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Jongno2bucheon
Joined: 11 Mar 2014
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 Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Jongno2bucheon wrote: |
Actually thats why youtube is blowing up with Asian American youtube stars. From kevjumba to higa, etc... Who easily get over a million hits per episode. |
Then what's there to complain about? People hungry for Asian American leads get to see them for free and on demand.
| Jongno2bucheon wrote: |
| But still they are losing huge huge chunks of the American audience interested in handsome Asian men to Korean dramas. Just like the Republican party trying to cater to white males only, Hollywood will have to adapt even more, or face extinction. |
That seems like a business concern rather than an ethical one. Besides, why demand centralization? Given countries like Korea are pumping out plenty of hours of Asian-lead programming each month, why not simply let them handle it, and let Hollywood writers focus on writing what they want? If that means Hollywood products end up losing market share in the process, well, that's fine, even good. Competition is good. |
Yes, including competition from Asian American media. However, an entrance to the typical mass media market hinges on a overcoming a high barrier to entry, which is very highly correlated with having enough money for resources. In that case, centralization has already happened in a capitalistic economy via access to resources to overcoming those barriers.
So the typical aversion to "centralized dictatorship" hinges on human misbehavior (at the top). However, shifting society to "centralized capitalism"(power via corporate resources) also does not nullify human aversion towards a"misbehaving dictator", it just shifts it towards a "misbehaving capitalist".
All in all, which is why mass media deals with fundamental human rights, since it ties together power via capitalist resources with political rights.
In this way, capitalism infringes on political rights. However, with Youtube, this represents the lowering of entry barriers, and therefore expansion of political rights.
This is why Youtube and other channels like it deserve access to cable and national television stations and channels. But to stop this via centralized capitalism, is a fundamental infringement on political rights. Similar to a dictatorship.
Last edited by Jongno2bucheon on Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:39 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Jongno2bucheon
Joined: 11 Mar 2014
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
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| Now Hollywood is sticking Rain and Kim Byung Hyun in roles here and there |
The pitcher who served up those two home runs in the World Series?? |
LOL yeah, I got the Kim and the Lee mixed up. One is more known to guys, the other more known to girls. Thank gawd that its way past 2001. |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:31 am Post subject: |
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My 4 nieces and nephew in Korea have seen this movie 9 times. I just recently found out exactly how popular the Disney stuff for this movie is. Everything has been out of stock until this morning. Spent an hour in line with about 40 other people outside ToysRus. Spent 240.00 on Olaf dolls, princess dolls, DVD and CD's, just wow. Shipping was another 90.00
But they're only 4-5 yrs. old and I love them, so it makes me happy. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| EZE wrote: |
Steelrails, your avatar is racist and sexist! It completely excludes Asians and there's only one woman, and only at the very end! Everyone else is male and there are too many whites, at least three!  |
It does have one alien- Charlie Villanueva. And Rasheed Wallace is everyone. |
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metalhead
Joined: 18 May 2010
Location: Toilet
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Meh, whites are the most diverse and best-looking race there is, can't blame people for wanting to see us. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| cam83 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| cam83 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| cam83 wrote: |
. Non-whites make up around 40% of America, the representation in the media however, does not reflect reality.
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Apparently neither does your 40% claim.
According to the 2012 US census. 77.9% of people in the U.S are listed/self-identify as White.
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html
When you have very nearly 4 out of 5 people identifying with "white" then it would seem only good marketing to make most of your films have white leads.
http://vimninsights.viacom.com/post/71699716724/how-young-u-s-latinos-feel-about-their-portrayal
In October, USC’s Annenberg School for Communication and Journalism released a study revealing that in the top 100 grossing films of 2012, only 4% of speaking characters were Hispanic. In fact, they are the most under-represented group in movies (76% White, 11% Black, 5% Asian).
As we can see the white percentage as a group of actors is about the same (slightly lower) as the group percentage out of the population. |
The statistic you gave (77.9%) and the statistic I was referring to (63%) is in the same list, so is your figure including Hispanics and Latino's who have just registered as white? (I know this happens of course and taking into account that 23.5% of the population are under 18yrs old means they are likely to be registered by their parents) because my list specifically excludes them.
So going off what I wrote (around 40%) are you taking issue with the fact that I was out by 3% even though I said 'around' ?
I'm not quite sure what the second link has to do with non-whites not getting the same levels of opportunity to play lead roles but perhaps you could elaborate. |
77.9% may well include Hispanics and Latinos who have registered as whites. My point is that if they (obviously) self-identify as white...why would they have a problem with white leads?
Also if they identify as "white" who are you to say they shouldn't? So if we go by that self-metric we can see that that figure corresponds to the percentage of white roles almost exactly. 77.9% in the population and 76% of movie roles. Also going by this self-metric that leaves 22.1% which is a far cry from 40%
As for the second link...I was merely giving the breakdown of certain ethnic groups in movie roles...I thought that was what we were discussing. |
Stop. You've got this really wrong - you said that my claim does not reflect reality, then you provide a link which CLEARLY shows TWO categories in the list (1 whites, 1 whites not including Hispanics/Latinos) why do you think they have 2 categories?
