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tardisrider
Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| 337heaven wrote: |
| And my dad can beat up both of your dads |
How...how much would that cost? |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| Tigermoth wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
| Any military contractor ESL job in Saudi absolutely crushes any Korean university job. Do the comparison - there is no comparison. |
I think we can safely assume that just about any EFL job in Saudi Arabia will pay more than a standard Korean univ job in terms of net salary. However, you'd be lucky to find any Saudi EFL jobs requiring fewer than 20 contact hrs per week and offering 4 months' leave (as some Korean univs still do). So, you'll be working significantly harder for your petrodollars. Also, SA jobs can involve contact with some pretty awkward students. And if it's military, the thought that you've been a cog in the wheel that helps to crush legitimate dissent in Bahrain, for example, may leave a nasty taste in the mouth, perhaps. At least within a typical Korean univ mandatory English programme you're just a cog in a wheel that helps to crush any chance of significantly enhancing your students' proficiency in English  |
It is the total amount of work that is important - not contract hours . And at many Korean Universities (more and more all the time ) someone is going to have to do a much , much more work than just their contract hours. And that puts it all into perspective.
Dave's has an International job discussion board. It is not the worst idea ever to go and have a look,
| Quote: |
Places I've worked in the gulf and their salaries in USD after all deductions at the end of my contracts:
Raytheon 8700
BAE 9100
Vinnell 6200
General Dynamics 11,200 (not a typo)
I have a BA. |
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=104817&start=0
| Quote: |
Package on offer:
•Salary of $72,000 USD, €55,000 EURO, £44,000 Sterling, TAX FREE
•Rolling 12 month contacts ( last month of contract paid holiday)
•End of contract bonus
•Paid accommodation, to a high standard, inc. utility bills
•Paid return flights from country of origin to KSA
•Paid Medical Insurance
•Travel cost to and from work covered
•Superb holiday benefits
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http://www.eslcafe.com/joblist/index.cgi?read=30260
So there you go.
Last edited by GENO123 on Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:36 am; edited 2 times in total |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| I'm With You wrote: |
[q
Any tenured Japanese EFL position absolutely crushes any Saudi or Korean university job.
Do the comparison - there is no comparison. |
Are they hiring? |
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swashbuckler
Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| SeoulNate wrote: |
| swashbuckler wrote: |
| SeoulNate wrote: |
| how is that the 3rd best TESOL job in Korea? the pay is crap for a uni in Seoul. |
It's not crap pay but it's definitely not the "3rd best TESOL job in Korea"..its just a standard McUniversity job in Korea...3.4 a month, 12 hours a week, 4 day work week, paid 5 months off a year, teaching writing (extra grading time) or "presentation" English or whatever, no guarantee of advancement or anything beyond a 1 year contract, etc...ask most unit instructions in Seoul and they probably get a similar deal.. it probably thinks it can get away with offering whatever it wants just because it's considered that "Harvard of Korea"..also they advertise EVERY semester on Dave's ESL Cafe (a well-regarded academic website) so what might that be saying?... |
except their quoted pay is 600 a month lower than that |
I was including the posted 600,000 housing allowance
Did anyone on here actually apply and get an interview with them? |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
2,972,000 won (before taxation and insurance deduction). You will be paid 35,000 won/hour for any additional hours of teaching.
6. Housing: Foreign faculty members are entitled to stay in an on-campus apartment for the duration of the contract. Monthly rent varies between 398,000 won (studio apartment) and 630,000 won |
It does not seem from my reading this that housing is included at all-- only that employees are allowed to live in the on-campus apartments. This means the effective monthly pay is 2.574m won or 2.342m won. Am I misreading this? If so, that's a poor wage for someone with a graduate degree. It should not be difficult to find a uni freshman-English position that pays 3m with housing with some effort, particularly with the OP's qualifications.
SNU is renowned for its bad attitude toward and shabby treatment of foreign faculty. I suspect that many instructors put up with this because they can more or less name their price when teaching private lessons on the side. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:38 am Post subject: |
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contact hours / contract hours - almost the same thing . Total work that one has to do in comparison for pay what counts.
