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wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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 Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| mayorhaggar wrote: |
| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
what i am showing you however is that you sound like a typical backwards american "patriot" and that you are posting incorrect data and spouting off what you think you know about the topic at hand based on your bias against korea than actually posting relevant and un-biased information. |
You sound like a typical Korean patriot. And we're talking about pollution from China. Are you a Chinese patriot too?
Anyone trying to make South Korea (or China) look better by pointing fingers at pollution in the US is completely ridiculous. Yes, the US is the biggest polluter in the world, largely because we are very wealthy and can use a lot of energy. But the US is so big that the pollution is very spread out and doesn't cause very many serious health problems. Maybe 30 years ago in LA, or 120 years ago in Pittsburg, but not today. And we all know how bad pollution is in China. Most of China is really rural and poor so most of the pollution is in the more populated east. But there's still super polluted cities in the west like in Sichuan.
Meanwhile, South Korea is like the size of Alabama with a population of 50 million (California is "just" 35 million!), and the pollution is so high and so concentrated that even in my isolated country town the air is hazy most days. If a country the size of the US had the population density AND the widespread high-ish standard of living AND industrialization of South Korea we'd all be in trouble. But the US doesn't have any of those things.
I thought it was just foggy lately but unfortunately, because China and South Korea care more about industrialization and owning cars than public health, it's apparently some kind of brown murk.
And don't try to tell us anything about green initiatives by China and South Korea, it's just more PR by a bunch of back-slapping politicians to save their countries' "face." Then you get the keyboard commandos coming out to save even more face by crying about incomparable pollution in the US. Until South Korea is the size of the US and until China's rural population becomes more industrialized (which will happen one day) then you can't really compare them to the US at all. It's like comparing Chernobyl with all the pollution found in the Atlantic Ocean. |
a typical korean patriot? what for using my head? i'm not a crusader for all things korean, that's for sure. if you read my other posts i actually have many qualms with this place. in fact if your feeble mind took the time to read THIS thread you can see i'm not defending korea, just trying to make WT use his head a bit. you might however have noticed that i DO have qualms with americans who chest-pound and think that the only way is their way.
i dislike unclean air just as much as anyone else whether it be in korea or anywhere else.
so you can take your idiotic opinions and tell them to someone who cares because you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| mayorhaggar wrote: |
And don't try to tell us anything about green initiatives by China and South Korea, it's just more PR by a bunch of back-slapping politicians to save their countries' "face." |
Actually, the cheap skinflint nature of Koreans, and the high cost of imported petroleum meant that there was a basic economic incentive to at least make some kind of effort towards reducing energy consumption and managing costs.
Not really from the most noble of incentives, but it still had the effect of at least some attention being paid to the problem. |
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mayorhaggar
Joined: 01 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
a typical korean patriot? what for using my head? i'm not a crusader for all things korean, that's for sure. if you read my other posts i actually have many qualms with this place. in fact if your feeble mind took the time to read THIS thread you can see i'm not defending korea, just trying to make WT use his head a bit. you might however have noticed that i DO have qualms with americans who chest-pound and think that the only way is their way.
i dislike unclean air just as much as anyone else whether it be in korea or anywhere else.
so you can take your idiotic opinions and tell them to someone who cares because you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. |
"The US is factually bigger and not as densely populated as South Korea" is an idiotic opinion? Ok. |
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wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| mayorhaggar wrote: |
| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
a typical korean patriot? what for using my head? i'm not a crusader for all things korean, that's for sure. if you read my other posts i actually have many qualms with this place. in fact if your feeble mind took the time to read THIS thread you can see i'm not defending korea, just trying to make WT use his head a bit. you might however have noticed that i DO have qualms with americans who chest-pound and think that the only way is their way.
i dislike unclean air just as much as anyone else whether it be in korea or anywhere else.
so you can take your idiotic opinions and tell them to someone who cares because you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. |
"The US is factually bigger and not as densely populated as South Korea" is an idiotic opinion? Ok. |
is today bring your children to work day? did mayorhaggar's six year old son type this?
no champ, the us being bigger and not as densely populated as korea is called a fact. i really hope you're not an english teacher if you don't know the difference between a fact and your idiotic opinions.
your idiotic opinions are things like this:
"But the US is so big that the pollution is very spread out and doesn't cause very many serious health problems." 
"And don't try to tell us anything about green initiatives by China and South Korea, it's just more PR by a bunch of back-slapping politicians to save their countries' "face."" (because you know about this in depth and are working with the groups trying to make changes right? please.) |
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mayorhaggar
Joined: 01 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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What the hell are we even arguing about?
The US has 6 times the population of South Korea with something like 1000 times the amount of land. You just cannot compare pollution in the US with South Korea. It's apples and oranges. You can say that pollution in Seoul is frequently pretty bad, and worse than anything you'll see in any comparable urban area of the US. I lived in LA for a year before coming here and visibility was never as bad as anything I've seen in Seoul. Again though, the whole LA area is 10 million people and is waaaaay bigger than Seoul. If that whole area was condensed into Seoul's area it would probably be even more polluted. You just can't compare this stuff easily.
It would be better to compare pollution in China and the US (especially since a lot of SK's pollution comes from China) and I think we can say there's nowhere as bad as modern Beijing in the US, at least not since the early 20th century.
