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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| I used to watch Bruce Lee movies when I was a kid, and I'm still a fan of Jackie Chan's movies. |
Well, outside of martial arts movies, traditionally there were few roles for Asians outside of martial arts/gangster/dork. However these days you can see plenty of other roles, so while that may have been true in the 80s, I think people have largely moved on. Same with Middle Easterners and being cast as terrorists, but Hollywood is starting to move on from that. Remember, as recently as 'Lost' you had to have Asian actors stand up to stereotypical and demeaning presentations in American TV.
I don't really buy the writer's argument with Frozen. I think it more comes down to the quality of the movie. Just because 'Princess and the Frog' didn't do so well, doesn't mean people don't want to watch black leads in kids movies around the globe- Hello, Space Jam anyone?
Still, at the same time, try giving your kid a black Barbie doll. Odds are they'll make what Dave Chappelle calls that "George Bush having to kiss a black baby" face.
I don't like the term 'white privilege'. It's one of those nonsense buzzwords like 'microaggression' or banning 'bossy'. However, I think a great example of the phenomenon of certain groups not having to worry about being pigeonholed or not happens in the case of accidents or incidents. This happens in ANY country. For example, in Korea, if a Korean person does something bad, it is because they are a bad individual. If a foreigner does something bad, they might be portrayed as representing all foreigners and their culture. Conversely, in our countries back home or on these boards, an accident or incident involving our respective cultures is just a tragic error, or the work of a sick individual. A building collapses back home? Tragic, a bad landlord. A building collapses in Korea? Must be because of their culture. A person with an English name beats his wife? He's a sick, sad loser. A person with an Arabic name beats his wife? Must be because of his culture.
Anyways, back to Frozen, the reason its so popular over say, Tangled, is because of the tunes and Josh Gadd as Olaf. No more, no less. It's not White Privilege, it's Idina Menzel. |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Well, outside of martial arts movies, traditionally there were few roles for Asians outside of martial arts/gangster/dork. |
That's true with any ethnic group, even whites. Jews in movies are usually portrayed as lawyers, nerds, Biblical characters or Holocaust victims. Germans are usually Nazis. Italians are usually in the mafia. Russians are usually gangsters, spies, or prostitutes and normally have a drinking problem. And so on.
While I agree some of the stereotypes are overdone, I really don't think portraying Scandanavian characters as white is over the top. I think Lim is being hypersensitive about that.
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Still, at the same time, try giving your kid a black Barbie doll. Odds are they'll make what Dave Chappelle calls that "George Bush having to kiss a black baby" face. |
Isaac Larian immigrated to the USA from Iran and moved up the socioeconomic ladder from restaurant dishwasher to billionaire CEO of a toy company. His biggest success was in marketing dolls of various racial backgrounds. For a while, his dolls were outselling Barbie. The Disney princess dolls are big sellers too, and they have Arab, black, Asian, Native American, and white dolls.
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Anyways, back to Frozen, the reason its so popular over say, Tangled, is because of the tunes and Josh Gadd as Olaf. No more, no less. It's not White Privilege, it's Idina Menzel. |
I think the "Let It Go" song is a big factor in its success. My students always sing it and I hear kids in shops singing it all of the time. It's non-stop. Plus, guys like Lim who have paid money for tickets to see the movie have contributed to its commercial success.
Last edited by EZE on Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:21 am Post subject: |
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Agreed. Frozen's success is LARGELY due to its songs. The story is meh, but the songs have dug their claws into nearly every female on this planet. lol
Honest Trailers: Frozen |
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metalhead
Joined: 18 May 2010
Location: Toilet
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| I remember when Fellowship Of The Rings came out and there was an article written by a black feminist I think claiming that it was racist because the main characters were all white. So yeah, any movie based on Europe/Nordic mythology is automatically racist, don't you know that it's a crime to be white? I'm still shocked that Peter Parker is white in the Spider-Man movies, that's just racist and wrong, he definitely deserves to be Middle-Eastern. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| metalhead wrote: |
| I remember when Fellowship Of The Rings came out and there was an article written by a black feminist I think claiming that it was racist because the main characters were all white. So yeah, any movie based on Europe/Nordic mythology is automatically racist, don't you know that it's a crime to be white? I'm still shocked that Peter Parker is white in the Spider-Man movies, that's just racist and wrong, he definitely deserves to be Middle-Eastern. |
While I think the record is pretty convincing that Tolkein rejected racism and the like, I think we should also acknowledge that having every protagonist be white, the Orcs being dark-skinned, and the evil nations of men having an Indian or Asian styling to them, might be perceived poorly by people of non-white background.
Imagine if instead, all the dwarves, elves, hobbits, and good races of men were black in appearance and all the bad races were variations on white Europeans, and the movie was directed by Spike Lee. Might that not raise a few eyebrows?
===============================================
Back to Frozen, anyone else notice that Anna and Elsa have serious mental health issues? Anna apparently develops an overactive imagination and is so desperate for attention and companionship that she falls in love with the first guy that puts the moves towards her. Meanwhile Elsa must have some sort of eating disorder because she barely gets any exercise locked in her room, yet manages to maintain a great figure. Not to mention the lack of interaction has left her with serious emotional coping problems and a lack of empathy to the world around her, making her a borderline sociopath. |
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metalhead
Joined: 18 May 2010
Location: Toilet
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Imagine if instead, all the dwarves, elves, hobbits, and good races of men were black in appearance and all the bad races were variations on white Europeans, and the movie was directed by Spike Lee. Might that not raise a few eyebrows?
