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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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 Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| le-paul wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
This brings problems when Americans, due to their lack of exposure to varieties of English, have difficulty understanding.
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(First off, I have never been to the USA so I dont know first hand so I have to go off what Ive read).
Americans - is quite a broad definition for a race of people. If I had to draw one and then write a typical family tree, I would have trouble deciding on a particular ancestry.
It also seems a little hypocritical to say they arent exposed to different accents considering how many Korean immigrants America claims to take.
Anyway...
The first website I checked states that in 2009, there were 38, 500,000 immigrants living in the USA. Im assuming that number has gone up.
Wiki says that in 2012, there are 38, 000, 000 people in the USA currently that speak spanish alone.
Im assuming of the first 38 million, most of them spoke a variety of English?
like the other poster said, i also think that by believing that you cant understand someone who speaks a variation of a language, is in short, ignorance.
This myth has obviously been perpetuated by the people claiming to have trouble with it. IE ........... (place name of indigenous people). |
I understand the point you are raising and it has merit. But in general, Americans are exposed to less varieties of English than other countries. Other native speaker countries tend to import tv programs from around the world more than America. The other native countries are also geographically more exposed to varieties of English. Also, America has less variations in dialects than the UK.
The size of America allows it to be self sufficient in many ways, thus exposing the average American to less varieties of English than other native countries. |
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Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| America is the center of the universe. |
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
| le-paul wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
This brings problems when Americans, due to their lack of exposure to varieties of English, have difficulty understanding.
. |
(First off, I have never been to the USA so I dont know first hand so I have to go off what Ive read).
Americans - is quite a broad definition for a race of people. If I had to draw one and then write a typical family tree, I would have trouble deciding on a particular ancestry.
It also seems a little hypocritical to say they arent exposed to different accents considering how many Korean immigrants America claims to take.
Anyway...
The first website I checked states that in 2009, there were 38, 500,000 immigrants living in the USA. Im assuming that number has gone up.
Wiki says that in 2012, there are 38, 000, 000 people in the USA currently that speak spanish alone.
Im assuming of the first 38 million, most of them spoke a variety of English?
like the other poster said, i also think that by believing that you cant understand someone who speaks a variation of a language, is in short, ignorance.
This myth has obviously been perpetuated by the people claiming to have trouble with it. IE ........... (place name of indigenous people). |
I understand the point you are raising and it has merit. But in general, Americans are exposed to less varieties of English than other countries. Other native speaker countries tend to import tv programs from around the world more than America. The other native countries are also geographically more exposed to varieties of English. Also, America has less variations in dialects than the UK.
The size of America allows it to be self sufficient in many ways, thus exposing the average American to less varieties of English than other native countries. |
Ok, I cant comment on the TV programmes being imported as I don't know the numbers.
However, if what youre saying is true, then of the say, 70-80 percent of the USAs citizens that have not recently migrated to to the USA legally, they have rarely, if not never, come into contact with the legal immigrants or have to converse with them? I find that very difficult to believe considering that a majority of people migrating, go to the united states to find work (and end up in the service industry or whatever). You then have the illegal immigrants (around 10-15 million?).
Regardless, i could mention a few 'ethnic/religious' groups that have their own particular way of talking, as well as the regional dialects and immigrant accents. Are you saying they don't understand each other?
It sounds preposterous to believe that. It seems to contradict every thing I have ever been told about how 'multi- cultural' the USA is. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| le-paul wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
| le-paul wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
This brings problems when Americans, due to their lack of exposure to varieties of English, have difficulty understanding.
. |
(First off, I have never been to the USA so I dont know first hand so I have to go off what Ive read).
Americans - is quite a broad definition for a race of people. If I had to draw one and then write a typical family tree, I would have trouble deciding on a particular ancestry.
It also seems a little hypocritical to say they arent exposed to different accents considering how many Korean immigrants America claims to take.
Anyway...
The first website I checked states that in 2009, there were 38, 500,000 immigrants living in the USA. Im assuming that number has gone up.
Wiki says that in 2012, there are 38, 000, 000 people in the USA currently that speak spanish alone.
Im assuming of the first 38 million, most of them spoke a variety of English?
like the other poster said, i also think that by believing that you cant understand someone who speaks a variation of a language, is in short, ignorance.
This myth has obviously been perpetuated by the people claiming to have trouble with it. IE ........... (place name of indigenous people). |
I understand the point you are raising and it has merit. But in general, Americans are exposed to less varieties of English than other countries. Other native speaker countries tend to import tv programs from around the world more than America. The other native countries are also geographically more exposed to varieties of English. Also, America has less variations in dialects than the UK.
