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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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 Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Hope you guys have a safe place to hang out during the upcoming riots. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
Well, I sure wouldn't lock the door and tell the kids to not move from their chairs. However, maybe I would pull the fire alarm and evacuate the school. This is exactly what we're talking about here. BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY, which is a concept that seems to be lost in Korea. The fire alarm has gone off several times at my school no one ever moves. That is the culture I'm talking about. Being totally unprepared and unwilling to respect real danger. Then acting all surprised and outraged when the 1/1000 chance happens and it really is an emergency. We see it every day on a much smaller scale. Kids run wild down the hallways and sometimes crash into each other. Korean teachers act like it's an act of god, there's no way to ever prevent anything like that from happening and life goes on as normal. Telling kids to walk and look where they're going is "not loving them". It's a cultural issue, whether you like it or not.
What's your point anyway (that's rhetorical, I don't really care)? That the captain did the right thing telling children to stay below deck while the ship continued to list because, oh my god!, he might have looked silly if he ordered them all up on deck 'just in case'? That's beyond stupid, even for you. I can't believe anyone with a college education, or hell, an elementary education can believe that. Even if it were the case, wouldn't that highlight this culture's obsession with saving face more than safety? You're contracting yourself with your absurd stretches to defend a Korean.
But the problem with you here in this thread now is that you're trying to force hypotheticals onto a very real situation. We don't need to imagine a fire or if the ship didn't capsize because IT TOTALLY DID. You're trying to muddy the issue with all these what ifs, but those are irrelevant. We have a very big WHAT IS.
Maybe you're the one who should leave this country. I wouldn't trust my kids around someone who is more interesting in defending the perpetrator of a crime than protecting kids. I mean, if my kid's teacher told me, "I would only pull the fire alarm and tell the kids to leave the room once I know for sure the fire is out of control and I've done everything within my power to put it out with the kids by my side. If they happen to burn alive, well that's the price we have to pay so I don't look foolish for pulling that alarm unnecessarily. You understand, right?" I would be very concerned. I would also be concerned if that guy told me, "I think our national image is more important than the life of your child, and I will defend anyone who harms your kid." But that's a whole other conversation. |
Blackcat, the issue isn't whether you would lock the doors- the issue is whether at the slightest sign of a dish smoldering, you would pull the fire alarm and evacuate the school. To claim that you would is a ridiculous. Everyone who has ever taught a cooking class knows that you move the kids away and deal with it. You try to deal with it first before escalating. Have you ever taught a cooking class? Invariably you will get something smoking sooner or later. But no one orders a full on evacuation of the school. You first try to stabilize the situation.
I really wish you would let your anger and personal disgust of me to subside enough to allow you to try and understand what I'm saying. Mayorgc has been able to do it. Even though he vehemently disagrees with me, he kinda gets where I'm coming from- Don't crucify someone before all the facts are in. On top of that was my attempt to get people to understand that each decision carries risks with it and when it comes to making a decision you DO have to play hypotheticals because each situation will have different results. You have to understand that what worked in one case might not work in the next, even though at the beginning the incidents look very similar.
Ordering people on deck isn't about looking silly. It's about the risk of people falling overboard when they are on a listing ship. If you can't comprehend how there is risk involved in such an action and how the captain would face the same scorn if he had done that and people went overboard and the ship didn't sink, then you can't grasp this issue and analyze the decision making process involved. I always was talking about a very narrow time window.
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His assertion, as you say, "That the captain did the right thing telling children to stay below deck while the ship continued to list".
He wrote a few times that the captain and crew may have been taking some action, and some time, to "stabilize the ship" prior to announcing abandon ship.
But he doesn't describe any details of this magical, mystical, ship stabilization therapy. He can't. He's making it up as he goes along, and if one point gets refuted, its on to another point, or goes off on a tangent altogether. |
Actually the crew said that after the initial incident a 8:48 they tried to right the ship and that the captain was summoned to the bridge. They might be lying, but I highly doubt they just threw up their hands and said "woe is us".
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The ship listed and it got worse. Not better, worse. The captain and crew were stymied, stumped, confounded and confused. They did nothing to stabilize the ship. |
The fact that they did not succeed in stabilizing the ship does not mean that they made no effort.
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| You're right to compare it to Rumsfeld. It's the same thing, on a smaller scale. To see a man justify the killing of innocents (and young manipulated men and women) based on politics is just enraging. Obviously, SR is not directly responsible for the Sewol tragedy, but it's similar when you read his words justifying it and trying to co-opt the righteous perspective. |
Blackcat, can you do me a favor and read what I post as a whole? Nowhere have I justified it. I have repeatedly said that the captain erred on several fronts.