Also I'm sorry but I just cannot take seriously the "green initiatives" of a nation that hasn't quite figured out basic things like garbage collection or clean drinking water or indoor plumbing yet, and where ajummas burn garbage all day long. I like South Korea a lot but they still have a million miles to go on stuff like this. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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The US being bigger and less dense than Korea should really only have to do with computing pollution levels and selecting solutions. It's kind of hard to apply value judgments on one country or the other with those as factors.
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Also I'm sorry but I just cannot take seriously the "green initiatives" of a nation that hasn't quite figured out basic things like garbage collection or clean drinking water or indoor plumbing yet |
First, the drinking water is clean.
Next, as I said, the Korean government has done a fair bit- Solar panels installed on a number of street lights and office buildings where I live, wider use or LPG cars, public service announcements.
Now, is this all altruistic? I'd say a good part of it is left over from the 70s and saving energy and stockpiling gasoline for potential Nork attack, and those solar panels are probably government pork with a "green" label attached.
However it should be noted that not all of it is waste, as this indicates...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_opinion_by_country
You may not take their initiatives seriously, but it seems the South Korean people at least have listened, although they aren't doing the greatest job of putting belief into action. |
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mayorhaggar
Joined: 01 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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Main problem is how many people drive here, it's pretty surprising considering how gas is sort of expensive here, and cars are expensive compared to people's incomes. That means a lot of smog in a small country. But I'm not sure what the government can do, SK already has pretty decent public transit which is packed to the gills with riders, yet there's still a huge number of cars on the road. If everyone left their car at home and rode public transit to work it would be chaos.
The electricity conservation here is kind of silly, compared to the US rates here are lower. Natural gas is hideously expensive though. Seems like Koreans try to avoid turning on electric fans and aircon as much as possible in the summer, but they don't mind as much turning on the gas-powered ondol, at least at home. Of course at public schools they hold off on turning on the radiators until we all have frostbite and our bums are frozen to the toilet seats. It's not really conservation so much as Korean concepts of heat and cold, but it turns into a weird form of conservation. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
T
First, the drinking water is clean. |
You meaning the tap water?
Because if so, I'd disagree. I remember a few years back how it was revealed that the guy doing the testing was just "phoning in the numbers". As well, the consistency in the piping leaves a lot to be desired. Sure, the water may be clean when it leaves the plant, but after it passes through A, B, and C neighbourhoods, it often has to travel through piping that's been laid over various decades. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
T
First, the drinking water is clean. |
You meaning the tap water?
Because if so, I'd disagree. I remember a few years back how it was revealed that the guy doing the testing was just "phoning in the numbers". As well, the consistency in the piping leaves a lot to be desired. Sure, the water may be clean when it leaves the plant, but after it passes through A, B, and C neighbourhoods, it often has to travel through piping that's been laid over various decades. |
That I can't argue. I'm sure there are some homes out there where the water is suspect at best given their 1960s era home plumbing. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| You meaning the tap water? |
I never drink raw tap water anywhere. Just can't trust the people running it. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Do HEPA filters or anything else for the home work to cut some of this? I'm thinking of leaving my windows closed from now on if this be the case. |
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wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| Do HEPA filters or anything else for the home work to cut some of this? I'm thinking of leaving my windows closed from now on if this be the case. |
they can but if you are talking about ultra fine particles and nano particles then hepa begins to run into issues filtering out that small of particle. plus you must remember that the nature of a hepa system is cleaning air through forced air induction/expulsion which merely dilutes contaminated air with less contaminated air.
if you truly want the cleanest air the better system to use is an ionizer like a hydroxyl or ozonide ionizer or uv system that actively purifies air. plus you don't have to deal with expensive filter replacements or the noise association with a mechanical fan. |
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Jongno2bucheon
Joined: 11 Mar 2014
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Guys
anyone want to protest with me in front of the Chinese embassy next time the air is bad?
that coughing is legitimately the air from China. Guest what those factories at least make jobs for Chinese. so at least they benefit a little. but what about us? its just 100% bad.
I might do a one man show here. I want to be compensated for breathing this dirty air from china with no benefit |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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This is a map of Korea. But if you zoom on certain places, you can see other countries. Don't know how often things are updated. There appears to be parts of Tokyo that have worse readings than here. Seoul and the SouthWest seems the worst in Korea. But overall, Korea seems to resemble parts of California or around the Greater Vancouver area. The Northeast US seems a little worse.
http://aqicn.org/map/southkorea/
But, I'm sure this doesn't account for toxic dust blowing over from China or other things, perhaps.
This is another one I found.
http://www.airkorea.or.kr/airkorea/eng/realtime/main.jsp |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Jongno2bucheon wrote: |
Guys
anyone want to protest with me in front of the Chinese embassy next time the air is bad?
that coughing is legitimately the air from China. Guest what those factories at least make jobs for Chinese. so at least they benefit a little. but what about us? its just 100% bad.
I might do a one man show here. I want to be compensated for breathing this dirty air from china with no benefit |
I'll do it if I can turn it into a media circus, try and make a viral video of it, and shamelessly plug sponsors. "Down with Chinese smog. And Jim Norton will be at the Laugh Factory April 17th. Tickets on sale now." |
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