|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
|
 Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:28 am Post subject: |
 |
|
Every country goes through things like this to change rules, and laws. Korea just came out of the 3rd-world like 20 years ago, and has changed so fast. Yet you guys expect even faster change? Be a little more realistic here. Things you see in Korea now, like no-seat belts, corruption, cronyism, drunk-driving, was common 'back home'...
Some quote in a fascinating article i read today...
Yet the loss of the Sewol may result, along with retribution against all of those responsible, in higher standards of seamanship and improvements in ship design. Future lives will be saved. The Seoul government will never again risk being exposed to the humiliation of its failure to protect its own young people.
Of course things will change. The fear of being embarrassed is a huge factor and will change on-board safety. This has made the international news and Koreans are embarrassed by this. Like how they manage to pull-off big international events, because of the fear of being embarrassed. The Sampoong building collapse, and bridge collapse in the 90's upped the quality of corporate buildings and public bridges. The companies being investigated now will essentially be bankrupted. But new ones, that meet stricter safety requirements will pop-up. And hopefully, the next generational sea-faring tragedy won't be so tragic.
Problem is, big internationally embarrassing tragedies will have to happen in other industries for that industry to clean up too. And huge things happen so rarely. I'd figure it would have to take a massive nationwide earthquake to really change attitudes towards safety. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| young_clinton wrote: |
Yeah the hell with South Korea. All they have is shipyards that put out sophisticated natural gas container ships and Hyundai and Kia and Samsung. If they would have taken a different course when they were so impoverished in the 50's and 60's maybe things would be different for them now. North Korea had a higher per capital GDP in the 50's and 60's and look where they are at now, a 'workers paradise'. Maybe if America hadn't been around right?
How many of the above things listed by you actually pertain to you? For instance you might look at the General Insensitivity one. But what the hell, the massive tragedy is just another good opportunity for you to promote your many nefarious agendas here on Dave's. |
Actually, it deeply saddens me that the likely possibility of the disaster is that nothing will change (the other part of your post read like a nervous, childs rambling so I couldn't really make any sense of it - what is your point?)
But in terms of learning anything from events, your country is a prime example of what happens when people believe they have a historical right which should come before the safety, or needs of the community on the whole.
You still haven't been able to move forward from the days of gun toting yee haws, who believe its your constitutional right to gun down down your neighbors - and look what happens every year - thousands and thousands killed or injured. An internet search shows '10,000 kids' alone. That's on a par to the ferry tragedy. But do you learn?
You also seem to have learned nothing from your history in terms of race relations, and still have a disgusting record of segregation and oppression (amongst other things).
And the joke is - you think you should be the role model for the world, and I am a fool because I don't believe your indoctrinated ideal. You have proven what happens when people refuse to move forward.
As far as (South korea) being a workers paradise, I think you seem to be a little ignorant on the issues related to that, so it would be a waste of time being drawn into it with you (however, if youre interested in learning anything, you could start by talking to Korean women about equality in the workplace or foreign factory workers as an example). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| jvalmer wrote: |
Every country goes through things like this to change rules, and laws. Korea just came out of the 3rd-world like 20 years ago, and has changed so fast. Yet you guys expect even faster change? Be a little more realistic here. Things you see in Korea now, like no-seat belts, corruption, cronyism, drunk-driving, was common 'back home'...
Some quote in a fascinating article i read today...
Yet the loss of the Sewol may result, along with retribution against all of those responsible, in higher standards of seamanship and improvements in ship design. Future lives will be saved. The Seoul government will never again risk being exposed to the humiliation of its failure to protect its own young people.
Of course things will change. The fear of being embarrassed is a huge factor and will change on-board safety. This has made the international news and Koreans are embarrassed by this. Like how they manage to pull-off big international events, because of the fear of being embarrassed. The Sampoong building collapse, and bridge collapse in the 90's upped the quality of corporate buildings and public bridges. The companies being investigated now will essentially be bankrupted. But new ones, that meet stricter safety requirements will pop-up. And hopefully, the next generational sea-faring tragedy won't be so tragic.
