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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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The behaviors I listed are all integral parts of the ways Korean approach the world in ways they are not in other parts of the world. For example cramming--where else in the world is school so at the center of things?
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So students don't cram back home? Everyone crams.
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| ronyism and nepotism--jeong--are a part of Korean culture. Tammany Hall is a long time ago and politics is a different game. |
So when people Occupy Wall Street, take up arms at the Bundy Ranch, hear about Jack Abramoff, William Jefferson, Jim Tafficant, see politicians resign left and right because of corruption and scandal, this is all just "Tammany Hall"???
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| The poor government response is a symptom of relying on testing (and cronyism) to choose those running the bureaucracy. They've done nothing in their lives but study for tests, and are sorely lacking in the skills needed to actually get things done. |
Right, but how is that a Korean phenomenon? There were similar accusations regarding Michael Brown and FEMA post-Hurricane Katrina. Google the phrase "crony capitalism" and its not a bunch of Korean news results.
Cronyism in Korea is responsible. Corruption is responsible. That doesn't mean that Cronyism and Corruption are Korean cultural phenomenon. To paraphrase Abe Lincoln, what you're doing is taking a horse chestnut and turning it into a chestnut horse. The word order is very important here. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
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The behaviors I listed are all integral parts of the ways Korean approach the world in ways they are not in other parts of the world. For example cramming--where else in the world is school so at the center of things?
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So students don't cram back home? Everyone crams.
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| ronyism and nepotism--jeong--are a part of Korean culture. Tammany Hall is a long time ago and politics is a different game. |
So when people Occupy Wall Street, take up arms at the Bundy Ranch, hear about Jack Abramoff, William Jefferson, Jim Tafficant, see politicians resign left and right because of corruption and scandal, this is all just "Tammany Hall"???
| Quote: |
| The poor government response is a symptom of relying on testing (and cronyism) to choose those running the bureaucracy. They've done nothing in their lives but study for tests, and are sorely lacking in the skills needed to actually get things done. |
Right, but how is that a Korean phenomenon? There were similar accusations regarding Michael Brown and FEMA post-Hurricane Katrina. Google the phrase "crony capitalism" and its not a bunch of Korean news results.
Cronyism in Korea is responsible. Corruption is responsible. That doesn't mean that Cronyism and Corruption are Korean cultural phenomenon. To paraphrase Abe Lincoln, what you're doing is taking a horse chestnut and turning it into a chestnut horse. The word order is very important here. |
You're still playing word games. Games that leave you tied up in knots.
Michael Brown didn't take a test to get his position.
SK is as much command economy as market, so crony capitalism doesn't apply.
Cronyism and corruption are Korean cultural phenomenon because they figure so heavily into everyday life.
And you're back to twisting my words. Stop lying about what I posted, little g. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| Tammany Hall is a long time ago and politics is a different game. |
Yes, I know. That's why I wrote...
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| But it's devatable to what extent that's a question of culture, or a question of economic development-phases(google Tammany Hall to see cronyism having a field day in a non-Asian culture). |
I don't really consider Tammany Hall to be representative of American culture, so much as representative of a particular phase of economic-development, at a particular time in history.
Maybe you've seen this Monty Python sketch. According to sources I've read other than Python, it actually wasn't unheard of in the UK for local government decisions to be announced at Masonic meetings before being announced officially.
And as recently as 2002...
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Secret networks of Freemasons have been used by organised crime gangs to corrupt the criminal justice system, according to a bombshell Metropolitan Police report leaked to The Independent.
Operation Tiberius, written in 2002, found underworld syndicates used their contacts in the controversial brotherhood to “recruit corrupted officers” inside Scotland Yard, and concluded it was one of “the most difficult aspects of organised crime corruption to proof against”.
The report – marked “Secret” – found serving officers in East Ham east London who were members of the Freemasons attempted to find out which detectives were suspected of links to organised crime from other police sources who were also members of the society.
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That's from The Independent, not Prison Planet. Arguably, this sort of thing(minus the masonic angle) is more prevalent in Korea than in the UK, where ir probably survives more as a relic of a bygone era. The point is, it probably relates more to socioeconomic development than it does simply to cultural factors considered in isolation. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:31 am Post subject: |
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Trying to turn this into a "Korean culture caused this" online debate is lower than anything I have seen on this board over the years.
Making light of this or making jokes is just as low and shows a complete lack of human empathy.
Those of you doing this should be ashamed. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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| Tammany Hall is a long time ago and politics is a different game. |
Yes, I know. That's why I wrote...
| Quote: |
| But it's devatable to what extent that's a question of culture, or a question of economic development-phases(google Tammany Hall to see cronyism having a field day in a non-Asian culture). |
I don't really consider Tammany Hall to be representative of American culture, so much as representative of a particular phase of economic-development, at a particular time in history.
Maybe you've seen this Monty Python sketch. According to sources I've read other than Python, it actually wasn't unheard of in the UK for local government decisions to be announced at Masonic meetings before being announced officially.
And as recently as 2002...
| Quote: |
Secret networks of Freemasons have been used by organised crime gangs to corrupt the criminal justice system, according to a bombshell Metropolitan Police report leaked to The Independent.
Operation Tiberius, written in 2002, found underworld syndicates used their contacts in the controversial brotherhood to “recruit corrupted officers” inside Scotland Yard, and concluded it was one of “the most difficult aspects of organised crime corruption to proof against”.
The report – marked “Secret” – found serving officers in East Ham east London who were members of the Freemasons attempted to find out which detectives were suspected of links to organised crime from other police sources who were also members of the society.
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That's from The Independent, not Prison Planet. Arguably, this sort of thing(minus the masonic angle) is more prevalent in Korea than in the UK, where ir probably survives more as a relic of a bygone era. The point is, it probably relates more to socioeconomic development than it does simply to cultural factors considered in isolation. |
"Simply considered in isolation" is a straw man. I certainly didn't post that and don't recall anyone else doing so.
And in these comparisons you insist on making, you're overlooking the collectivist nature of Korean society and how that makes culture more important and more important. |
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