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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
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 Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Please guys, don't let SR derail this thread too. This subject is more important. Just ignore him if you have to. Start another thread to argue endlessly with him. Let's keep this thread concise and open about the situation at hand. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| Please guys, don't let SR derail this thread too. This subject is more important. Just ignore him if you have to. Start another thread to argue endlessly with him. Let's keep this thread concise and open about the situation at hand. |
That's a solid reminder. Thanks.
One thing that I've yet to see in ANY news outlets - did they blood test the captain? I saw they questioned him, but you'd think that a blood test would be standard after something like this. |
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| Please guys, don't let SR derail this thread too. This subject is more important. Just ignore him if you have to. Start another thread to argue endlessly with him. Let's keep this thread concise and open about the situation at hand. |
I agree with the principle that this thread is becoming derailed (though not pointing fingers). It would be helpful considering the situation, if we could stay on topic for once until the situation is clearer. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| But they don't blame American culture or Western culture. They blame gun culture or a culture of selfishness. I think its fair to say the Captain may represent a culture of selfishness within Korea, just as some act in America may represent a culture of selfishness within America, but that they don't represent the culture of Korea or America. |
Funny, I can't count the number of times Koreans have asked me about American culture in relationship to guns and shootings. |
And I don't think gun nuts represent American culture. They may be a part of the great mosaic that is America. And gun crimes may be part of the tragedies we face, but they do not represent American culture. What about the 65% of Americans that don't own guns. Do they represent American culture? |
Saying that something might result from cultural norms, whether it be gun crimes or vehicular negligence, isn't the same as saying its representative of the culture. I'm not saying this is representative of Korean culture, but it appears to be a tragedy of errors that could be utterly predictable to anyone with a familiarity with Korean culture (perhaps the reason why, as I've said, I've spoken with a number of Koreans who pointed to Korean culture themselves). |
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wanderkind
Joined: 01 Jan 2012
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Savant wrote: |
| What I don't get it is that if the ship was still continuing to tilt over; surely, the thoughts of most people would be too try to escape as quickly as possible rather than remaining still. |
(Edit: This is what I've gathered from reports)
Passengers were advised to stay put, and the captain and crew tried to right/stabilize the ship as it was listing. According to helmsman (if I recall correctly), when ship reached a 5° list, which was described as the 'critical point' at which correction is no longer possible, the first mate advised the captain to order evacuation. The captain then directed them to try once more to stabilize the ship, which also failed. The evacuation was ordered at that point, but it's unknown if it was ever broadcast to the passengers.
You've probably seen pictures of the crew making their getaway. The ship already looks like it's on at least a 25° or 30° angle. Imagine if your office was suddenly on a 30 degree angle, and you needed to get to the high end. Think of all the objects shifting and tumbling.
The greater the list, the more shifting of cargo would occur, which would exacerbate the list and cause more cargo to shift, etc. etc. The rate of capsize would have accelerated as it progressed. Most likely at the point when everyone realized that regardless of the instructions they needed to try to escape, the angle of the ship would have made it difficult and then very quickly impossible to escape.
The thing I genuinely don't understand is why it turned completely upside-down. Just momentum?
Maybe related, maybe unrelated: apparently this style of ship is somewhat prone to trouble. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RORO#Seaworthiness
(Edit 2:
2 examples of other ships of similar design sinking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Estonia#Sinking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Herald_of_Free_Enterprise#Sinking) |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| Please guys, don't let SR derail this thread too. This subject is more important. Just ignore him if you have to. Start another thread to argue endlessly with him. Let's keep this thread concise and open about the situation at hand. |
So someone is free to say "this happened because of Korean culture", but someone who disagrees is "derailing"? Aren't they derailing from just reporting events and news? Why don't you admonish them? |
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Lucas
Joined: 11 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| So someone is free to say "this happened because of Korean culture", but someone who disagrees is "derailing"? Aren't they derailing from just reporting events and news? Why don't you admonish them? |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz-PtEJEaqY
This news clip, talks about Korean 'culture' and how it affects decision making during an emergency. |
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mayorgc
Joined: 19 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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SR
By blindly defending all aspects of Korean culture or any culture for that matter, you are indirectly endorsing the continuation of injustice and corruption.
