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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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 Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
As for lobbyists, I personally lobbied my U.S. senators this very morning. Their doors, especially via e-mail, are always open, even to the average citizen.
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I had no idea you were a lobbyist. Can you use your lobbying ability to change a few things in the US? For openers I want: 1. All 50,000 US troops removed from Germany immediately. 2. The Federal Reserve audited and its owners revealed for all to see. 3. A livable minimum wage 4. The Patriot Act repealed 5. The NSA to stop saving every piece of communication in the whole world. And of course the 6. the banning of for profit prisons.
You can choose one or all of these things. Since US politicians "doors are always open" I suppose this should not be a problem for you. I await the results. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| radcon wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
As for lobbyists, I personally lobbied my U.S. senators this very morning. Their doors, especially via e-mail, are always open, even to the average citizen.
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I had no idea you were a lobbyist. Can you use your lobbying ability to change a few things in the US? For openers I want: 1. All 50,000 US troops removed from Germany immediately. 2. The Federal Reserve audited and its owners revealed for all to see. 3. A livable minimum wage 4. The Patriot Act repealed 5. The NSA to stop saving every piece of communication in the whole world. And of course the 6. the banning of for profit prisons.
You can choose one or all of these things. Since US politicians "doors are always open" I suppose this should not be a problem for you. I await the results. |
No. 3 is already in the works.
As for the rest, you're on your own. Try rolling up your sleeves and working for what you believe in rather than whining about it.
Good luck!  |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| radcon wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
You've taken a wrong turn here.
People have built successful businesses and because of that--or maybe because you haven't--they're automatically doing something immoral. That's weak, dude, really weak.
BTW, are you saying illegal immigrants haven't broken the law? That they are upstanding law abiding citizens who are being wronged here? That when they are deported they never return?
Your argument is so full of holes you could sell it as Swiss cheese. Actually, since there's so little substance to your argument, make that Jarlsburg--less fat. |
In you own words you wrote "Are private prisons a bad idea? The evidence supports that. " Yet they still exist and they are growing and continuing to thrive. Why is that? Even though you think private prisons are bad you think it's fine these companies are able to lobby congress to the tune of tens of million of dollars, change sentencing laws, influencing immigration laws all for the sake of profit. Please explain yourself. Are you ok with the way corporations are able to lobby congress and get laws passed that are detrimental to the American people? You are what's wrong with America. Too stupid or lazy to see how the middle and working classes are getting screwed. |
t
What's happening with private prisons in Arizona? They aren't exactly thriving. With fewer persons incarcerated for drug offenses, how is that a rosy future for private prisons? And if immigration reform happens, things look even worse for them.
You still haven't shown any evidence that laws have been changed due to pressure from private prisons.
I'd say you're what's wrong with the U.S. and the world in general. You read half-baked blogs that reenforce what you already believe--that the rich are out to get you--rather than thinking for yourself. Then you say it's all a conspiracy and any good that you might do is lost because you've become just another wingnut spinning round and round. You're just noise, if that.
Play the victim and that's what you'll be. You're screwing yourself. |
I'm not screwed in any way shape or form. Show me where I called myself a victim. I don't feel victimized at all. Personally I'm quite pleased with my bank account at this stage of my life. I'm also quite pleased that I don't and will probably never pay US taxes again. However that doesn't mean I shouldn't care that my once great nation has been destroyed by corporate greed and corruption. It's Fox News watchers and "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" such as yourself that need to wake up. But I fear it is already too late.
Who knows what will happen with private prisons going forward. Pot legalization will hurt them. Immigration reform may hurt or greatly help them depending on the specifics. However there is no denying their rapid growth of the last two decades.
"The Corrections Corporation of America (CCA), the nation's largest owner of private prisons, has seen its revenue climb by more than 500 percent in the last two decades." Whatever happens to them, it won't be because of a lack of lobbying.
Arizona SB 1070 is the law that made it ok for police to stop any Mexican looking person and then lock up the illegals. CCA helped write the law. Thirty of the 36 co-sponsors received donations over the next six months, from prison lobbyists or prison companies — Corrections Corporation of America, Management and Training Corporation and The Geo Group.