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Sure, but people are far too sensitive about 'racial' things these days - I'd love to watch a movie like that, not sure if I would want it directed by Spike Lee though, but I am going by his older movies, I heard from a few semi-reliable sources that his Old Boy remake was actually not that bad, so yes, bring on the black dwarves I say. |
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Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
Agreed. Frozen's success is LARGELY due to its songs. The story is meh, but the songs have dug their claws into nearly every female on this planet. lol
Honest Trailers: Frozen |
I disagree Captain. The music is a big part of it. But women also really like a love story with princes and princesses. |
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Sesame
Joined: 16 Mar 2014
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:15 am Post subject: |
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"white privilege" was earned by being a successful race and is dedicated to hard work. Why should it be stripped away? We are deserving of it.
It seems that being white is a crime and white countries must be multicultural. Asian for the Asians, African for the blacks but Germany and England and other predominately white cultures is for everyone. F out of here with that nonsense. |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| The movie, as all modern Disney movies, is directed at females. In fact, many classic fairy tales have a female protagonist and female antagonist as well. There are some great fairy tales of old that don't focus on gender specifically. Of course, not many are successful, but some have been like Pinnochio and a few others that I'm too lazy to remember. These days, it seems like most modern pop culture art is all about the female mind. The movie has far more to do with sexism than racism. |
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grnmle
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:14 am Post subject: |
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What a piece of work this guy is. I don't know that he has any real insight about what actually happens in the world. His writing just seems to reveal his own insecurities about riding in elevators with black men.
Personally I think Snow Yellow wouldn't really sell that well. So if you had an Asian woman you might have to change the name. I would love to see it, personally. But, a lot of parents might not be into that kind of thing. |
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Jongno2bucheon
Joined: 11 Mar 2014
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:46 am Post subject: Re: KT columnist: Disney's "Frozen" is racist |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Jongno2bucheon wrote: |
Very thought provoking. Would many people here want to watch a movie with a handsome Asian male lead? |
I liked the movie "Hero" just fine, and that had a handsome Asian male lead character. |
Asian males only play martial arts characters.
The last movie that had an Asian male romantic lead who had visceral romantic scenes was "The Lover" a French movie from over 20 years ago.
Bruce Lee initially was rejected from Hollywood because they did not want an Asian male to be a lead character. In fact, in "The Last Dragon", a love scene with Bruce Lee and a caucasian lady was cut out of the American version.
While some people like you may be fine with Asian male romantic leads, there is a significant insecure population that never wants the 150 year history and identity of Asian Americans who helped build America to be known. |
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Jongno2bucheon
Joined: 11 Mar 2014
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:50 am Post subject: |
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Btw, I think Frozen is a great movie that is finally directed at female maturity and character development.
There are plenty of examples of a deliberate lack of Asian American representation in the west. It is something that may even pervade a cartoon, but more time needs to be spent discussing it, by everyone, no doubt. |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| Sesame wrote: |
"white privilege" was earned by being a successful race and is dedicated to hard work. Why should it be stripped away? We are deserving of it.
It seems that being white is a crime and white countries must be multicultural. Asian for the Asians, African for the blacks but Germany and England and other predominately white cultures is for everyone. F out of here with that nonsense. |
Report: Black Preschoolers Suspended More than Whites
http://time.com/33514/report-black-preschoolers-suspended-more-than-whites/?hpt=hp_t2
I think it all starts at home. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| Sesame wrote: |
"white privilege" was earned by being a successful race and is dedicated to hard work. Why should it be stripped away? We are deserving of it.
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Yeah, that whole chattel slavery, colonialization, and genocidal forced removal of indigenous peoples had nothing to do with it. Look, if you want to trumpet Shakespeare and the Apollo Program, you gotta swallow smallpox blankets and gunning down unarmed Indians peacefully protesting with it.
Also, the fact remains that every gain by minority groups to get treated like fellow human beings had to come through decades or centuries of struggle, not by white males suddenly deciding to act right out of the goodness of their hearts. Blacks, Latinos, Jews, Women, Gays, all of them had to fight the establishment tooth and nail just to be treated like a human being. Do you not get that within the lifetime of people currently alive today, those groups were not treated as full fledged member of the human race? Do you not see how that has had a profound effect on all of those groups in Western society? I mean, if we are so quick to point out entrenched racial attitudes towards foreigners in Korea, I think we should be quick to acknowledge such forces in our own society.
While white privilege is an overused term that demonizes white males en masse, there is a reason why people are so militant about such things. It's basically the only reason things have ever changed.
| Quote: |
| Sure, but people are far too sensitive about 'racial' things these days - I'd love to watch a movie like that, not sure if I would want it directed by Spike Lee though, but I am going by his older movies, I heard from a few semi-reliable sources that his Old Boy remake was actually not that bad, so yes, bring on the black dwarves I say. |
Fine, let's have a Korean movie where all the heroes look Asian and all the villains look white in an epic struggle for the fate of the world, I'm sure that would go over real well here... |
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wanderkind
Joined: 01 Jan 2012
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Where in the article does he say Frozen is racist? Isn't more that Frozen has white characters because whites are racist? |
LOL.
Some editor titled that article specifically to stir folks up / generate page views.
Frozen is only mentioned in 1 paragraph, and only as a contemporary example for his argument. It could have just as easily been titled White Privilege in Tarzan.
Although the author seems to be selectively forgetting Mulan and Princess and the Frog and Pocohontas, even Pocohontas wasn't as profitable as Frozen. However, if Pocohontas was marketed internationally as aggressively as Frozen...
It's a reasonable enough question he poses. Distracting, if not intentionally misleading title. |
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