|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
|
 Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:42 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| radcon wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Rockhard wrote: |
@Radcon
Just give up. You're right he's blinded by his own illogical patriotism. He can't see the obvious contradictions in his thoughts.
1 - Despite the US's amazing wealth it has the worst poverty in the industrialized world.
2 - Despite the enormous US's military spending they can't even defeat piss-hole nations like Afghanistan and Vietnam.
3 - Despite being "lenient" towards criminals, it has the highest incarceration rate in the world and one of the highest capital punishment rates
4 - Despite all its guns, Americans are more likely to be killed than any other industrialized country
5 - Despite how amazing the US is, here in Korea we find 30,000+ Americans who thought living here was a better way of life. |
One, you're assuming all the Americans in Korea think it's a better way of life here. Two, there are 300,000+ Koreans living in just the greater Los Angeles area, so I think your argument is substantially outnumbered.
I've never heard anyone describe the American system of justice as lenient regarding most crimes. Maybe lenient with white collar criminals such as Wall St. bankers.
How are you defining worst poverty? How are you defining killed? You do know there's a greater chance of dying from a fall or other accidental injury than there is from death by gunshot. I'm all for gun control, BTW, but your arguments seem to be just as illogical, if not more so, than radcon's.
As for income and related taxes, U.S. rates are relatively low, although you won't ever get the WSJ editorial staff to agree with that.
As for private prisons mentioned in another post, they are, along with outsourcing prison services such a health care, a big problem, but you have to go full conspiracy theorist to believe they're responsible for the increase in those incarcerated. |
So you think my arguments are illogical. Here is a story where judges took bribes from private prisons to send kids to juvenile lock ups for minimal crimes.
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/23/pennsylvania.corrupt.judges/
Who has been the most ardent opponent of drug legalization? Prison guard unions, that's who. I wonder why? Why do these private prison companies have contracts with the states that have 90-100% no vacancy rates- if not the states must pay the companies to make up the differnece. You think that is not corrupt?
Elites took a look at the poor and said "How can we make money off of them." The answer they came up with is private prisons. "How can we make money off of middle class kids?" Make it super easy to borrow tons and tons of money for college, and then raise tuition fees to the moon. If you think these things are not by design, you are naive.
Show me in this thread where I am wrong. |
Take off the tin hat. Not everything is a conspiracy.
That was a proposal made by one private prison company to 48 states, all of which declined to take them up on it. You're wrong. You're welcome.
F-A-C-T-S, man. Have you got any? |
Really? You think that one proposal is all there is?Here are some facts for you. Read them before you run your mouth next time.
"Occupancy requirements, as it turns out, are common practice within the private prison industry. A new report by In the Public Interest, an anti-privatization group, reviewed 62 contracts for private prisons operating around the country at the local and state level. In the Public Interest found that 41 of those contracts included occupancy requirements mandating that local or state government keep those facilities between 80 and 100 percent full."
"States with the highest occupancy requirements include Arizona (three prison contracts with 100 percent occupancy guarantees), Oklahoma (three contracts with 98 percent occupancy guarantees), and Virginia (one contract with a 95 percent occupancy guarantee). At the same time, private prison companies have supported and helped write "three-strike" and "truth-in-sentencing" laws that drive up prison populations."
Here is what happens with your reduced crime rates World Traveler:
"You might be wondering: What happens when crime drops and prison populations dwindle in states that agreed to keep their private prisons 80 percent or 90 percent full? Consider Colorado. The state's crime rate has sunk by a third in the past decade, and since 2009, five state-run prisons have shuttered because they weren't needed. Many more prison beds remain empty in other state facilities. Yet the state chose not to fill those beds because Democratic Gov. John Hickenlooper and CCA cut a deal to instead send 3,330 prisoners to CCA's three Colorado prisons. Colorado taxpayers foot the bill for leaving those state-run prisons underused. In March, Christie Donner, executive director of the Colorado Criminal Justice."
"Profits are so good that now there is a new business: importing inmates with long sentences, meaning the worst criminals. When a federal judge ruled that overcrowding in Texas prisons was cruel and unusual punishment, the CCA signed contracts with sheriffs in poor counties to build and run new jails and share the profits. According to a December 1998 Atlantic Monthly magazine article, this program was backed by investors from Merrill-Lynch, Shearson-Lehman, American Express and Allstate."
And we haven't even started talking about the companies who use prison labor to manufacture items for sale. |
And you still haven't shown that the incarceration rate has increased due to private prisons. Three-strike laws were in effect before private prisons so your source, and in effect you, are being disingenuous.