So 30 out of 36 politicians sponsoring the bill received money from the prisons. Makes one think that the lobbying efforts were successful. |
Get your facts straight:
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| Impetus for SB 1070 is attributed to shifting demographics leading to a larger Hispanic population, increased drugs- and human smuggling-related violence in Mexico and Arizona, and a struggling state economy and economic anxiety during the late-2000s recession.[4][39] State residents were also frustrated by the lack of federal progress on immigration,[4] which they viewed as even more disappointing given that Napolitano was in the administration.[ |
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| The major sponsor of, and legislative force behind, the bill was State Senator Russell Pearce, who had long been one of Arizona's most vocal opponents of undocumented immigration[40] and who had successfully pushed through several prior pieces of tough legislation against those he termed "invaders on the American sovereignty".[41][42] Much of the drafting of the bill was done by Kris Kobach,[42] a professor at the University of Missouri–Kansas City School of Law[43] and a figure long associated with the Federation for American Immigration Reform who had written immigration-related bills in many other parts of the country.[44] Pearce and Kobach had worked together on past legislative efforts regarding immigration, and Pearce contacted Kobach when he was ready to pursue the idea of the state enforcing federal immigration laws.[42] A December 2009 meeting of the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) in Washington, D.C., resulted in that body drafting model legislation that embodied the ideas that Pearce presented.[45] |
And the law was challenged by the Department of Justice and in the Supreme Court. How could the elites who are controlling things ever have allowed that to happen?
Isn't it the elites who are exploiting illegal immigrant labor? Why would they want them in jail? You need to get your story straight.
"It's the lobbyists! It's the lobbyists!"
Cry me a river. |
Yes the law was challenged. Laws get challenged all the time especially when they have elements of race. But guess what. That law was partially upheld by the Supreme court and cops in Arizona still have the right to stop people for "Breathing while Brown." Why didn't you mention that the Supreme court upheld that part of the law?
Please explain how 30 of the 36 lawmakers supporting the bill received money from prison lobbies. Just coincidence?
Pearce may have been a true believer in fighting illegal Mexicans, he still took money. You think all the other politicians supporting the bill who took money were true believers? |
Politicians take money. It's called campaign contributions, and it is regulated. Did Pearce do anything illegal?
As for ALEC, if you're against organizations like that, speak out against them. They've been exposed and their influence is shrinking. But they're still counting on people like you, who sit idly by because it's all a conspiracy that no one can do anything about.
"Partially upheld"--if these elites are pulling all the strings why wouldn't they get exactly what they, according to you, are paying for? And more challenges are in the works, so we'll see how long it lasts. "Why didn't you mention that?" Good question.
And you keep avoiding the law's popularity among the average citizens of Arizona. It's not some elite conspiracy to make money off putting people in prison. Arizonans who have nothing to do with the prison industry are for the law.
I think that's called democracy. What do you think? |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Rockhard wrote: |
| Threequalseven wrote: |
| There are those who seek out the hard truths not reinforced by the commercial media, who try to understand the stories and challenges of the disenfranchised, and who allow their own views to be challenged in the pursuit of a broader, more accurate worldview; and then there are those like World Traveller and atwood. |
Agreed. The world isn't in the mess it's in because people have been TOO rational. It's because there's too many people like them. Hard-headed loud mouths that don't know a rock from a turtle's ass. |
Still nothing to add I see. Don't have any views worth being challenged?
There must be some anarcho-communist blog out there where you can "borrow" a view or two.
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
I think that's called democracy. What do you think? |
Congratulations on being the only person in the world who believes that American "democracy" isn't completely broken. You are like a unicorn,Bigfoot, and leprechaun rolled into one.
I think you miss the point. You say things like " yes that's bad, but it's being challenged in court, or it's a small %, or it's influence is weakening, or is that even illegal." Citizens shouldn't have to fight corporations and their elected officials to do the decent thing. Most people don't have the time, money, or influence to do what it takes to stop their government from screwing them. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| radcon wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
I think that's called democracy. What do you think? |
Congratulations on being the only person in the world who believes that American "democracy" isn't completely broken. You are like a unicorn,Bigfoot, and leprechaun rolled into one.
I think you miss the point. You say things like " yes that's bad, but it's being challenged in court, or it's a small %, or it's influence is weakening, or is that even illegal." Citizens shouldn't have to fight corporations and their elected officials to do the decent thing. Most people don't have the time, money, or influence to do what it takes to stop their government from screwing them. |
Millions and millions of Americans, average citizens, participate in making their democracy work.
