost no humans do. This is actually why I agree with your point about triathletes: they have to show excellence in three different fields, all of which are commonly engaged in by humans. If you wanted to hold someone up as "the best athlete" without further qualification, you could do worse than looking to a triathlon winner. |
Ok, so we partially agree. I see your point that being the best sprinter is a more impressive accomplishment, since everyone is their competition. However, I don't think that makes them the best athletes out there. What they do is very singularly focused. They just run. Similarly, a long jumper just jumps. A shot putter just throws his stone. Now, the few who combine all of that into decathlon: that's very impressive.
But sports like soccer, hockey, football, rugby, they all require multiple skills and aptitudes. Running(skating) /throwing / kicking / agility / dribbling(stick handling) /hand eye coordination, etc. To me that's a sign of being a more well rounded (better) athlete than a track star. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:03 am Post subject: Re: We win; you lose! |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
To all my American friends, drown your sorrows. We are a superpower of hockey. We won the gold in Vancouver, we won it in Sochi, and, if I'm still here, I'll see it happen again, in person, in Pyeongchang. Best of luck.... 
Mwa ha ha ha ha ha ha...... |
1)Thanks for embarrassing Canadians
2)NHL players are unlikely to be in Pyeongchang |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Hockey???? Oh yeah that game played in MidWest flyover states by the guys or who could not make the baseball, football track or basketball teams. And you say Canada won at the sport that is for the most non atheletic!!! UH!!! |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| Hockey???? Oh yeah that game played in MidWest flyover states by the guys or who could not make the baseball, football track or basketball teams. And you say Canada won at the sport that is for the most non atheletic!!! UH!!! |
Nothing says flyover state like Boston, MA or New York, NY. And you can include Philly and DC in the mix. It's not that's the biggest media market in the US or anything.
And as someone from one of those flyover states, which also probably has kicked your state's ass in some sport recently, a lot of kids in HS are two-sport stars with hockey and either football/baseball/track. Yes, believe it or not black people DO play hockey where I live.
And did you seriously just compare the athleticism of BASEBALL to hockey? I love baseball, but that's just ridiculous. Hockey does require a great amount of speed, agility, conditioning, and reflexes.
| Quote: |
| But sports like soccer, hockey, football, rugby, they all require multiple skills and aptitudes. Running(skating) /throwing / kicking / agility / dribbling(stick handling) /hand eye coordination, etc. To me that's a sign of being a more well rounded (better) athlete than a track star. |
Perhaps most importantly, they require you to do those things in direct competition against another top athlete. |
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