Korean Job Discussion Forums

[3DR]

I'm curious. Is it possible for any disaster here to just be blamed on human error, negligence (like it is in our respective countries 90% of the time) instead of culture?

If not, I would like to hear good reasons why.

http://sweetpicklesandcorn.wordpress.com/2014/04/25/the-wests-confucian-confusion-how-more-confucianism-might-have-saved-the-sewol/

[radish kimchi]

In this case it wasn't a natural disaster.

Nature vs. Nurture

This is why we are reflecting on a "cultural" disaster. People were instructed to do something and they obeyed. A more natural response would have been to flee or run.

Stick a dog on a sinking ship without its owner, see what happens. Look at a flock of birds in the sky and ask yourself why they are going south for the winter. Why didn't these kids?

[chellovek]

As a point of interest, if you were on the ship and you realized it was in trouble, what would you have done in that situation as a passenger?

As someone mentioned in another thread, is it not then time to head for the emergency muster points? They're usually clearly sign-posted "Gather here in case of emergency"- and they're usually close to places where you can quickly get off the boat- not in cabins or other enclosed spaces far from the open deck.

Edit-

Well I guess I should answer my own question, I'd like to think I'd have gone to a said muster point, although I guess if there was panic, who knows?

[radish kimchi]

[chellovek]

[guavashake]

It is has more to do with confusion culture than confucian culture.

People are confused. People follow authority.

People followed authority to Vietnam.

People followed authority to Iraq.

People followed authority to Afghanistan.

People follow authority and line up for vaccinations.

etc.

There is an abundance of authority in various cultures telling people to do things, and in the process of doing it become dead victims.

There are differences in culture. If you go to another country you change the flavor of confusion.

Its like ice cream. It comes in different flavors, but its still ice cream.

[Steelrails]

[radish kimchi]

[coralreefer_1]

The Monday morning quarterbacking done by so many over this issue is getting rather sickening.

1. If you were not born and raised in a Confucian culture..then you dont know a darn thing about it. Attempting to say you do is the equivalent of someone saying that they are a great fighter, not because they train, but merely because the watch the UFC. Being a bystander here in Korea or some other Confucian society, or otherwise reading this or that about it gives you no farther insight than a spectator. Ironic that a bunch of teachers will readily admit no amount of training is the same as the experience of leading an English class, yet feel the exact opposite regarding Korean culture and its values (no experience IN it, only experience NEXT to it)

2. I love all these people talking about what "they" would have done. They use the argument that it is common sense. Yet isn't it also common sense to not text while driving, and yet so many WORLDWIDE die from it anyway? Isn't it common sense that smoking kills..yet so many WORLDWIDE do it? They talk about "following orders", as if that has something to do with those victims being "Korean"..or otherwise from what they consider and antiquated and simply stupid "Confucian" culture.

Maybe some day these people will be on an airplane that has to make an emergency landing,and when the captain comes on and tells them to fasten their safety belt...they do so (because they followed orders) to find out later after the plane makes a hard landing and is in flames they then find themselves inhaling smoke and coughing a lung up because they cant get their safety belt unfastened. If they manage to survive, I hope they will return here on Dave's and talk about how stupid they were for "following orders"..and then we can all laugh at them for being so "Confucian"

3. I know some of you are attempting to have (why here I cannot fathom) a decent discussion about the accident. Yet basically some are blaming the victims ( they are stupid because the didnt get to "muster points"). Yes...maybe they should have...and of course, the captain and crew made seriously bad decisions that led to a grave loss of life, but stop blaming the victims. Until you are in that situation, you have no idea how you will act. You sound like the dork who talks about "If I see a guy hitting a woman, I'm gonna be a hero and beat him down" Get over yourself.

For the TL;DR people - Stop being an douche, you dont know anything if you weren't there.

[goat]

[andrewchon]

[coralreefer_1]

[chellovek]

[liveinkorea316]

As someone mentioned earlier, your natural instinct would be to head for higher ground. You would have to fight it to stay beliw deck. 32 people also died on the Costa Concordia in 2012 because they were also told to continue having their dinner, delaying evacuation by 30mins.

In this place the blame should lie more squarely with the teachers and crew, not the kids. The teachers kept them down there.

Korean culture also comes into play with the lax attention to safety enforcement by authorities on cargo and that ship maintenance. Korea is a low cost place precisely because so many safety regulations from other OECD countries are simply not enforced here. Such accidents are bound to keep happening.

[liveinkorea316]

President Park Geun Hye is arresting the entire crew now and called them murders in an attempt to deflect blame from the scandal that the ship was impossibly overloaded and a ticking timebomb. It is her government inspections that failed those kids and she shares responsibility.

She will have none of it. No apology. Iron lady. Much to obsessed with blaming others and consolidating her power. Her reign so far has been a succession of scandals of key administration men who have been resigning like a revolving door. She has not been governing the country as much as playing politics and making prepared puffy speeches since she got in.