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Living in Korea (but wanting little to do with Koreans).
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TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:02 pm Post subject:

Mix1 wrote:

[

How do you know a "majority" of Korean viewers who saw it denounced it? I'm sure a few spoke up about it, for one thing because it makes them look xenophobic and immature, and they want the world to think of them as global players, which that show refutes.

.

Quote:

(Aside: The Korean really does not have much to add on this whole thing without repeating what others have already said. It was racist, misogynistic and shitty. Even Koreans in Korea have overwhelmingly called this program out as racist, misogynistic and shitty.

"overwhelmingly" (as used in the context above) usually indicates a majority. But if you have a counter-article which states that only a few did...feel free to post it.

Also one show produced by a non-affiliated group does not "refute" anything. It merely shows the said group's attitude.

Mr. BlackCat

Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:23 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Steelrails wrote:

Just wondering Scorpion, you stated that a large part of your frustration was due to Koreans not being outraged over things like the MBC report and other examples of racism in the media and protesting over such an issue.

Only the Koreans that actually saw or heard about said report... apparently were.

Quote:

Also, the media strike is indirectly responsible for this racist MBC "expose" on interracial relationships in Korea, which can be roughly summarized as: "Dey terk er weemin!" As the regular news staff of MBC has been on strike nearly six months, MBC has been filling its lineup with a lot of crap that are produced by outside production companies. One of the results is that a completely beyond-the-pale program like this one goes through the filters.

(Aside: The Korean really does not have much to add on this whole thing without repeating what others have already said. It was racist, misogynistic and shitty. Even Koreans in Korea have overwhelmingly called this program out as racist, misogynistic and shitty.

The Korean would like to point out one thing though: only 17 people showed up in the protest in front of MBC. Seventeen. Even though the Facebook group denouncing the program has nearly 9,000 members. You want things to change? It's not going to happen with clicking a few things on Facebook.)

http://askakorean.blogspot.kr/2012/06/media-strike-in-korea.html

So first off you have the majority of Korean viewers (who saw the program) "denouncing" it and secondly out of the tens of thousands of expats you have LESS than 20 expats (less than 17 even...since some of those people there were ethnic Koreans) actually doing something about it...other than clicking "like" on FB.

Nobody in this thread yet has stood up and claimed they were there at this protest which very likely means they weren't. If that is the case, I wonder at your gall at demanding KOREANS show up and protest...when YOU can't apparently be bothered yourself. And when more than 99% of the foreigners who saw/heard about the program apparently couldn't be bothered either.

I'm sorry, but I feel like I'm missing something here. What you're quoting as proof that the majority of Koreans denounced that program is just a blog by some random guy (and from what I've read of him in the past, while intelligent, he isn't always completely objective when it comes to criticisms of Korea). But whatever I think of him, it's still just some random guy on the internet making that assertion, right? He links to a naver page of other blogs that say stuff about the show (my Korean isn't great), but there's really no proof that the majority of Koreans denounced that program.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not trying to be a smart ass here. I'm just confused why people are taking the opinion of an internet blogger as fact in this case.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:34 pm Post subject:

Mr. BlackCat wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Steelrails wrote:

Only the Koreans that actually saw or heard about said report... apparently were.

Quote:

Gotta agree with NegroGato here. There isn't much that's solid in that.

I think the better question to ask is- Why do we expect them to be outraged and when have we been outraged on their behalf?

We don't show much interest in their causes, in fact we sneer at Dokdo. We're indifferent to the plight of small business people facing competition from the Big Box stores, we aren't writing concerned letters over health care. Why do we expect them to turn out for us over some news story? Why do we feel that that story should be priority number one for the average Korean?

Unless we are prepared to sign a memorandum of understanding pledging our full-fledged support for Dokdo in return for them agreeing to vigilantly protest racist portrayals in the media, I don't really see where the high-horse comes from. The reverse holds true in this- Until Koreans are prepared to vigilantly protest on our behalf in terms of foreigner issues, then don't expect me to lift a finger from Dokdo. I haven't and I won't, aside from the fact that I don't believe the lives of good young men and women in uniform, being brought home in a casket to their mothers, are worth those stupid rocks.

Chaparrastique

Joined: 01 Jan 2014

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:51 pm Post subject:

le-paul wrote:

Well I didn't turn up because as far as I know, its illegal, to protest in korea and I don't want to get arrested/lose my job/take a beating off the filth.

Exactly. Engaging in public demonstrations is for F-visas only.

edwardcatflap

Joined: 22 Mar 2009

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:14 pm Post subject:

Quote:

We don't show much interest in their causes, in fact we sneer at Dokdo.

Didn't a load of NETS allow themselves to be shipped out there and photographed and filmed doing the horsy dance on the actual rock? I call that going well beyond just showing an interest in Korean causes.

Mr. BlackCat

Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:54 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

I think the better question to ask is- Why do we expect them to be outraged and when have we been outraged on their behalf?

And I'll return the favour and say I agree with this. Well, half of it. I'm not saying Korean shouldn't care about us because we don't care about them (there's some differences between being the majority and being a tiny minority). But we can't expect every Korean to outraged over every stupid thing the media says. I'm not American, but I can't expect every American to personally stand up and protest every dumb and racist thing Fox News puts out there. That'd be a full time job.

However, I want to further state that comparing the two issues of media depictions of foreigners as dangerous, disease carrying rapists to territorial claims of rocks in the ocean is ridiculous. In the former case it's standing up against xenophobia, which can be done in every country in favour of every human. In the latter case you're telling us to choose a side. Basically, you're implying that if I was living in Japan my duty would be to support the Japanese claim to the rocks. So, in essence, you don't seem to really believe that they rightfully belong to Korea (or Japan). You just think where ever you reside should dictate your position, and who ever has more people on their side is "right".