Have you ever spoken to a Hispanics/Latino as to why they would tick 'white' when registering? They know about white privilege and it's advantages. It can make a difference in schooling, jobs or social status as it allows them to 'pass' as white - that is not the same as BEING white.
I didn't say they shouldn't register as white, please don't bring it up again.
So let's not take self-registering and actual racial identity to be the same thing, they are not.
As for your second point, please re-read my response again and realize that 'speaking character' does not translate to 'lead role'.
Nice try. |
They have two categories because they want to show "white" and the H/L demographic...not because they don't consider H/L non-whites.
A few questions ...do you or do not consider H/L to be white? And if so why? What is/are YOUR metric(s) for a person to be considered "white."?
Secondly how do you KNOW for a fact that all those millions and millions of H/L are registering as "white" because of "white privilege"? How do you know that none/few of them consider themselves "white"?
Apparently you've never heard of "White Hispanics/Latinos"?
From Wiki
| Quote: |
| In the United States, a White Hispanic or White Latino[3] is a citizen or resident who is racially white (i.e., of primarily European descent) and of Hispanic descent. White American, itself an official U.S. racial category, refers to people "having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa" who reside in the United States.[4] |
| Quote: |
| As of 2010, 50.5 million or 16.3% of Americans identified as Hispanic or Latino.[1] Of those, 26.7 million, or 53%, also identified as White. |
I'm fairly sure the majority identify themselves as "White" because...they are? If "white privilege" is to be obtained merely by registering for it...then why don't other minority groups do so as well?
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:24 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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tatertot
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| When did Dave's ESL Cafe start redirecting to Tumblr? |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| cam83 wrote: |
Slavery and western colonization (my original post) = "THEIR group in charge, with the others relegated to the sidelines or worse" in a nutshell. There are links between the two, which is important in the greater context as we are specifically talking about the issue in America/Hollywood. Do you disagree with this statement? If so, I'd like to know why beyond just what you think. |
Actually the bolded statement was in reference to ALL groups, but your bias/prejudice (don't deny it) means you can only view it one way.
Would you deny that ALL groups potentially have a tendency to want their own in charge and relegate other groups to the sidelines, or do you think it's just white people who do this?
As far as the Hollywood Movie industry goes, yes it's mostly white because guess who's currently doing most of the producing, writing, directing, etc., and guess who they believe the majority of the target audience is. It's not some insidious plot against all "People of Color", and it's certainly not "slavery" as you tried to link the statement to.
Also, don't try to lecture anyone on what racism is or isn't as though you are some expert. I remember you from a previous thread where you tried to do that before, pushing your own narrow definition of it on everyone and then having to backpedal hard when it became obvious you were wrong about it. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| cam83 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| cam83 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| cam83 wrote: |
. Non-whites make up around 40% of America, the representation in the media however, does not reflect reality.
. |
Apparently neither does your 40% claim.
According to the 2012 US census. 77.9% of people in the U.S are listed/self-identify as White.
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html
When you have very nearly 4 out of 5 people identifying with "white" then it would seem only good marketing to make most of your films have white leads.
http://vimninsights.viacom.com/post/71699716724/how-young-u-s-latinos-feel-about-their-portrayal
In October, USC’s Annenberg School for Communication and Journalism released a study revealing that in the top 100 grossing films of 2012, only 4% of speaking characters were Hispanic. In fact, they are the most under-represented group in movies (76% White, 11% Black, 5% Asian).
As we can see the white percentage as a group of actors is about the same (slightly lower) as the group percentage out of the population. |
The statistic you gave (77.9%) and the statistic I was referring to (63%) is in the same list, so is your figure including Hispanics and Latino's who have just registered as white? (I know this happens of course and taking into account that 23.5% of the population are under 18yrs old means they are likely to be registered by their parents) because my list specifically excludes them.
So going off what I wrote (around 40%) are you taking issue with the fact that I was out by 3% even though I said 'around' ?
I'm not quite sure what the second link has to do with non-whites not getting the same levels of opportunity to play lead roles but perhaps you could elaborate. |
77.9% may well include Hispanics and Latinos who have registered as whites. My point is that if they (obviously) self-identify as white...why would they have a problem with white leads?
Also if they identify as "white" who are you to say they shouldn't? So if we go by that self-metric we can see that that figure corresponds to the percentage of white roles almost exactly. 77.9% in the population and 76% of movie roles. Also going by this self-metric that leaves 22.1% which is a far cry from 40%
As for the second link...I was merely giving the breakdown of certain ethnic groups in movie roles...I thought that was what we were discussing. |
Stop. You've got this really wrong - you said that my claim does not reflect reality, then you provide a link which CLEARLY shows TWO categories in the list (1 whites, 1 whites not including Hispanics/Latinos) why do you think they have 2 categories?
Have you ever spoken to a Hispanics/Latino as to why they would tick 'white' when registering? They know about white privilege and it's advantages. It can make a difference in schooling, jobs or social status as it allows them to 'pass' as white - that is not the same as BEING white.