Problem is, big internationally embarrassing tragedies will have to happen in other industries for that industry to clean up too. And huge things happen so rarely. I'd figure it would have to take a massive nationwide earthquake to really change attitudes towards safety. |
What a piss-poor excuse for an apology. You better be ready for some radical re-education at the next apologistas' confab. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
Koreans are really in a state of shock over this. I hope there is some type of good news that help them get over it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
I thought the other threads on this were bad but this blows the bottom out of the barrel and goes lower than imaginable.
Offer sympathies and show empathy. Hope for a proper investigation and for conclusive changes to avoid other such disasters.
Send your sympathies to the school that was gutted by this. Show support in a way that is available to you.
These are all positive and humane things to do.
the PM of Korea has resigned over the tragedy, the crew has been detained. Things are moving in the right direction.
Engage in yet another round of K-bashing online to satisfy your little agendas is lower than I have ever seen on here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jodami
Joined: 08 Feb 2013
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
The thing Koreans are most upset about, is the fact Korea looks bad to an international audience. This is in fact their very worst nightmare. Sad but true.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| atwood wrote: |
Koreans are really in a state of shock over this. I hope there is some type of good news that help them get over it. |
And yet this "state of shocK' hasn't prevented them from contining to run red lights, or compelled them to put their infant children in safety seats. Getting over this tragedy should be the least of their concerns. Learning from it, and changing their behavior, is what really matters. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Scorpion wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
Koreans are really in a state of shock over this. I hope there is some type of good news that help them get over it. |
And yet this "state of shocK' hasn't prevented them from contining to run red lights, or compelled them to put their infant children in safety seats. Getting over this tragedy should be the least of their concerns. Learning from it, and changing their behavior, is what really matters. |
Until there's a test, there's nothing to study for and learn.
"And that's the way it is." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| This disaster puts the tank accident that killed those two school girls ten years ago in perspective. And the American beef insanity, where they insisted it endangered the lives of Korean children. And all the hype around the supposed threat to Korean children posed by foreign English teachers. This terrible disaster underlines the fact that, by far, the greatest threat to Korean children comes from Koreans themselves. They need to take a good strong look at themselves in the mirror and resolve to make child safety a priority. And to stop pointing their fingers at other groups who pose no threat to them whatsoever. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
I thought the other threads on this were bad but this blows the bottom out of the barrel and goes lower than imaginable.
Offer sympathies and show empathy. Hope for a proper investigation and for conclusive changes to avoid other such disasters.
Send your sympathies to the school that was gutted by this. Show support in a way that is available to you.
These are all positive and humane things to do.
the PM of Korea has resigned over the tragedy, the crew has been detained. Things are moving in the right direction.
Engage in yet another round of K-bashing online to satisfy your little agendas is lower than I have ever seen on here. |
Everything isnt all that black and white.
Speaking for myself, I really, sincerely hope something positive comes from this however, I am angered that it probably wont (with regard to more people suffering in the future unnecessarily).
And I am angered that any person had to suffer this. I am also angered that the reason for so many problems in this country (including this disaster) could be avoided if people accepted the true state of things.
I dont stand alone on this opinion and Koreans themselves that I have spoken to have mentioned most of the things I listed as being causes for the disaster. The government themselves have recognized the disaster as having been linked to human/culturally as have Koreans who have reported on the news and investigators - although it is being overshadowed by blame.
That doesn't however mean that I don't wish this hadn't happened and am deeply saddened by it.
I generally like Korean people. However, when something like this happens, it is very difficult to not be objective and look at the reasons for its cause and be, well, a little disappointed.
Send your sympathies to the school that was gutted by this. Show support in a way that is available to you.
2 days ago I wrote a note and allowed a national news station to film me while I placed it on a line in public.
A week ago I lit a candle in a public vigil.
Ive been wearing a yellow ribbon for the last 4 days.
Hope for a proper investigation and for conclusive changes to avoid other such disasters.
Unfortunately, so far a lot more energy seems to be being spent on finger pointing and apportioning blame. It is a real possibility that finally, a person will take the blame rather than a system/physical flaw.
the PM of Korea has resigned over the tragedy, the crew has been detained. Things are moving in the right direction.