As for occupancy requirements:
| Quote: |
| While no state accepted CCA’s offer, a number of private prison companies have been inserting similar occupancy guarantee provisions into prison privatization contracts and requiring states to maintain high occupancy rates within their privately owned prisons. Three privately run prisons in Arizona have contracts that require 100 percent inmate occupancy, so the state is obligated to keep its prisons filled to capacity. Otherwise it has to pay the private company for any unused beds. |
The states pay if the beds are used or unused. What's the difference? That's what the articles you cite fail to recognize.
Are these bad deals for the states? I'd say yes. But a bad business decision is different than people being locked up just to fill the prisons.
There are 100 private prisons with 62,000 prisoners. There are 2 million prisoners in the U.S. You do the math and then show how private prisons are responsible for the increase in incarceration rates.
Are private prisons a bad idea? The evidence supports that, but it doesn't support your tin hat conspiracy theory. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The article you cited states that 128,195 out of 1.6 million prisoners are being held in private prisons.
So the numbers show private prisons are a small minority and they do not show, as you claim, they are becoming the norm. That seems even more unlikely to happen when you consider that sheriffs are speaking out against them and how much they cost.
You keep making the same argument even though all the evidence is against you. Take off the tin hat and let a little reason in. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
White House touts tax cuts in its budget
http://washingtonexaminer.com/white-house-touts-tax-cuts-in-its-budget/article/2545008
America haters Rockhard, wishfullthinkng, and radcon, take off the tin foil hats.
“It was easy not to like the other foreigners. I wondered how I'd fallen in with such a band of freaks. There were so many odd, wandering types--a host of bent Australians, warped British, tainted Canadians, tormented runaway Americans. (I considered myself fairly well balanced among this cast, but then look what became of me.) I'd expected it to a certain degree, but I was still surprised. Most of them seemed like misfits. Only a few content. But all of us found teaching work with astounding ease. It didn't matter that, on the whole, we were ragged and suspect because the demand for English in Korea was so great that almost anyone was accepted.”
― Cullen Thomas, Brother One Cell: An American Coming of Age in South Korea's Prisons |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| atwood wrote: |
And you still haven't shown that the incarceration rate has increased due to private prisons. Three-strike laws were in effect before private prisons so your source, and in effect you, are being disingenuous.
The states pay if the beds are used or unused. What's the difference? That's what the articles you cite fail to recognize.
Are these bad deals for the states? I'd say yes. But a bad business decision is different than people being locked up just to fill the prisons.
There are 100 private prisons with 62,000 prisoners. There are 2 million prisoners in the U.S. You do the math and then show how private prisons are responsible for the increase in incarceration rates.
Are private prisons a bad idea? The evidence supports that, but it doesn't support your tin hat conspiracy theory. |
Except in Colorado where they have kept public prison beds empty and sent prisoners to the private prisons, so tax payers paid double.
It's not even a conspsiracy since it's out in the open. How did these private prisons even be allowed to exist? Elites said let's monetize poor people. The private prisons lobby government for tougher drug laws and tougher sentencing. There are 11 times more non violent drug offenders in prison than in years past. 11 times. You are right, correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation, but there is just too much conflict of interest and possible corruption in this case.
These prisons should not exist. As well as he mercenary armies the US hires and the current student loan debacle. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| World Traveler wrote: |
White House touts tax cuts in its budget
http://washingtonexaminer.com/white-house-touts-tax-cuts-in-its-budget/article/2545008
America haters Rockhard, wishfullthinkng, and radcon, take off the tin foil hats.
“It was easy not to like the other foreigners. I wondered how I'd fallen in with such a band of freaks. There were so many odd, wandering types--a host of bent Australians, warped British, tainted Canadians, tormented runaway Americans. (I considered myself fairly well balanced among this cast, but then look what became of me.) I'd expected it to a certain degree, but I was still surprised. Most of them seemed like misfits. Only a few content. But all of us found teaching work with astounding ease. It didn't matter that, on the whole, we were ragged and suspect because the demand for English in Korea was so great that almost anyone was accepted.”
― Cullen Thomas, Brother One Cell: An American Coming of Age in South Korea's Prisons |
Instead of cutting taxes, why don't they rebuild the crummy infrastructure.
Last edited by radcon on Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rockhard
Joined: 11 Dec 2013
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Are you three done throwing feces at each other? Clearly, you are not getting anywhere with your little debate. Where's that internet argument meme with a child and an ass yelling at each other.
http://rationalwiki.org/w/images/7/71/Internet_argument.jpg
Ah yeah, that's the stuff. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| radcon wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
And you still haven't shown that the incarceration rate has increased due to private prisons. Three-strike laws were in effect before private prisons so your source, and in effect you, are being disingenuous.
