Korean Job Discussion Forums

[robbie_davies]

[Fox]

[robbie_davies]

[young_clinton]

So tell us all. What did we do to deserve your full page postings? Those are truly wonderful to behold. What happened to your partial page anti-American troll posts? Are we to see more of you now along with all the other crap that people are fed up with?

[robbie_davies]

[Fox]

Well, it's just as much my fault as Robbie's that these posts have gotten so long, so I'll try to be more concise in closing.

Regarding teachers adopting more easily-understood dialects while working, I agree that if they can do that, there's no real impediment. When you say, "Yes, I agree some accents are more challenging than others for non native speakers to understand..." that's more or less the point I think I've been trying to make. When I spoke of reticence to hire a teacher with a deep southern accent, I imagined him teaching in that accent, but of course if he's able to clarify his accent while in the classroom that ceases to be a concern. My position is not about trying to deny anyone jobs or protectionism; my interest in the matter is more or less abstract. Anyone who is both willing and able to clarify their unusual dialect patterns in the classroom can do a fine job (at least assuming they're otherwise a good teacher).

Regarding this:

[Stan Rogers]

Its very simple. The Koreans prefer North American English. All other types of English are viewed as less valauble or useful.

The market gets what the market demands.

[edwardcatflap]

[JimDanDee]

First, let me apologize. Not for what I will say, simply because someone will be offended.
I was educated(?) in the American South, but not as a 'normal' lad. My speech patterns are very difficult to ascertain and are as close to unaccented as most people ever hear - though I will mention that I have owned 'all wells' if I decide to put on airs. When I entered university many, many years ago, my two best pals each had a girlfriend who ended up rooming together their second year. One young lady was from Boston and the other was from Natchitoches. I became a regular visitor and impartial judge as they tried to outshine each other with their regional culinary skills. My contribution was as a translator between the two. Really, I would be called to breakup almost physical fights between the two that started as simple pronunciation errors. (the classic being, "Why would you put sewing in the refrigerator?")
In my opinion there ARE 'better' and 'worse' accents because some English speakers can NOT make themselves understood by other English speakers. I would feel sad if one of my students finished a course of mine sounding like either of those lovely coeds (at an accredited university in Kansas City.)
I have met 'Native Speakers' from at least four of the 'English speaking countries' who should be sued for fraud. Many of them from the 'British Isles' though I prefer a clear British accent. I understand wanting to avoid the chance of the least desirable accents and would recommend the OP insist that the recruiters talk via Skype (or some other means, although Skype is very easy - and free) in order to demonstrate ability to speak clear English.
I am still surprised that English conversation instructors are hired before having to demonstrate conversational proficiency. Too many non-North Americans speak unclear English (compared to the NUMBER of North Americans), so recruiters are wary with cause and are unable to judge conversation on their own. Yes, it is the recruiters fault, but now YOU must deal with it.

[wonkavite62]

I remember that years ago, with far less teaching experience than now, I came to Seoul to look for work. It was very much a last minute thing. I was attracted by the bright lights and stimulation of the capital. I did not expect to really experience discrimination.
I came to Seoul bright-eyed and bushy tailed. I went to the interview and the school's director had to conduct the interview through an interpreter since he spoke ONLY Korean. I got the job. But they kept on asking why at 31, I wasn't married.
I moved into a small, but lovely and well-equipped apartment in northern Seoul. Oh joy, I could see pagodas from my window! What I did not like was that there was a Korean teacher next door, who let me know that she would watch over me.
A couple of days later, I met the director's wife. I politely mentioned she had a slight Southern accent. That was my first mistake. Ah, accents" she sighed,"you know that Scottish accent is gonna cause us problems." Then she mentioned that I was not in their church and that would cause problems too. I am happy enough to go to church, what if it's the wrong church?
Very quickly, this Korean American dismissed me, but it was up to her husband to say so. I had not signed any contract.
I got a call from another recruiter-a smarmy Korean-Canadian with a Brian Mulroney accent. He told me that I could not get a job in Seoul, because (a) I was from Scotland with an accent, and (b) I had turned 31 and too old to be teaching in Seoul, and was (c) unmarried. If that call had taken place today, they might have mentioned a preference for women. I don't know. But religion had also come up. My relative LACK of experience wasn't even mentioned.
The reason I told this story is I want to point out that some schools, especially the little hagwons, discriminate on the basis of accents and all sorts of other things as well. It's not always rational, or fair, it's often not about teaching English, and sometimes it defies commonsense.
This may partly explain why it is that Koreans have a relatively low level of English on average?
When the Cathay Pacific plane landed in Hong Kong en route to London, I remember getting out and hearing the announcements. I heard Cantonese, Mandarin, and then-WAIT FOR IT- English in a Scottish accent. The woman spoke with the same accent as myself, and was perfectly clear.
But I supposed many Koreans had not gotten past Suwon. They had never communicated in a global (multi-lingual and multi-accented) market place. This is language with which the cookie cutter mindset has nothing to do.

[le-paul]

I know one thing for sure, theres no point bickering amongst ourselves over this - thats how it is and its unlikely it will change.

Koreans are very fickle and gullible. For some reason it has become more faddish to say this accent is better .

My guesstimation is that parents are blaming anything/everything on their children not succeeding. The children complain they don't understand teachers so parents assume it must be 'x'.
teachers then agree with parents.
Teachers complain to managers.
Managers complain to recruiters who will do anything to get money, so agree.

= North american accents prevail.

Ive also noticed this phenomenon a lot with regard to dokdo - that it is common knowledge 'it is all Japans fault' and the US had nothing to do with it.

I've also noticed a lot of kids saying these days, that they love the usa as it was the USA that saved them in the korean war (with no mention of the UN).

Ive also noticed a lot of Korean people saying lately that the USA are 'the peace keepers of the world'.

Ten years ago, the usa were the korean peoples enemy and almost everyone hated them and wanted them out of the country. I even remember defending the US soldiers here in an argument with 3 separate koreans.

Am beginning to wonder if these susceptible to suggestion people, are being fed this information from somewhere to encourage trade agreements?

Its all related

[Jongno2bucheon]

dood peoples... America is the global hegemon.

absent any british colonization influence or anti american oil politics it makes sense from a cost benefit analysis and market demand perspective. That's it. be like mike or messi. you have one spot... You get the one that gives you the most benefit. america has proved to be trustable than china over the past 10 years. Much more trustable.

That simple. korea will change when the world changed. fin

[young_clinton]

[robbie_davies]

[robbie_davies]