However, it wasn't the President. As the majority of outcomes so far, it does appear to be a case of 'throwing something to the people' in an attempt to appease them. This seems to have been a symbolic move.
yet another round of K-bashing online to satisfy your little agendas
'Korea bashing' is a buzz word which very loosely describes an action. Being frank about factors that caused the deaths of hundreds of children when they are in fairness, human traits which could easily be addressed but reinforcing them can not lead to a positive outcome.
There is a time and a place to address and discuss things. In this case, an English teachers internet forum is more appropriate place to express anger at this incident than a newspaper or preaching to children for example.
So just to re-iterate. I am angered and saddened by this disaster. I am more angered that it is doubtful that anything positive will come from this and more people will suffer.
I also believe that it is a real shame for the Korean people, that things like this happen (but not just here - anywhere) because people refuse to let go of traits that fundamentally give them power and personal gain.
Until people realize this, they will not truly move forward and will destroy themselves (on many levels).
I for one, do not want to see this happen. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
The PM of Korea has resigned over the tragedy, the crew has been detained. Things are moving in the right direction.
Engage in yet another round of K-bashing online to satisfy your little agendas is lower than I have ever seen on here. |
Those are short-term developments. The prime minister resigning and the crew being arrested will not in itself correct the long-term problem. What we are calling for is fundamental reforms and the implementation of standards that will be enforced. We don't want an event like this to ever happen again. But if you think Korean culture has nothing to do with this tragedy you're delusional. Not confucianism per se, but the disgraceful disregard for the safety of others. And yes, it fully warrants criticism, and those who endanger the welfare of others deserve our condemnation.
But we are not alone in our "Korea bashing". Some Koreans are also connecting the ferry disaster to other aspects of Korean behavior - namely driving culture and building safety. From today's Chosun Ilbo.
http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2014/04/22/2014042201316.html
Unfortunately, from what I've witnessed over the last two weeks on Korea's roads, very little will change. The only hope is for the president to demand the police enforce all safety laws - consistently, routinely and permanently. If not, police officers (starting with chiefs of police) need to be fired and charged with criminal negligence. Same goes for the fire departments and any other body assigned responsibility for public safety.
There's not too much "bashing" of Korea over this incident; there hasn't been nearly enough. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Things are moving in the right direction. |
You moved in the right direction.
It's nice of you to tune into CNN, and comment on the internet about the goings on in Korea, while you and yours are safe in Canada. Thanks for letting us know your thoughts. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| There's not too much "bashing" of Korea over this incident; there hasn't been nearly enough. |
So if there is a tragic accident in America or England involving negligence, the appropriate response would be all people in England of non-Anglo descent to point out flaws in British culture and blame the accident on British culture in a generalized fashion rather than say, blame specific individuals or flaws in government oversight? This of course assumes that the incident was indeed a result of "British culture" and not just a random idiot.
| Quote: |
| Unfortunately, from what I've witnessed over the last two weeks on Korea's roads, very little will change. |
Yes, because back home after every tragedy, report of a drunk driving death, and so on, bad traffic behavior has ceased. No one gets busted for drunk driving, speeding, running a red light. No one get involved in road rage incidents, and no one complains about other drivers and how dangerous they are.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/college-tour-tragedy/fedex-truck-erupted-flames-after-collision-college-tour-bus-n89786
Was this culture? Should Americans be engaging in some sort of nationwide vigil to reduce traffic deaths following this incident? Is this the result of American cultural values ran amok?
| Quote: |
| However, it wasn't the President |
What the heck will that accomplish? I don't see any reason to hold PGHBlueHouse responsible and her resigning would severely hamper any reform effort. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Personally I don't see any merit at all in the Prime Minister's resignation. To whatever extent any of this was his responsibility, it would be best for him to take the burden of enacting the relevant reforms upon himself. Instead he's just acting like a political whipping boy to create the image that someone's "paying the price" for all of this, probably to deflect blame from the President or the wider ruling party. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