The states pay if the beds are used or unused. What's the difference? That's what the articles you cite fail to recognize.
Are these bad deals for the states? I'd say yes. But a bad business decision is different than people being locked up just to fill the prisons.
There are 100 private prisons with 62,000 prisoners. There are 2 million prisoners in the U.S. You do the math and then show how private prisons are responsible for the increase in incarceration rates.
Are private prisons a bad idea? The evidence supports that, but it doesn't support your tin hat conspiracy theory. |
Except in Colorado where they have kept public prison beds empty and sent prisoners to the private prisons, so tax payers paid double.
It's not even a conspsiracy since it's out in the open. How did these private prisons even be allowed to exist? Elites said let's monetize poor people. The private prisons lobby government for tougher drug laws and tougher sentencing. There are 11 times more non violent drug offenders in prison than in years past. 11 times. You are right, correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation, but there is just too much conflict of interest and possible corruption in this case.
These prisons should not exist. As well as he mercenary armies the US hires and the current student loan debacle. |
It does sound like there was corruption in Louisiana, but that's on the sheriffs there, not the elites you keep referring to.
Pretty much everyone agrees the war on drugs failed and that many of the persons that you refer to shouldn't be in jail. So you're beating a dead horse there.
As for correlation and causation, you don't even have correlation. You've got conspiracy theory--"the elites." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Rockhard wrote: |
Are you three done throwing feces at each other? Clearly, you are not getting anywhere with your little debate. Where's that internet argument meme with a child and an ass yelling at each other.
http://rationalwiki.org/w/images/7/71/Internet_argument.jpg
Ah yeah, that's the stuff. |
Feeling left out, are we? Anytime you've got something logical to add, step on up to the plate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| radcon wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
White House touts tax cuts in its budget
http://washingtonexaminer.com/white-house-touts-tax-cuts-in-its-budget/article/2545008
America haters Rockhard, wishfullthinkng, and radcon, take off the tin foil hats.
“It was easy not to like the other foreigners. I wondered how I'd fallen in with such a band of freaks. There were so many odd, wandering types--a host of bent Australians, warped British, tainted Canadians, tormented runaway Americans. (I considered myself fairly well balanced among this cast, but then look what became of me.) I'd expected it to a certain degree, but I was still surprised. Most of them seemed like misfits. Only a few content. But all of us found teaching work with astounding ease. It didn't matter that, on the whole, we were ragged and suspect because the demand for English in Korea was so great that almost anyone was accepted.”
― Cullen Thomas, Brother One Cell: An American Coming of Age in South Korea's Prisons |
Instead of cutting taxes, why don't they rebuild the crummy infrastructure. |
What did the momma tomato say to the baby tomato?
You better ketchup.
| Quote: |
The president’s proposal, which he first suggested in a speech last summer in Chattanooga, Tenn., would eliminate business and corporate tax loopholes to finance a
| Quote: |
| four-year, $302 billion transportation bill. |
White House officials declined to be specific, but said they would try to eliminate incentives for companies to ship jobs overseas. |
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/27/us/politics/Obama-seeks-money-for-aging-infrastructure.html?_r=0 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| atwood wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
And you still haven't shown that the incarceration rate has increased due to private prisons. Three-strike laws were in effect before private prisons so your source, and in effect you, are being disingenuous.
The states pay if the beds are used or unused. What's the difference? That's what the articles you cite fail to recognize.
Are these bad deals for the states? I'd say yes. But a bad business decision is different than people being locked up just to fill the prisons.
There are 100 private prisons with 62,000 prisoners. There are 2 million prisoners in the U.S. You do the math and then show how private prisons are responsible for the increase in incarceration rates.
Are private prisons a bad idea? The evidence supports that, but it doesn't support your tin hat conspiracy theory. |
Except in Colorado where they have kept public prison beds empty and sent prisoners to the private prisons, so tax payers paid double.
It's not even a conspsiracy since it's out in the open. How did these private prisons even be allowed to exist? Elites said let's monetize poor people. The private prisons lobby government for tougher drug laws and tougher sentencing. There are 11 times more non violent drug offenders in prison than in years past. 11 times. You are right, correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation, but there is just too much conflict of interest and possible corruption in this case.
These prisons should not exist. As well as he mercenary armies the US hires and the current student loan debacle. |
It does sound like there was corruption in Louisiana, but that's on the sheriffs there, not the elites you keep referring to.