In Korea your students are clearly much better but employers are often not and could very well be (FAR) worse.
It goes w/o saying that many Korean university positions (dare I say most )just aren't good jobs to have anymore. Even when you consider the benefit of vacations cause outside of that everything else (pay / working conditions ) at those schools is a negative.
Last edited by GENO123 on Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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drcrazy
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Location: Pusan. Yes, that's right. Pusan NOT Busan. I ain't never been to no place called Busan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:33 am Post subject: |
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[quote="swashbuckler"]
| SeoulNate wrote: |
| swashbuckler wrote: |
| SeoulNate wrote: |
| how is that the 3rd best TESOL job in Korea? the pay is crap for a uni in Seoul. |
It's not crap pay but it's definitely not the "3rd best TESOL job in Korea"..its just a standard McUniversity job in Korea...3.4 a month, 12 hours a week, 4 day work week, paid 5 months off a year, teaching writing (extra grading time) or "presentation" English or whatever, no guarantee of advancement or anything beyond a 1 year contract, etc...ask most unit instructions in Seoul and they probably get a similar deal.. it probably thinks it can get away with offering whatever it wants just because it's considered that "Harvard of Korea"..also they advertise EVERY semester on Dave's ESL Cafe (a well-regarded academic website) so what might that be saying?... |
except their quoted pay is 600 a month lower than that |
I was including the posted 600,000 housing allowance
Did anyone on here actually apply and get an interview with them?[/quote]
I want to know that also. I still can not believe anyone would have all they need for the required minimum 500% to apply. |
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jackson7
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Location: Kim Jong Il's Future Fireball
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:57 am Post subject: |
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[quote="drcrazy"]
| swashbuckler wrote: |
| SeoulNate wrote: |
| swashbuckler wrote: |
| SeoulNate wrote: |
| how is that the 3rd best TESOL job in Korea? the pay is crap for a uni in Seoul. |
It's not crap pay but it's definitely not the "3rd best TESOL job in Korea"..its just a standard McUniversity job in Korea...3.4 a month, 12 hours a week, 4 day work week, paid 5 months off a year, teaching writing (extra grading time) or "presentation" English or whatever, no guarantee of advancement or anything beyond a 1 year contract, etc...ask most unit instructions in Seoul and they probably get a similar deal.. it probably thinks it can get away with offering whatever it wants just because it's considered that "Harvard of Korea"..also they advertise EVERY semester on Dave's ESL Cafe (a well-regarded academic website) so what might that be saying?... |
except their quoted pay is 600 a month lower than that |
I was including the posted 600,000 housing allowance
Did anyone on here actually apply and get an interview with them?[/quote]
I want to know that also. I still can not believe anyone would have all they need for the required minimum 500% to apply. |
It's actually quite easy to reach the 500% minimum. The percentages shown are PER YEAR of employment/education (with limits in the case of education). If one did a two-year classroom-based MA followed by a three- or four-year doctorate with a major taught component, he or she would have 500% based on that alone.
If one had a BA with five years of university experience (assuming it was "invited by the president...", which most non-unigwon positions are) he or she would have the 500% needed. A taught MA (brick and mortar, it seems) and three years in a uni program would do it, as would many other combinations of education and experience. Not terrible conditions, depending on which degree you're bringing to the table when applying, in my opinion.
J7 |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| Tigermoth wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
contact hours / contract hours - almost the same thing . Total work that one has to do in comparison for pay what counts.
In Korea your students are clearly much better but employers are often not and could very well be (FAR) worse.
It goes w/o saying that many Korean university positions (dare I say most )just aren't good jobs to have anymore. Even when you consider the benefit of vacations cause outside of that everything else (pay / working conditions ) at those schools is a negative. |
When I read that a teacher considers "contact hours" to be "almost the same" as "contract hours" it is simply puzzling. Contact hours = number of hours in the classroom. Contract hours = the number of hours' work you are expected to do. Clearly these things are not the same. Not the same at all. |
At least in my opinion it all comes down to the total amount of work and trouble one goes through compared to pay. And nowadays often at Korean universities the sky is the limit when it comes to the (unpaid extra) work and trouble one has to deal with. As I said before except for vacations- at a Korean University almost everything else is a negative. And teachers also really should count in the fact that many universities don't pay severance nor pay national pension when they calculate their salaries. Especially watch out for the big well known schools. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| withnail wrote: |
I've been working at Yonsei for 2 years.