The size of America allows it to be self sufficient in many ways, thus exposing the average American to less varieties of English than other native countries. |
Ok, I cant comment on the TV programmes being imported as I don't know the numbers.
However, if what youre saying is true, then of the say, 70-80 percent of the USAs citizens that have not recently migrated to to the USA legally, they have rarely, if not never, come into contact with the legal immigrants or have to converse with them? I find that very difficult to believe considering that a majority of people migrating, go to the united states to find work (and end up in the service industry or whatever). You then have the illegal immigrants (around 10-15 million?).
Regardless, i could mention a few 'ethnic/religious' groups that have their own particular way of talking, as well as the regional dialects and immigrant accents. Are you saying they don't understand each other?
It sounds preposterous to believe that. It seems to contradict every thing I have ever been told about how 'multi- cultural' the USA is. |
I'm not sure I understand your point. Also, to ask a question then comment on an assumed answer seems strange.
I'll post one more time, then I have more pressing matters to deal with.
If we take the UK and the USA as an example, a man from the UK will have more varieties of English in close geographic proximity than a man from the USA. The UK is the size of an American state, yet within the UK there are many dialects and varieties of English.
The UK also has an open door policy on immigration with fellow EU countries. This increases the variety of immigrants, thus varieties of English in the UK.
Due to the remnants of the empire the UK also has citizens from all over the world who have naturalized in the country.
A final basic example could be sports. Football is the most popular sport in the UK and American football is the most popular sport in the USA. If I we were to watch the highlights of the English Premier League we would be exposed to managers from Argentina, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Chile, Portugal, Spain, German, and more, as well as England. Keep in mind this is just the team managers, this doesn't take into consideration the players who are interviewed. |
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candy bar
Joined: 03 Dec 2012
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| robbie_davies wrote: |
| candy bar wrote: |
| robbie_davies wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
If you want to know why there is a preference for a North American accent you can search online.
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That preference exists in Korea (amongst other places) if we are going to be specific.
There is no preference for a North American accent in Russia, many parts of western Europe - France - for example, Singapore, Malaysia, China.
A lot of all of these preferences are based on ignorance.
| Quote: |
| I see the Scots being mentioned in particular, is that they have a colloquialised version of English that they use, and in the case of the Scots they have their own language - "Scots". When these people speak with native speakers they tend to revert to their colloquial English, due to the expectation of being understood. This brings problems when Americans, due to their lack of exposure to varieties of English, have difficulty understanding. |
Absolutely. |
No. Most places do prefer NAE. |
No they don't, most places actually have no preference. You have only worked in Korea, correct? |
Nope. Europe and Japan. Every time you assume you make an…. of yourself. You continue to do this over and over. |
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robbie_davies
Joined: 16 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
If we take the UK and the USA as an example, a man from the UK will have more varieties of English in close geographic proximity than a man from the USA. The UK is the size of an American state, yet within the UK there are many dialects and varieties of English. |
True, there are more varieties of English in the UK than in the States. Same comparison can be made for Spain and Mexico.
| Quote: |
| The UK also has an open door policy on immigration with fellow EU countries. |
Very recently, and nowhere near long enough to affect change.
| Quote: |
This increases the variety of immigrants, thus varieties of English in the UK.
Due to the remnants of the empire the UK also has citizens from all over the world who have naturalized in the country. |
Most immigrants, up until 2003 were subjects of the former British Empire and who were native English speakers in the vast majority of cases.
| Quote: |
| A final basic example could be sports. Football is the most popular sport in the UK and American football is the most popular sport in the USA. If I we were to watch the highlights of the English Premier League we would be exposed to managers from Argentina, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Chile, Portugal, Spain, German, and more, as well as England. |
Very recent phenonemon, in 1982, the Czech Jo Vengelos took over Aston Villa and that was unknown, the next foreign manager after him was the very anglicized Ossie Ardiles who took over Swindon Town - foriegn managers and players are a recent addition.
| Quote: |
| Keep in mind this is just the team managers, this doesn't take into consideration the players who are interviewed. |
When I was a kid in the 1980's. We had the odd Dutchman or Dane, it wasn't like now and I could safely say this was the case up until the mid 1990's.