You are pretty much spitting on Park Ji Young's grave as far as I am concerned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampoong_Department_Store_collapse
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On the morning of June 29, the number of cracks in the area increased dramatically, prompting managers to close the top floor and shut the air conditioning off. The store management failed to shut the building down or issue formal evacuation orders, as the number of customers in the building was unusually high, and they did not want to lose the day's revenue. However, the executives themselves left the premises as a precaution. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daegu_subway_fire
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| Transcripts show Choi Sang-yeol made three announcements advising passengers in train 1080 to remain seated while he attempted to reach superiors. Finally, he was advised "Quickly, run somewhere else. Go up... kill the engine and go." Choi then opened the doors and fled, but in doing so he removed the master key, shutting down the onboard batteries which powered the train doors ��� effectively sealing passengers inside. Later investigation showed 79 passengers remained trapped inside train 1080 and died there. |
This is not an attack on Korea or it's people. |
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nuthatch
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
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wanderkind
Joined: 01 Jan 2012
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| mayorgc wrote: |
SR, your attitude is what's wrong with the world.
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| mayorgc wrote: |
SR
You are pretty much spitting on Park Ji Young's grave as far as I am concerned. |
Let's not get carried away...
| mayorgc wrote: |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampoong_Department_Store_collapse
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On the morning of June 29, the number of cracks in the area increased dramatically, prompting managers to close the top floor and shut the air conditioning off. The store management failed to shut the building down or issue formal evacuation orders, as the number of customers in the building was unusually high, and they did not want to lose the day's revenue. However, the executives themselves left the premises as a precaution. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daegu_subway_fire
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| Transcripts show Choi Sang-yeol made three announcements advising passengers in train 1080 to remain seated while he attempted to reach superiors. Finally, he was advised "Quickly, run somewhere else. Go up... kill the engine and go." Choi then opened the doors and fled, but in doing so he removed the master key, shutting down the onboard batteries which powered the train doors, effectively sealing passengers inside. Later investigation showed 79 passengers remained trapped inside train 1080 and died there. |
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Well pointed out.
| nuthatch wrote: |
| http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/18/world/asia/south-korean-ferry-accident.html?hp&_r=0 |
Every new detail illuminates further just how horrific this event is. In the position of a teacher, and the victims being students, this has thoroughly pierced the desensitization to tragedy I've accrued from years of current events bombardment on the internet. |
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skinsk05
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Location: Jeonju
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:49 pm Post subject: Foreigners sympathizing with the Sewol ferry disaster |
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OK, so here is a fundraising sight for foreigneres in Korea to show our solidarity with the victims of the ferry disaster. The funds raised will go towards a scholarship for a student from the Ansan high school that was affected, and will be given in the name of Park Jiyoung, the young crew member who died after helping students. Since most of us here are teachers, we can sympathize with the teachers and students who died, and since all of us are human, we can hopefully sympathize with the family and loved ones. This fund was set up to show that the foreign community does really care. Your W10,000 or $10 contribution (or more, if you are generous) will make a difference and will help leave a legacy for so many young people who didn't have that chance. . .
http://www.crowdrise.com/foreignersinsympathywithsewoldisasterscholarship/fundraiser/skinsk |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| guavashake wrote: |
The captain of the Korean government vessel that aided the removal of the captain and crew is also at fault.
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Why would the people on the rescue vessel be at fault? Do you really expect them to refuse a guy trying to get off a sinking boat?
However, I do hope that they looked at the escaping captain, and crew, at disgust and perhaps someone 'accidentally' spilled their coffee on the captain. No way the crew should be among the first group to be rescued. They should have been on there helping people until neck deep in water. |
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uklathemock
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:57 am Post subject: |
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The twentysomething girl did just that. She was probably lowest on the totem pole, but was one of the only crew members with a sense of responsibility. Maybe they should just put Korean women in charge of planes, trains, and ships.  |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| uklathemock wrote: |
| The twentysomething girl did just that. She was probably lowest on the totem pole, but was one of the only crew members with a sense of responsibility. Maybe they should just put Korean women in charge of planes, trains, and ships. |
Don't stomp on Korean males too much. Apparently, one of the reasons, at the moment, there are way more female students that have been saved was because of chivalrous male students... unlike the captain. |
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Vianca
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Location: a Korean woman in Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:47 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Vianca on Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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