Weigookin74

Joined: 26 Oct 2009

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:14 pm Post subject:

Don't know if I agree with your post fully. But sometimes, you do need alone time for a few days or a weekend spent alone at home shutting out all things Korean from time to time to recharge the batteries. That said, if you want to avoid things Korean entirely, go back to Canada.

3DR

Joined: 24 May 2009

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:31 pm Post subject:

edwardcatflap wrote:

Quote:

We don't show much interest in their causes, in fact we sneer at Dokdo.

Cmon now. You know that the majority of expats love to have a laugh at Dokdo's expense. They also regularly tell them to get over their spats with Japan. SR makes a good point.

Sister Ray

Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Location: Fukuoka

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:59 pm Post subject:

Ha ha, yeah. I must admit, I used to sneer, or more accurately, roll my eyes at the whole Dokdo obsession. The response just seemed so out of proportion to the issue. Happily, since moving to Japan not one single person has ever mentioned Takeshima to me.

Captain Corea

Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:04 am Post subject:

3DR wrote:

edwardcatflap wrote:

Quote:

We don't show much interest in their causes, in fact we sneer at Dokdo.

Cmon now. You know that the majority of expats love to have a laugh at Dokdo's expense. They also regularly tell them to get over their spats with Japan. SR makes a good point.

I'd disagree.

I think the "majority" laugh at the energy put into the issue - not necessarily the territorial dispute itself.

edwardcatflap

Joined: 22 Mar 2009

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:48 am Post subject:

Quote:

Cmon now. You know that the majority of expats love to have a laugh at Dokdo's expense. They also regularly tell them to get over their spats with Japan. SR makes a good point.

Actual physical demonstrations of support for a cause that doesn't directly affect the people taking part are always going to be performed by a small minority.

Mix1

Joined: 08 May 2007

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:26 am Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Mix1 wrote:

Quote:

It's certainly partial refutation that shows the attitude is prevalent to some extent.
Meanwhile, you're grasping at straws. I'll quote Mr. Blackcat as he said it perfectly: "What you're quoting as proof that the majority of Koreans denounced that program is just a blog by some random guy..."
And not just some random guy... a guy who calls himself "The Korean". Rolling Eyes

Sounds like the epitome of balance, doesn't it? Almost guaranteed he's distancing himself from the attitude portrayed in the program, while trying to make Korea look a little bit better. Meanwhile we don't know anything about a "majority" or not, which was my original question.

For someone who prides himself on trying to "prove" everything with links, and demanding everyone else do so too, this is a pretty bad fail. As you would say: " The onus is on YOU to prove your own claim"...so don't try to push it onto others. You're slipping man, slipping.

Maybe I'll start a blog saying an overwhelming MINORITY of Koreans denounced the program, so I can then quote myself on here with it. Will that work for you?

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:09 am Post subject:

Mr. BlackCat wrote:

However, I want to further state that comparing the two issues of media depictions of foreigners as dangerous, disease carrying rapists to territorial claims of rocks in the ocean is ridiculous. In the former case it's standing up against xenophobia, which can be done in every country in favour of every human. In the latter case you're telling us to choose a side. Basically, you're implying that if I was living in Japan my duty would be to support the Japanese claim to the rocks. So, in essence, you don't seem to really believe that they rightfully belong to Korea (or Japan). You just think where ever you reside should dictate your position, and who ever has more people on their side is "right".

Well that's a fair point. I for one, am rather indifferent to the Dokdo situation. I think Korea should just turn the place over to some sort of UN preservation and ecology site. It's the right thing to do and a cynical realist would say its a major public relations coup. If that's too goody-two-shoes, turn it into a casino and offshore money laundering joint that both countries can profit off of and entertain drunken business men at. Regardless, those rocks aren't worth one human life. Someone should just hand a gun to someone, point it at a picture of their kid or a friend in uniform, and ask if their life is worth those miserable isles.

I also don't expect foreigners to side with Korea, because I don't expect Koreans to back us. But I strenuously object to people who resent Koreans for not "backing us" over the MBC thing considering most are unaware of its existence and its really narcissistic to expect their lives to revolve around us and our concerns.

seala70

Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Location: Incheon

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:51 pm Post subject:

I have never heard of anybody having to work as hard as the OP does to tolerate daily living. He literally seems to despise everything other than one or two things. Are those few thing really worth the daily pain he seems to be going through? I could never imagine such a life. The mind reels.

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:07 pm Post subject:

Mr. BlackCat wrote:

[q But whatever I think of him, it's still just some random guy on the internet making that assertion, right? He links to a naver page of other blogs that say stuff about the show (my Korean isn't great), but there's really no proof that the majority of Koreans denounced that program.

.

He links to 10 internet pages of articles/blogs/sites of reports on the MBC program. Yes they are all Korean and (according to him) they are overwhelmingly denouncing the program.

And I never said the majority of KOREANS and neither did he. He simply said "Koreans in Korea have overwhelmingly called out this program out as racist, misogynistic and shitty"
Also as you say "My Korean isn't great" well isn't it possible that in 10 internet pages you missed one or two links which back up what he is saying?

Anyway whether it is a majority of people that saw and spoke out on the program (not a majority of Koreans) or not...that was not my point.

The original claim that sparked this off was Mr. Steelrails' question to Mr. Scorpion. "Just wondering Scorpion, you stated that a large part of your frustration was due to Koreans not being outraged over things like the MBC report...."

Well some apparently are...10 full pages of links worth apparently. And not only that but some of the protestors who actually showed up were also apparently Koreans. THAT was my point.

But like Mr. Steelrails said it's a bit of a reach expecting a majority of Koreans would take any interest in our problems or attempt to solve them given that they have their own problems in life to deal with.

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