You have to work for what you get in this life. Excuse-making ain;t gonna cut it. Time for you to grow up. |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
I think that's called democracy. What do you think? |
Congratulations on being the only person in the world who believes that American "democracy" isn't completely broken. You are like a unicorn,Bigfoot, and leprechaun rolled into one.
I think you miss the point. You say things like " yes that's bad, but it's being challenged in court, or it's a small %, or it's influence is weakening, or is that even illegal." Citizens shouldn't have to fight corporations and their elected officials to do the decent thing. Most people don't have the time, money, or influence to do what it takes to stop their government from screwing them. |
Millions and millions of Americans, average citizens, participate in making their democracy work.
You have to work for what you get in this life. Excuse-making ain;t gonna cut it. Time for you to grow up. |
I would like to think that you are just trolling, playing devil's advocate, or just having a wind up. But I fear that you are sincere. Time for you to better understand the world in which you live. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| radcon wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
I think that's called democracy. What do you think? |
Congratulations on being the only person in the world who believes that American "democracy" isn't completely broken. You are like a unicorn,Bigfoot, and leprechaun rolled into one.
I think you miss the point. You say things like " yes that's bad, but it's being challenged in court, or it's a small %, or it's influence is weakening, or is that even illegal." Citizens shouldn't have to fight corporations and their elected officials to do the decent thing. Most people don't have the time, money, or influence to do what it takes to stop their government from screwing them. |
Millions and millions of Americans, average citizens, participate in making their democracy work.
You have to work for what you get in this life. Excuse-making ain;t gonna cut it. Time for you to grow up. |
I would like to think that you are just trolling, playing devil's advocate, or just having a wind up. But I fear that you are sincere. Time for you to better understand the world in which you live. |
You're the one talking about what should and should not be, yet the world is what it is and what you make of it, nothing more and nothing less.
You've decided to stand on the sidelines and whine, "Woe is me." That's not understanding. |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:06 am Post subject: |
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In 2007, the Texas Youth Commission (TYC), a state agency that overseas juvenile corrections facilities, was sent to a West Texas juvenile prison run by GEO Group for the purpose of monitoring its quality standards.
The monitors sent by the TYC were subsequently fired for failing to report the sordid conditions they witnessed in the facility while they awarded the GEO Group with an overall compliance score of nearly 100% - it was later discovered that the TYC monitors were employed by the GEO Group. Independent auditors later visited the facility and discovered that inmates were forced to urinate or defecate in small containers due to a lack of toilets in some of the cells. The independent commission also noted in their list of reported findings that the facility racially segregated prisoners and denied inmates access to lawyers and medical treatment. The ACLU and Southern Poverty Law Center have also highlighted several cases where GEO Group facility administrators turned a blind eye to brutal cases of rape and torture within their facilities, in addition to cases of its staff engaging in violence against inmates.
http://rt.com/op-edge/moral-monstrosity-american-gulag-258/ |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Rockhard wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
In the U.S.
| Quote: |
| the top 1 percent of taxpayers, not the top 10 percent, have lately accounted for nearly 40 percent of income tax receipts, the top 5 percent for nearly 60 percent, and the top decile for roughly 70 percent. |
| Quote: |
| Why, according to the OECD, is the US system so progressive? Not because the rich face unusually high average tax rates, but because middle-income US households face unusually low tax rates |
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First off, income tax is not the only tax. Income tax is one of many taxes. Other taxes, like sales tax and payroll taxes don't have a big affect on the rich. And income tax only makes up 41% of revenue. So if you consider the 1% pay hardly any of the other taxes, they actually make up just 16% of revenue.
Secondly, the 1% have 41% of the wealth! So there contribution is not out of line with what they have.
Finally, the 1% benefit enourmously more from the state than the average citizen. If it wasn't for the US government, its army, its police, its prisons, its laws, people would never stand the current situation where a handful of people have everything. They would revolt. They would resist. They would take back. They would occupy abandoned factories and restart them. They would occupy abandoned houses and reclaim them. They would farm empty fields. They would form unions and block Chinese goods from entering. All the social programs combined are trinkets compared to what the government spends on maintaining control. And the middle class is by and large forced to pay for its own wardens. |
Didn't Chairman Mao try that in China? How many millions starved and how poor did the country become?
