|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
cabeza
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
|
 Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:54 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
2)Most ferries do not carry enough lifeboats for everyone as they operate in fresh or coastal waters and it is assumed that rescue vessels can reach them in the event of a normal emergency. Also, its awfully hard to reach and launch them when the ship has a severe list to port or starboard. |
This ferry had lifeboat capacity of over 1100. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Jongno2bucheon
Joined: 11 Mar 2014
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
The 17 year old student, was reported to be the kind of child who never made his parents upset and was the kind of guy who always helped out his friends
The 22 year old crew member was helping passengers even as the water was up to her chest. She was described as a very caring person.
Why do the selfish live and the selfless die? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Jongno2bucheon wrote: |
| Why do the selfish live and the selfless die? |
What do you expect from this country? Absolutely nothing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| rainman3277 wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
5)If the captain really did abandon ship without giving the order to abandon ship, he should be brought before a court. Negligence shouldn't warrant a hanging, and I do believe in mercy and forgiveness, but... |
Law or not, if I am captaining a boat, I leave last. In your opinion, "abandon ship! (every person for themselves)" is just fine. Unbelievable that you are trying to rationalize the captains actions. Hundreds are misssing. Do you have no sense of honor or duty or self sacrifice? |
Did you not read what I wrote? I was basically saying that I wish the guy to be hanged, but I don't believe in capital punishment, even though at times like this I wish I did.
| Quote: |
| Yes, because as any Korean will tell you Western culture is based on the individual, whereas Korean culture is based on the collective, so this is a case of Korean culture at its finest - old Korean men come first, before anyone else. Apparently the only crew member helping kids escape was a female, you know, while the mighty Korean male was jumping ship to save his own ass. Disgusting. |
Yeah, as opposed to the dozens of Korean men risking their lives to save people... 
Does the Italian captain of the Costa Concordia represent Western male culture? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Does the Italian captain of the Costa Concordia represent Western male culture? |
I don't know, but I do know there was a post on Dave's just a few weeks ago where someone said Korean men and Italian men were very similar. It was an eerily prophetic post, in retrospect. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jongno2bucheon
Joined: 11 Mar 2014
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| EZE wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Does the Italian captain of the Costa Concordia represent Western male culture? |
I don't know, but I do know there was a post on Dave's just a few weeks ago where someone said Korean men and Italian men were very similar. It was an eerily prophetic post, in retrospect. |
what's worse than cowardice is kicking someone while they are down
which deserves to die is a matter of opinion |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
| rainman3277 wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
5)If the captain really did abandon ship without giving the order to abandon ship, he should be brought before a court. Negligence shouldn't warrant a hanging, and I do believe in mercy and forgiveness, but... |
Law or not, if I am captaining a boat, I leave last. In your opinion, "abandon ship! (every person for themselves)" is just fine. Unbelievable that you are trying to rationalize the captains actions. Hundreds are misssing. Do you have no sense of honor or duty or self sacrifice? |
Did you not read what I wrote? I was basically saying that I wish the guy to be hanged, but I don't believe in capital punishment, even though at times like this I wish I did.
| Quote: |
| Yes, because as any Korean will tell you Western culture is based on the individual, whereas Korean culture is based on the collective, so this is a case of Korean culture at its finest - old Korean men come first, before anyone else. Apparently the only crew member helping kids escape was a female, you know, while the mighty Korean male was jumping ship to save his own ass. Disgusting. |
Yeah, as opposed to the dozens of Korean men risking their lives to save people...
Does the Italian captain of the Costa Concordia represent Western male culture? |
Steelrails: are you completely unwilling to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, Korean cultural norms might have played a role in this tragedy? Elders come first (elders are first off the boat), children listen to their elders (children stay in their seats on a sinking ship), bali bali (ship takes dangerous course to make up for lost time). Yeah, haters gonna hate, and it's often unjustified, but I can totally see where this may be due to Korean culture, at least in part. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Jongno2bucheon wrote: |
| which deserves to die is a matter of opinion |
In the opinion of the adults, the kids deserved to die. "Stay put while we bail!" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| northway wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| rainman3277 wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
5)If the captain really did abandon ship without giving the order to abandon ship, he should be brought before a court. Negligence shouldn't warrant a hanging, and I do believe in mercy and forgiveness, but... |
Law or not, if I am captaining a boat, I leave last. In your opinion, "abandon ship! (every person for themselves)" is just fine. Unbelievable that you are trying to rationalize the captains actions. Hundreds are misssing. Do you have no sense of honor or duty or self sacrifice? |
Did you not read what I wrote? I was basically saying that I wish the guy to be hanged, but I don't believe in capital punishment, even though at times like this I wish I did.
| Quote: |
| Yes, because as any Korean will tell you Western culture is based on the individual, whereas Korean culture is based on the collective, so this is a case of Korean culture at its finest - old Korean men come first, before anyone else. Apparently the only crew member helping kids escape was a female, you know, while the mighty Korean male was jumping ship to save his own ass. Disgusting. |
Yeah, as opposed to the dozens of Korean men risking their lives to save people...
Does the Italian captain of the Costa Concordia represent Western male culture? |
Steelrails: are you completely unwilling to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, Korean cultural norms might have played a role in this tragedy? Elders come first (elders are first off the boat), children listen to their elders (children stay in their seats on a sinking ship), bali bali (ship takes dangerous course to make up for lost time). Yeah, haters gonna hate, and it's often unjustified, but I can totally see where this may be due to Korean culture, at least in part. |
Fine, then Western culture was to blame for the Costa Concordia.