Pretty much everyone agrees the war on drugs failed and that many of the persons that you refer to shouldn't be in jail. So you're beating a dead horse there.
As for correlation and causation, you don't even have correlation. You've got conspiracy theory--"the elites." |
Correlation: As private prisons came into existence the prison population dramatically raised. Correlation: as private prison corporations lobbied local governments for longer sentencing and congress to send illegal immigrants to lengthy prison terms, illegal immigratnts held in prisons increased almost 8 times, despite less immigrants actually crossing the border.
"A decade ago, more than 3,300 criminal immigrants were sent to private prisons under two 10-year contracts the Federal Bureau of Prisons signed with CCA worth $760 million. Now, the agency is paying the private companies $5.1 billion to hold more than 23,000 criminal immigrants through 13 contracts of varying lengths."
Wow a six fold increase in revenue in just 10 years. Great business. Forget the fact that illegals should just be deported and not spend years in jail. Almost half of these poor people are in private prisons. Actually private prison were almost bankrupt ten yaers ago, until they discovered this illegal immigrant cash cow.
But you are right. Rich powerful people don't do anything immoral, illegal, or unfair to stay rich and powerful. Profit centers like private prisons and merc army corporations just sprang up out of the blue without lobbying efforts by elites. Hell there are no elites in the US. All super wealthy people become rich and powerful solely because they are so much smarter and hard working than every one else and they play by the rules always.
Last edited by radcon on Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| World Traveler wrote: |
White House touts tax cuts in its budget
http://washingtonexaminer.com/white-house-touts-tax-cuts-in-its-budget/article/2545008
America haters Rockhard, wishfullthinkng, and radcon, take off the tin foil hats.
“It was easy not to like the other foreigners. I wondered how I'd fallen in with such a band of freaks. There were so many odd, wandering types--a host of bent Australians, warped British, tainted Canadians, tormented runaway Americans. (I considered myself fairly well balanced among this cast, but then look what became of me.) I'd expected it to a certain degree, but I was still surprised. Most of them seemed like misfits. Only a few content. But all of us found teaching work with astounding ease. It didn't matter that, on the whole, we were ragged and suspect because the demand for English in Korea was so great that almost anyone was accepted.”
― Cullen Thomas, Brother One Cell: An American Coming of Age in South Korea's Prisons |
sorry weird rambler, i'm not a part of your agenda. i rather enjoy america. what i don't like are blind fanboys like you who can't see the bad about their own country (let alone about everything in life). you only think i dislike america because i call you out on your blind blazes of glory for america when they are wrong.
the strange thing is even though you say some really stupid crap sometimes, you also say some smart things from time to time and i really believe you can't be as dumb as you lead on. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| atwood wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
White House touts tax cuts in its budget
http://washingtonexaminer.com/white-house-touts-tax-cuts-in-its-budget/article/2545008
America haters Rockhard, wishfullthinkng, and radcon, take off the tin foil hats.
“It was easy not to like the other foreigners. I wondered how I'd fallen in with such a band of freaks. There were so many odd, wandering types--a host of bent Australians, warped British, tainted Canadians, tormented runaway Americans. (I considered myself fairly well balanced among this cast, but then look what became of me.) I'd expected it to a certain degree, but I was still surprised. Most of them seemed like misfits. Only a few content. But all of us found teaching work with astounding ease. It didn't matter that, on the whole, we were ragged and suspect because the demand for English in Korea was so great that almost anyone was accepted.”
― Cullen Thomas, Brother One Cell: An American Coming of Age in South Korea's Prisons |
Instead of cutting taxes, why don't they rebuild the crummy infrastructure. |
What did the momma tomato say to the baby tomato?
You better ketchup.
| Quote: |
The president’s proposal, which he first suggested in a speech last summer in Chattanooga, Tenn., would eliminate business and corporate tax loopholes to finance a
| Quote: |
| four-year, $302 billion transportation bill. |
White House officials declined to be specific, but said they would try to eliminate incentives for companies to ship jobs overseas. |
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/27/us/politics/Obama-seeks-money-for-aging-infrastructure.html?_r=0 |
You think the infra just went bad yesterday? What has been happening the last two decades. In 2009 there was massive stimulus packages, not much went to infra. Missed opportunity. That money went to banks who just sat on the money and paid bonuses.
So now they are disincentivizing offshoring jobs? You're the one who better catch up. Those jobs are long gone. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
No I don't think it's becoming the norm and I think it's a small minority. That you're having to quibble over semantics shows that your assertions are incorrect. That's correlation.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