Anyhow, I don't like some of these rich d bags either. Wish the tax system had fair rates with minimal deductions. We'd all pay lower rates if most deductions were gone and corporate welfare done away with. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| radcon wrote: |
In 2007, the Texas Youth Commission (TYC), a state agency that overseas juvenile corrections facilities, was sent to a West Texas juvenile prison run by GEO Group for the purpose of monitoring its quality standards.
The monitors sent by the TYC were subsequently fired for failing to report the sordid conditions they witnessed in the facility while they awarded the GEO Group with an overall compliance score of nearly 100% - it was later discovered that the TYC monitors were employed by the GEO Group. Independent auditors later visited the facility and discovered that inmates were forced to urinate or defecate in small containers due to a lack of toilets in some of the cells. The independent commission also noted in their list of reported findings that the facility racially segregated prisoners and denied inmates access to lawyers and medical treatment. The ACLU and Southern Poverty Law Center have also highlighted several cases where GEO Group facility administrators turned a blind eye to brutal cases of rape and torture within their facilities, in addition to cases of its staff engaging in violence against inmates.
http://rt.com/op-edge/moral-monstrosity-american-gulag-258/ |
Where exactly does this dude you're quoting, who happens to be living in Kuala Lumpur, get his information from? The same place you do--half-baked Internet blogs?
And if prison conditions in the U.S. are a moral monstrosity, what are the prisons in North Korea?
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Radcon, you are talking about something that (supposedly) happened in 2007. That doesn't necessarily explain the situation in 2014. The link is called "American gulag". You expect me to take that seriously? (I don't have time to read all your links.) People in jail are rapists, murderers, etc. So you can expect violence there. Prisoners hurt other prisoners. Very sad and I don't like it, but you have to have perspective. Yes, guards should stop it. But it's not a conspiracy from elites. It's a matter of implementing a strategy to achieve the nearly impossible (by which I mean maintaining safety inside a prison).
Do you know what percentage of prisons in Britain are private? 13%. That's way more than the United States.
Does private ownership make a prison inherently evil? Maybe not.
http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2976970 |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
In 2007, the Texas Youth Commission (TYC), a state agency that overseas juvenile corrections facilities, was sent to a West Texas juvenile prison run by GEO Group for the purpose of monitoring its quality standards.
The monitors sent by the TYC were subsequently fired for failing to report the sordid conditions they witnessed in the facility while they awarded the GEO Group with an overall compliance score of nearly 100% - it was later discovered that the TYC monitors were employed by the GEO Group. Independent auditors later visited the facility and discovered that inmates were forced to urinate or defecate in small containers due to a lack of toilets in some of the cells. The independent commission also noted in their list of reported findings that the facility racially segregated prisoners and denied inmates access to lawyers and medical treatment. The ACLU and Southern Poverty Law Center have also highlighted several cases where GEO Group facility administrators turned a blind eye to brutal cases of rape and torture within their facilities, in addition to cases of its staff engaging in violence against inmates.
http://rt.com/op-edge/moral-monstrosity-american-gulag-258/ |
Where exactly does this dude you're quoting, who happens to be living in Kuala Lumpur, get his information from? The same place you do--half-baked Internet blogs?
And if prison conditions in the U.S. are a moral monstrosity, what are the prisons in North Korea?
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. |
That's your standard: "We aren't as bad as North Korea"? Way to aim high, fascist.
So the writer should be discredited because he lives in KL? You realize you live in a foreign country also. Anyway, the story is true and was widely and thoroughly reported in Texas newspapers at the time. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| radcon wrote: |
| For openers I want: 1. All 50,000 US troops removed from Germany immediately. |
The bulk of the U.S. military stationed in Europe is in Germany. Why? Because the U.S. built bases there following WW2. There were 250,000 troops then and the number has been gradually reduced since then. Soon only 30,000 troops will remain. The U.S. is closing bases in Germany now. Should all U.S. military be removed? No.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Main_countries_of_activity_of_Al-Qaeda.png |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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If you two can't see the inherent moral hazard of for profit prisons, you really need to improve your critical thinking skills. Even if the conditions within the prisons were fine (which they are not), there is still a huge conflict of interest.
Not a plan by the elites to monetize people?
Elites seek rent from the masses in any way they can. Ask yourself who allowed these prisons to exist? Who gives them contracts? |
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