I was the third pick out of 8 finalists for 2 jobs
Me with 17 years straight TESOL experience in the UK, Norway, Japan, France & Hungary, a BA English, MA TESOL, Grad Dip TEFL and a 2nd year PhD candidate in Applied Linguistics..
...only got in because somebody dropped out....
...tough stuff in Seoul.... |
No one ever said Korea was logical. They want a smiley face 25 year old who will work for less and take it like a young man should from an ajossi.
They only hired you by default. No offense, you probably were the best teacher out of all the candidates there. But Seoul unis pull that crap because people flock like lemmings and want to work for them. If waygooks quit doing that, then unis in Seoul would quit being arrogant. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
| Tigermoth wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
contact hours / contract hours - almost the same thing . Total work that one has to do in comparison for pay what counts.
In Korea your students are clearly much better but employers are often not and could very well be (FAR) worse.
It goes w/o saying that many Korean university positions (dare I say most )just aren't good jobs to have anymore. Even when you consider the benefit of vacations cause outside of that everything else (pay / working conditions ) at those schools is a negative. |
When I read that a teacher considers "contact hours" to be "almost the same" as "contract hours" it is simply puzzling. Contact hours = number of hours in the classroom. Contract hours = the number of hours' work you are expected to do. Clearly these things are not the same. Not the same at all. |
At least in my opinion it all comes down to the total amount of work and trouble one goes through compared to pay. And nowadays often at Korean universities the sky is the limit when it comes to the (unpaid extra) work and trouble one has to deal with. As I said before except for vacations- at a Korean University almost everything else is a negative. And teachers also really should count in the fact that many universities don't pay severance nor pay national pension when they calculate their salaries. Especially watch out for the big well known schools. |
Speaking of stupid, there was a uni in my town paying 1.8 million won a month and folks were lining up to try and get it. Ha ha ha ha....you just can't argue with stupid. I'd tell em to get bent. Free time is nice, but not that nice. |
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I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:27 am Post subject: |
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There is, and has been for a long time, an inverse relationship between top universities (i,e., SKY schools) and foreign teacher compensation and benefits at these schools.
They are great schools from which to graduate but among the absolute worst places to work as a foreign university level English teacher.
Just think: the higher ranked the university is, the shittier the contract terms will be. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:31 am Post subject: |
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There are very few good contracts in Korea anywhere anymore. But those highly ranked schools are rough places to work not that they pay much either.
Honestly I think someone would be far better off at one of the smaller schools that doesn't pay much than one of the big famous schools. The extra 300- 400 those big schools pay isn't worth it. |
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swashbuckler
Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 3:48 am Post subject: |
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Here's another uni in Seoul with crap pay (2.8 for 15 hours a week) and they require you to work in their "English Cafe" for an extra two hours and they don't even give the full vacations (it specifically says two months paid vacation as opposed to four) and no tenure and yet they still require at least 2 years UNIVERSITY teaching experience AND an MA degree..I guess this just goes to show how much the MA degree has become devalued in the last 5-10 years?
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/korea/index.cgi?read=60968 |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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If a Korean University doesn' t pay severance then what they really pay is 200.000 won less than what they claim to pay.
Hogwons (are supposed to ) pay severance. No reason that universities ought to be be able to get out of having pay it when it comes calculating salaries.
if an instructor is on private pension plan they get money after they leave but it is only the money that was paid into and nothing much more unless the teacher was at the school for five years or more .
If a University doesn't pay national pension then that (100,000) ought to be deducted from the monthly salary calculation as well.
Last edited by GENO123 on Tue May 06, 2014 7:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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