The reason why British people don't baulk at other native speaker accents, American and Australian TV. All the shows the average American watched growing up, so did I - I don't think there would be many British English teachers who couldn't teach using American English vocabulary. |
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robbie_davies
Joined: 16 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| candy bar wrote: |
| robbie_davies wrote: |
| candy bar wrote: |
| robbie_davies wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
If you want to know why there is a preference for a North American accent you can search online.
|
That preference exists in Korea (amongst other places) if we are going to be specific.
There is no preference for a North American accent in Russia, many parts of western Europe - France - for example, Singapore, Malaysia, China.
A lot of all of these preferences are based on ignorance.
| Quote: |
| I see the Scots being mentioned in particular, is that they have a colloquialised version of English that they use, and in the case of the Scots they have their own language - "Scots". When these people speak with native speakers they tend to revert to their colloquial English, due to the expectation of being understood. This brings problems when Americans, due to their lack of exposure to varieties of English, have difficulty understanding. |
Absolutely. |
No. Most places do prefer NAE. |
No they don't, most places actually have no preference. You have only worked in Korea, correct? |
Nope. Europe and Japan. Every time you assume you make an…. of yourself. You continue to do this over and over. |
Europe eh? Where in Europe? England? Wales? Northern Ireland? Or do you still think Europe is one country like Japan?  |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| It really doesn't matter, does it? Hagwons will hire who they want to hire based on their personal circumstances. They hire from any English speaking country in my experience. Whatever accent it is, Koreans still have a cynical approach: pass the exams. They don't actually have to speak English in the long run. |
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drcrazy
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Location: Pusan. Yes, that's right. Pusan NOT Busan. I ain't never been to no place called Busan
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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One thing I have not understood is why the British say words that end in the letter "a" as if it ended with "er"
Americer
Africer
Princess Dianer
Or, as I heard a million timers on "Life Styles of the Rich and Famous":
A galer affair. |
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| drcrazy wrote: |
One thing I have not understood is why the British say words that end in the letter "a" as if it ended with "er"
Americer
Africer
Princess Dianer
Or, as I heard a million timers on "Life Styles of the Rich and Famous":
A galer affair. |
Thats true, we really do.
Its possibly the saxon or norman influence that stuck but i think its more likely the norse, as they were heavy on the 'r' sound too. Probably a combination.
eg
gastiz -> gestr -> gestur
walþuz -> völlr -> völlur
segaz -> sigr -> sigur
Ive never understood why americans don't pronounce the 'h' on words such as 'herb' and then use an as the article. It sounds more french to me than English?
And I never understood why when americans want to be seen as upper class, or better educated, they mimic a british (posh) accent (for example carlton in the fresh prince)? |
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I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:19 am Post subject: |
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I'd suggest stop being British.
Say that you're Canadian from British Columbia, thus the accent.
Or that you studied at Queens University in Canada, thus the accent.
Aren't Canada and the U.K. the same country?
What a fucked up world - Canada should be part of the U.S. but gets none of the benefits yet is part of the U.K. with the same Queen and history yet gets none of the benefits.
I vote Canada just becomes the next state in the U.S. and we send the rest to Hell. |
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| I'm With You wrote: |
I'd suggest stop being British.
Say that you're Canadian from British Columbia, thus the accent.
Or that you studied at Queens University in Canada, thus the accent.
Aren't Canada and the U.K. the same country?
What a fucked up world - Canada should be part of the U.S. but gets none of the benefits yet is part of the U.K. with the same Queen and history yet gets none of the benefits.
I vote Canada just becomes the next state in the U.S. and we send the rest to Hell. |
I concur.
The UK don't get any benefits from being joined with Canada, whether culturally, technologically, academically or other. I could understand in the old days but now, nah. |
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drydell
Joined: 01 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:43 am Post subject: |
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| Koreans need exposure to a wide variety of Brit accents most importantly for Game of Thrones. |
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I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:44 am Post subject: |
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le-paul,
Exactly.
I believe there will be a North American continent one day that will be like a European Union.
Canada - U.S. - Mexico and there will be no real prohibitions to movement for work and jobs.
Possibily, and I hope this happens, Canada will just bee annexed by the United States and British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba will become states and Ontario / Quebec can sort it out themselves.
Essentially, western Canada will just become an extension of Washington all the way up to Alaska.
I guess Yukon and North West Territories would also be amalgamated.
I would love to see this. |
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Jongno2bucheon
Joined: 11 Mar 2014
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| America is the center of the universe. |
4 main reasons why
1) Asian American natives in Silicon Valley CA (leader in tech)
2) European immigrant Professors in CA and east coast(leader in research)
3) Military (leader in world affairs)
4) Hollywood (CA) |
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