I didn't say they shouldn't register as white, please don't bring it up again.
So let's not take self-registering and actual racial identity to be the same thing, they are not.
As for your second point, please re-read my response again and realize that 'speaking character' does not translate to 'lead role'.
Nice try. |
They have two categories because they want to show "white" and the H/L demographic...not because they don't consider H/L non-whites.
A few questions ...do you or do not consider H/L to be white? And if so why? What is/are YOUR metric(s) for a person to be considered "white."?
Secondly how do you KNOW for a fact that all those millions and millions of H/L are registering as "white" because of "white privilege"? How do you know that none/few of them consider themselves "white"?
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He doesn't know.
He's putting his own bias against whites into the equation.
Latin America (and Mexico) is full of ethnically white Latinos from various backgrounds, but because they are white, he knows exactly what they must all be thinking. They aren't in his "People of Color" grouping, so they are probably guilty too. |
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ghostrider
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
Would you deny that ALL groups potentially have a tendency to want their own in charge and relegate other groups to the sidelines, or do you think it's just white people who do this?
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Of course, white people are not the only ones who do this.
Obama got 93% of the black vote in 2012.
"I Got a Boy" by Girls Generation was chosen as the best music video of the year largely because of Korean privilege. Koreans wanted a Korean group to win so they flooded YouTube's polls with their votes. Oddly, the Korea Times accused white people of racism in that case too because they did not applaud enough when the winner was announced. |
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cam83
Joined: 27 Jan 2013
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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Urban, regarding your questions:
I see H & L as different to white and even though wiki defines white H/L, in my experience (i.e the ones I've seen/met whilst living in the US), there weren't many times where distinguishing the two was difficult.
You're right, I don't KNOW what the millions of H/L are thinking when they register, I am only going from what they have told me, so yeah I shouldn't assume to think I KNOW what that translates to in national terms.
Yes I know of other minorities doing this too, I know a lot of mixed race people who pass as white.
Mix1, regarding your question:
On a global scale, no I won't deny that. In the context of social/economic advantage in America, yes I will.
You correctly pointed out that we previously had discussed race in a thread (maybe 6 months ago). Do you recall that, besides personal bickering, I was the only one to logically demonstrate 'systematic racism' and everyone who rejected my argument, said I was wrong but were unable to say why and point to any logical reasoning beyond their own opinion and the dictionary's definition (I think I was saying how in the US/Europe it's impossible for a black person to be racist to a white person).
I have a question for you: from that last thread and this one, of the people who didn't agree regarding the racism claim I put forward (whitewashing for lead roles in Hollywood or how it's not possible to be racist towards whites)... how many of these people do you think are non-white? |
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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| ghostrider wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
Would you deny that ALL groups potentially have a tendency to want their own in charge and relegate other groups to the sidelines, or do you think it's just white people who do this?
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Of course, white people are not the only ones who do this.
Obama got 93% of the black vote in 2012.
"I Got a Boy" by Girls Generation was chosen as the best music video of the year largely because of Korean privilege. Koreans wanted a Korean group to win so they flooded YouTube's polls with their votes. Oddly, the Korea Times accused white people of racism in that case too because they did not applaud enough when the winner was announced. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Slavery and western colonization (my original post) = "THEIR group in charge, with the others relegated to the sidelines or worse" in a nutshell. There are links between the two, which is important in the greater context as we are specifically talking about the issue in America/Hollywood. Do you disagree with this statement? If so, I'd like to know why beyond just what you think. |
So you're equating slavery and Western colonization to the current scene in Hollywood. That's just embarrassing for you. Firstly you viewed colonization as a purely Western activity then you attempted to assign an attribute every person in the world is prone to do exclusively to the white race. And the less said about how far apart slavery (which included every race) is from an Indian woman not becoming a Hobbit, the better.
I'm guessing the chip on your shoulder makes you genuinely believe there is a link between the two. It also seems you've acted as equally shamefully in a previous thread, where you claimed only white people could be racist.
To be treated equally you've got to stop demanding special treatment and concessions. It's time to lose the chip on your shoulder, stop waiting for someone else to do it for you, stop blaming others if you fail, and work for what you want in life. If you can do that then you'll earn all the "privilege" you need. |
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cam83
Joined: 27 Jan 2013
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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Serious questions Jazz,
Have you read any books by a black/Asian/Mexican/Native author about black/Asian/Mexican/Native history in America?
Have you read any books by a black/Asian/Mexican/Native author on racism or colonialism in America? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| ghostrider wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
Would you deny that ALL groups potentially have a tendency to want their own in charge and relegate other groups to the sidelines, or do you think it's just white people who do this?
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Of course, white people are not the only ones who do this.
Obama got 93% of the black vote in 2012. |
And perhaps more importantly, he completely dominated the Black vote in the Democratic primary against Clinton as well. There were 8 states where Obama won the White vote against Clinton, and 3 more where he lost it by less than 3%, but there were zero states where Clinton won the Black vote, nor did she even come close in any of them (the closest was New York, where Blacks favored Obama by a "mere" 24 percentage points). |
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