I consider the choice of whether to put people on deck akin to the decision of an aircraft suffering a mechanical failure to immediately ditch/crash land or try to make it back to the airport. Both decisions carry risks. Either one might be the right answer. Both could potentially end in failure. The thing is, that the pilot has incomplete information. It may turn out that one or the other course might have been the right one. But you can't expect the pilot to always get that decision right.
If you can't grasp the concept of analyzing an event at the time it occurred vs. analyzing it in hindsight, understanding the concept of incomplete information, and understanding that each decision carries risk, then you unprepared to carry out this discussion in a mature, rational fashion.
| Quote: |
| Well, there's no bigger hypocrite than SR who skims over the deaths of hundreds of children |
Again, if you can't grasp the concept of me focusing on that single aspect of that incident, while holding different opinions about the captain's conduct, and analyzing a single aspect of the events that took place, then you are not ready to have this discussion. I have said, and we all agree that the captain is guilty of multiple acts of gross negligence and we all agree upon it. However I am pointing out how the "all hands on deck" decision is not as easy as people are making it. It is not that clear cut. Just because someone raises questions about one decision, does not mean one is clearing a person of all responsibility. Again, if you can't grasp that concept, you are not ready to have this discussion. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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IMO, you are not ready to accept the fact that whomever was in charge should have had all passengers preparing to evacuate. This was evident from the beginning and nothing has been brought to light that would change that.
Yelling at other posters is not going to change that. |
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byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Why exactly is a hypothetical cooking class being discussed? Oh, I know, it's because Mr. Look Over Here at This Instead, suggested it as a comparison in yet another attempt to derail. SMH |
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guavashake
Joined: 09 Nov 2013
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| fatwood wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
| fatwood wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
| fatwood wrote: |
 This is an unpaid endorsement for Spam.
I enjoy Spam because its bad taste and more filling.
I advertise Spam for free coz I'm a nitwit.
So that's why your girlfriend keeps talking about Spam Jam and how she hates that you go there for all your vacations. What's your favorite Spam recipe?
And can you maybe do a little something to entertain her a bit? Every time I come home she's sitting on my doorstep waiting for me, and you know, the neighbors are starting to talk. One even said it was commentable.
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guano snake, can't you do any better than changing what I wrote? Can't you write you own material? No more poems that you can cut and paste?
Your girlfriend says that's one of your problems--no creativity. Seems like you could shake things up a bit, but no she says it's always the same ol' same ol. Span for dinner, news on the tube and then to bed to....sleep. All blow and no go.
So keep huffing and puffing, but no one here's afraid of the big, bad wolf, no matter how much canned piggy he's eaten
I think we can safely file your post under the pot calling the kettle black.
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The aroma of potbelly pig ala fatwood in the kettle stinks.
Its overcooked tripe.
fatwood is engaging in the time honored tradition of fouling up a thread in hope that it will be deleted. I hope it sticks and that this cyberstalker can be identified. |
Your girlfriend is the stalker, snakeboy. Of course, it turns out that she's also your cousin and has been getting paid by your auntie to babysit you. She just calls herself your girlfriend out of embarrassment.
And is see you've switched positions. Now you're kettle calling the pot black. Some sort of AC/DC troll.  |
There was an old pork bellied cop
And he tried to force guava to stop
Using modern expression in his English lesson
That dumb fatwood cop was a flop
Fatwood proceeded to shoot
And he punctured himself in the boot
In the hospital lobby he took up a hobby
Practicing on his own flute
The horny old cop was indicted
After making the people excited
He was busted for lewdness, creepiness, crudeness
The citizens all were delighted
When the corpulent copper was busted
For making the people disgusted
The result was of course he was kicked off the force
Because he could no longer be trusted |
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dairyairy
Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| Died By Bear wrote: |
| Hope you guys have a safe place to hang out during the upcoming riots. |
Hopefully it won't come to that but it could be a long summer of protests in Seoul. Hopefully there won't be a wave of suicides, with all of the depressing coverage and all things considered. Protesting and/or sucides are, unfortunately, how many deal with things in Korea. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| guavashake wrote: |
| fatwood wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
| fatwood wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
| fatwood wrote: |
This is an unpaid endorsement for Spam.
I enjoy Spam because its bad taste and more filling.
I advertise Spam for free coz I'm a nitwit.
So that's why your girlfriend keeps talking about Spam Jam and how she hates that you go there for all your vacations. What's your favorite Spam recipe?
