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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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 Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:49 am Post subject: Proposed new rule to avoid racism |
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Instead of saying, "Koreans do this" or "Koreans do that"
Why don't we say, "most Koreans", "some Koreans."
Or better yet, "a lot of people here", "a good majority of people in this country..." .or "maybe something around 70 percent of Koreans here....."
This will help people to avoid generalizations based on race and to really focus on the things that need to change. Then we don't have to hear SR and Patrick post constantly on how the Korean people are denigrated and looked down upon by the posters on this board. |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:35 am Post subject: Re: Proposed new rule to avoid racism |
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| postfundie wrote: |
Instead of saying, "Koreans do this" or "Koreans do that"
Why don't we say, "most Koreans", "some Koreans."
Or better yet, "a lot of people here", "a good majority of people in this country..." .or "maybe something around 70 percent of Koreans here....."
This will help people to avoid generalizations based on race and to really focus on the things that need to change. Then we don't have to hear SR and Patrick post constantly on how the Korean people are denigrated and looked down upon by the posters on this board. |
Good idea and you can extend that to culture as well. Not all bad things that happen in Korea are a result of the failings of Confucianism.
Also terms like 'White' and 'Asian' should also be dropped as they dont really mean anything. I am guilty of using the terms myself and I know it is futile, but if you want to refer to a particular ethnic group be specific.
White people or Asian people are not groups that actually exist in reality. For example, White people in Poland and Canada have a very distinct cultural history. The same goes for Vietnamese and Korean people.
It just seems strange to constantly reduce the varied nationalities and ethnicities of Europe, Africa and Asia into simple White/Black/Asian blocks. |
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Sesame
Joined: 16 Mar 2014
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:45 am Post subject: |
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I say the OP should understand that is what is implied when saying "Koreans". Surely no one is dumb enough on here to suggest 100% of Koreans act a certain way.
Liberals are so annoying. captain save a race. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Proposed new rule to avoid racism |
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| postfundie wrote: |
Instead of saying, "Koreans do this" or "Koreans do that"
Why don't we say, "most Koreans", "some Koreans."
Or better yet, "a lot of people here", "a good majority of people in this country..." .or "maybe something around 70 percent of Koreans here....."
This will help people to avoid generalizations based on race and to really focus on the things that need to change. Then we don't have to hear SR and Patrick post constantly on how the Korean people are denigrated and looked down upon by the posters on this board. |
In other words, why don't people do what they should have been doing in the first place?
This shouldn't be a new rule, this should be the norm. The fact that it isn't is why it gets called out.
Even then, it is still dodgy. You do realize what you are saying in other terms is that we should go from "Blacks steal and do drugs" to "70 percent of blacks steal and do drugs". |
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cam83
Joined: 27 Jan 2013
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:24 am Post subject: |
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New rule to avoid being racist? Are you drunk? How about just don't say racist BS.
Serious question OP, why did you make this thread? Because if it was genuinely coming from a good place, with the intention of trying to help others avoid being racist , I'd like to hear it.
However, if you were so caught up in your own ego that you thought a bunch of grown men and women would read your OP and be like "daaaamn son, I gotta learn how to be less racist and now I know how... thanks for the suggestion brah!" then this is hilarious~ |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:56 am Post subject: |
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The OP makes a good point about how posters should be careful and avoid generalising when discussing race and ethnicity.
There is absolutely no reason to fault that comment.
On other threads people make points about 'Whites', 'Blacks' and 'Asians'. These are groups that include literally billions of people and yet they proceed to make all sorts of observations that are supposed to apply to them as a whole.
The lack of any sort of nuance in regards to this topic is the reason why the OP's original comment should be welcome. |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| cam83 wrote: |
New rule to avoid being racist? Are you drunk? How about just don't say racist BS.
Serious question OP, why did you make this thread? Because if it was genuinely coming from a good place, with the intention of trying to help others avoid being racist , I'd like to hear it.
However, if you were so caught up in your own ego that you thought a bunch of grown men and women would read your OP and be like "daaaamn son, I gotta learn how to be less racist and now I know how... thanks for the suggestion brah!" then this is hilarious~ |
I believe you missed the point. He means if we are going to make generalizations about koreans, using "most" or "many" would keep posters like Steelrails from using it as way to downplay these generalizations, which happen to be mostly true despite the fact that that there are exceptions. It's the exceptions that posters like Steelrails use to try to say that these statements are not characteristic of Koreans, even though they are. Therefore, he's not trying to lecture us about racism. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Proposed new rule to avoid racism |
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| postfundie wrote: |
| Then we don't have to hear SR and Patrick post constantly on how the Korean people are denigrated and looked down upon by the posters on this board. |
| Stain wrote: |
| I believe you missed the point. He means if we are going to make generalizations about koreans, using "most" or "many" would keep posters like Steelrails from using it as way to downplay these generalizations, which happen to be mostly true despite the fact that that there are exceptions. It's the exceptions that posters like Steelrails use to try to say that these statements are not characteristic of Koreans, even though they are. Therefore, he's not trying to lecture us about racism. |
What's happened to this site, where one user's opinion matters so much? |
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DosEquisXX
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Thought it was pretty well implied that when people saying "Koreans are...", they aren't saying that every single Korean is like that. |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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Curious to know when the term 'Oriental' became un-pc. I corrected someone last week about this, told them that my wife hates it. 'Asian' is the correct term to use when discussing the race. He was embarrassed that he didn't know. Asked me why, and I really didn't know the answer.
It's the result of people trying to solve an embolism with a bandage.
People use words in a harmful manner. That doesn't make the words themselves malicious, but the context and intention behind them.
Growing up, using 'oriental' was accepted. I know that there are negative stereotypes and connotations associated with the term, but I didn't know when the change came about.