OR the fact that the students were mostly quartered a deck below individual passengers, that screaming "run for your lives" might have created just as bad a situation, especially considering water temperatures, and that ships regularly take alternate routes to take up time. The point is that in any disaster here, people will always find a way to craft what happened into some narrative about culture, but when a disaster happens back home, its the result of bad individuals. Koreans go left, its because of their culture. Koreans go right, its because of their culture. Koreans go straight, its because of their culture. Koreans make a U-Turn, its because of their culture.
And what about Koreans who acted heroically during the situation? Is that because of their culture? If Koreans act poorly and that is because of their culture, then it must follow that Koreans who acted bravely was also due to their culture. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
metalhead
Joined: 18 May 2010
Location: Toilet
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Maybe if Koreans would stop blathering on about their culture the way they do and blame their culture for things then perhaps others would stop doing it too. Do you ever even talk to Koreans instead of posting essays on here? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
Fine, then Western culture was to blame for the Costa Concordia.
OR the fact that the students were mostly quartered a deck below individual passengers, that screaming "run for your lives" might have created just as bad a situation, especially considering water temperatures, and that ships regularly take alternate routes to take up time. The point is that in any disaster here, people will always find a way to craft what happened into some narrative about culture, but when a disaster happens back home, its the result of bad individuals. Koreans go left, its because of their culture. Koreans go right, its because of their culture. Koreans go straight, its because of their culture. Koreans make a U-Turn, its because of their culture.
And what about Koreans who acted heroically during the situation? Is that because of their culture? If Koreans act poorly and that is because of their culture, then it must follow that Koreans who acted bravely was also due to their culture. |
Very few individuals died during Costa Concordia as compared to this disaster, so that's a slippery slope you find yourself on. I agree with you more often than not when it comes to this kind of stuff, but when even my Korean friends were commenting on how Korean this outcome appears to be, I'm not sure that you can strictly assign this to the standard Dave's blather. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hokie21
Joined: 01 Mar 2011
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
To piggyback on my original post......so I was totally and completely right.
Thought so. Inexcusable. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wanderkind
Joined: 01 Jan 2012
Location: Japan
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2988111&cloc=joongangdaily|home|newslist1
| Quote: |
The 60-year-old captain, Lee Jun-seok, was among the first 50 people rescued by Coast Guard lifeboats, according to police. One witness said he didn’t even get wet in the tragic accident.
“I was rescued in one of the first groups, but there were already about seven people in the patrol ship of the Coast Guard,” a survivor told the JoongAng Ilbo on the condition of anonymity. “The captain was one of them, I knew that because I asked the Coast Guard. His clothes were not wet at all.” |
| Quote: |
| The Coast Guard’s Jeju branch said it ordered the crew to prepare for evacuation at around 9 a.m., right after the captain sent the distress call at 8:58 a.m. But they did not take any evacuation measures, the Coast Guard said. |
| Quote: |
Under the Seafarers Act, the heaviest punishment the captain could receive for abandoning his ship and its passengers is a five-year jail term, prosecutors said.
The law says, “The captain should not leave a ship from when cargo is loaded or passengers are boarding and until they are all unloaded or leave.” In emergencies, the law says, “The captain should take all necessary measures to rescue people.” |
Honestly, I am not sure hanging would be out of order. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rainman3277
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| rainman3277 wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
5)If the captain really did abandon ship without giving the order to abandon ship, he should be brought before a court. Negligence shouldn't warrant a hanging, and I do believe in mercy and forgiveness, but... |
Law or not, if I am captaining a boat, I leave last. In your opinion, "abandon ship! (every person for themselves)" is just fine. Unbelievable that you are trying to rationalize the captains actions. Hundreds are misssing. Do you have no sense of honor or duty or self sacrifice? |
Did you not read what I wrote? I was basically saying that I wish the guy to be hanged, but I don't believe in capital punishment, even though at times like this I wish I did.
| Quote: |
| Yes, because as any Korean will tell you Western culture is based on the individual, whereas Korean culture is based on the collective, so this is a case of Korean culture at its finest - old Korean men come first, before anyone else. Apparently the only crew member helping kids escape was a female, you know, while the mighty Korean male was jumping ship to save his own ass. Disgusting. |
Yeah, as opposed to the dozens of Korean men risking their lives to save people...
Does the Italian captain of the Costa Concordia represent Western male culture? |
Steelrails: are you completely unwilling to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, Korean cultural norms might have played a role in this tragedy? Elders come first (elders are first off the boat), children listen to their elders (children stay in their seats on a sinking ship), bali bali (ship takes dangerous course to make up for lost time). Yeah, haters gonna hate, and it's often unjustified, but I can totally see where this may be due to Korean culture, at least in part. |
Fine, then Western culture was to blame for the Costa Concordia.
OR the fact that the students were mostly quartered a deck below individual passengers, that screaming "run for your lives" might have created just as bad a situation, especially considering water temperatures, and that ships regularly take alternate routes to take up time. The point is that in any disaster here, people will always find a way to craft what happened into some narrative about culture, but when a disaster happens back home, its the result of bad individuals. Koreans go left, its because of their culture. Koreans go right, its because of their culture. Koreans go straight, its because of their culture. Koreans make a U-Turn, its because of their culture.
And what about Koreans who acted heroically during the situation? Is that because of their culture? If Koreans act poorly and that is because of their culture, then it must follow that Koreans who acted bravely was also due to their culture. |
Sorry, SR, I guess I misunderstood you because neglect didn't even enter into my mind. With over a hundred people missing, no way he didn't know there were people still onboard.
Culture? Come on guys. I think that is taking culture blame a bit too far. In a life an death situation I'd say culture goes out the window. I mean, even a situation as trivial as on the subway where I often see elderly standing while young pretend to be sleeping. Selfishness, cowardice, bravery. Self serving situations like these reveal individual charcter of the person.
And the captain is a cowarly piece of S$%^ who should be waterboarded then drown. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