Oriental - Referring to "Asian" people.
Jap - Especially if you served in WWII
JAP - Even if you're Jewish, apparently
Jew - My Jewish friends don't seem to mind it, but apparently it's derogatory.
Black - Silly, but yeah, you can't refer to someone by skin color as a categorization.
Negro - "African" is apparently a less offensive cultural stigma than "Negro", even though they mean the same thing
Brother - Ok, but it's cheesy anyway
Chick - Unless you're talking about baby birds... err... if you're from UK, I mean the animal
Biotch - Same as above, but for dogs... or if you're talking about a male friend.
Spic - 'n' Span I have many friends from Latin America who don't even know what it means! LOL so who is it offending?
Still acceptable: "Cracka", "Gringo", "WASP", "The Man", etc
Last edited by Died By Bear on Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Stain wrote: |
I believe you missed the point. He means if we are going to make generalizations about koreans, using "most" or "many" would keep posters like Steelrails from using it as way to downplay these generalizations, which happen to be mostly true despite the fact that that there are exceptions. It's the exceptions that posters like Steelrails use to try to say that these statements are not characteristic of Koreans, even though they are. Therefore, he's not trying to lecture us about racism. |
But we also must remember, that even if we use the qualifier of say, "most" we have to make sure that this is indeed the case, and not say, something driven by a negativity bias or exaggerated for effect. We also have to make sure that these things aren't characteristic of most human beings in general. If they are, then labeling it a "Korean phenomenon" is inappropriate, what is occurring is a human being phenomenon. We should also be careful to not throw out the "culture" explanation for every action. If two Korean's get in a car accident, we shouldn't just chalk it up to culture. If two foreigners got in a car accident, would we blame it on culture? Or would we just treat one individual as having made a driving error? The fact that some people "criticizing" or "suggesting changes" fail to do those things is what some of us are pointing in certain examples. Any college-educated adult should see the need for applying the above rules. It's basic reasoning, analysis, and critical thinking. Remember, the 'thinking' is the key part of critical thinking, not the 'critical'.
Lastly, the fact is that occasionally posts are made that are clearly little more than bigoted rants. Just because they don't use any ethnic slurs doesn't mean they aren't bigoted. It is the thought process and the generalizations and the negativity contained in them. I'll post again the example I used in the other thread-
Someone could say that "Some of America's inner city's face elevated crime rates that have persisted for decades, perhaps its time for new approaches to address this problem."
Or they could say "Nothing but a bunch of savages firing off guns, what a lovely "culture" there. They may have flatscreen TVs, but that doesn't mean they're part of the first world."
Now, which type of comment do you see more frequently from people "criticizing" or "wanting to make things better"?
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And I have to echo cam83-
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| New rule to avoid being racist? Are you drunk? How about just don't say racist BS. |
Exactly! You're not supposed to say racist stuff!!!! You're supposed to not overly-generalize! You're not supposed to write like that in the first place! I mean we have threads going on where people are denying white privilege and bigotry and now we have people saying "Hey, we shouldn't generalize and be racist!" in other words, "Maybe we should start doing the right thing". And this comes after years of people on this board constantly pointing it out and arguing constantly. But please, don't do it because of me or PGHBusan or TUM. Do it because it is the right thing to do! |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Died By Bear wrote: |
Curious to know when the term 'Oriental' became un-pc. I corrected someone last week about this, told them that my wife hates it. 'Asian' is the correct term to use when discussing the race. He was embarrassed that he didn't know. Asked me why, and I really didn't know the answer.
It's the result of people trying to solve an embolism with a bandage.
People use words in a harmful manner. That doesn't make the words themselves malicious, but the context and intention behind them.
Growing up, using 'oriental' was accepted. I know that there are negative stereotypes and connotations associated with the term, but I didn't know when the change came about.
Oriental - Referring to "Asian" people.
Jap - Especially if you served in WWII
[u]JAP[/u] - Even if you're Jewish, apparently
Jew - My Jewish friends don't seem to mind it, but apparently it's derogatory.
Black - Silly, but yeah, you can't refer to someone by skin color as a categorization.
Negro - "African" is apparently a less offensive cultural stigma than "Negro", even though they mean the same thing
Brother - Ok, but it's cheesy anyway
Chick - Unless you're talking about baby birds... err... if you're from UK, I mean the animal
Biotch - Same as above, but for dogs... or if you're talking about a male friend.
Spic - 'n' Span I have many friends from Latin America who don't even know what it means! LOL so who is it offending?
Still acceptable: "Cracka", "Gringo", "WASP", "The Man", etc |
Jewish American Princess is obviously derogatory. |
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maximmm
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: Proposed new rule to avoid racism |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Even then, it is still dodgy. You do realize what you are saying in other terms is that we should go from "Blacks steal and do drugs" to "70 percent of blacks steal and do drugs". |
Agreed, that would be a discrimination of sorts against the other 30% of black people that get no mention at all. |
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cam83
Joined: 27 Jan 2013
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: Proposed new rule to avoid racism |
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| maximmm wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
Even then, it is still dodgy. You do realize what you are saying in other terms is that we should go from "Blacks steal and do drugs" to "70 percent of blacks steal and do drugs". |
Agreed, that would be a discrimination of sorts against the other 30% of black people that get no mention at all. |
Please allow 5 to 7 business days for me to understand the joke you just made. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Sesame wrote: |
I say the OP should understand that is what is implied when saying "Koreans". Surely no one is dumb enough on here to suggest 100% of Koreans act a certain way.
Liberals are so annoying. captain save a race. |
+1.
How about saying instead: "those people who emerged from the inner depths of a place near Mongolia" and "those people who originated out of nothern Europe and Central Indo Asia" for the others? Is that PC enough for you? |
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