And can you maybe do a little something to entertain her a bit? Every time I come home she's sitting on my doorstep waiting for me, and you know, the neighbors are starting to talk. One even said it was commentable.
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guano snake, can't you do any better than changing what I wrote? Can't you write you own material? No more poems that you can cut and paste?
Your girlfriend says that's one of your problems--no creativity. Seems like you could shake things up a bit, but no she says it's always the same ol' same ol. Span for dinner, news on the tube and then to bed to....sleep. All blow and no go.
So keep huffing and puffing, but no one here's afraid of the big, bad wolf, no matter how much canned piggy he's eaten
I think we can safely file your post under the pot calling the kettle black.
|
The aroma of potbelly pig ala fatwood in the kettle stinks.
Its overcooked tripe.
fatwood is engaging in the time honored tradition of fouling up a thread in hope that it will be deleted. I hope it sticks and that this cyberstalker can be identified. |
Your girlfriend is the stalker, snakeboy. Of course, it turns out that she's also your cousin and has been getting paid by your auntie to babysit you. She just calls herself your girlfriend out of embarrassment.
And is see you've switched positions. Now you're kettle calling the pot black. Some sort of AC/DC troll. |
There was an old pork bellied cop
And he tried to force guava to stop
Using modern expression in his English lesson
That dumb fatwood cop was a flop
Fatwood proceeded to shoot
And he punctured himself in the boot
In the hospital lobby he took up a hobby
Practicing on his own flute
The horny old cop was indicted
After making the people excited
He was busted for lewdness, creepiness, crudeness
The citizens all were delighted
When the corpulent copper was busted
For making the people disgusted
The result was of course he was kicked off the force
Because he could no longer be trusted |
guano snake, that's the same poem. And, according to your babysitter, it's from an old lullaby she used to sing to you at bedtime.
Nighty night, snake boy. And no spam for you tonight. |
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guavashake
Joined: 09 Nov 2013
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| fatwood wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
| fatwood wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
| fatwood wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
| fatwood wrote: |
This is an unpaid endorsement for Spam.
I enjoy Spam because its bad taste and more filling.
I advertise Spam for free coz I'm a nitwit.
So that's why your girlfriend keeps talking about Spam Jam and how she hates that you go there for all your vacations. What's your favorite Spam recipe?
And can you maybe do a little something to entertain her a bit? Every time I come home she's sitting on my doorstep waiting for me, and you know, the neighbors are starting to talk. One even said it was commentable.
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guano snake, can't you do any better than changing what I wrote? Can't you write you own material? No more poems that you can cut and paste?
Your girlfriend says that's one of your problems--no creativity. Seems like you could shake things up a bit, but no she says it's always the same ol' same ol. Span for dinner, news on the tube and then to bed to....sleep. All blow and no go.
So keep huffing and puffing, but no one here's afraid of the big, bad wolf, no matter how much canned piggy he's eaten
I think we can safely file your post under the pot calling the kettle black.
|
The aroma of potbelly pig ala fatwood in the kettle stinks.
Its overcooked tripe.
fatwood is engaging in the time honored tradition of fouling up a thread in hope that it will be deleted. I hope it sticks and that this cyberstalker can be identified. |
Your girlfriend is the stalker, snakeboy. Of course, it turns out that she's also your cousin and has been getting paid by your auntie to babysit you. She just calls herself your girlfriend out of embarrassment.
And is see you've switched positions. Now you're kettle calling the pot black. Some sort of AC/DC troll. |
There was an old pork bellied cop
And he tried to force guava to stop
Using modern expression in his English lesson
That dumb fatwood cop was a flop
Fatwood proceeded to shoot
And he punctured himself in the boot
In the hospital lobby he took up a hobby
Practicing on his own flute
The horny old cop was indicted
After making the people excited
He was busted for lewdness, creepiness, crudeness
The citizens all were delighted
When the corpulent copper was busted
For making the people disgusted
The result was of course he was kicked off the force
Because he could no longer be trusted |
guano snake, that's the same poem. And, according to your babysitter, it's from an old lullaby she used to sing to you at bedtime.
Nighty night, snake boy. And no spam for you tonight. |
There was an old pork bellied cop
And he tried to force guava to stop
Using modern expression in his English lesson
That dumb fatwood cop was a flop
Fatwood proceeded to shoot
And he punctured himself in the boot
In the hospital lobby he took up a hobby
Practicing on his own flute
The horny old cop was indicted
After making the people excited
He was busted for lewdness, creepiness, crudeness
The citizens all were delighted
When the corpulent copper was busted
For making the people disgusted
The result was of course he was kicked off the force
Because he could no longer be trusted
They say you can find him on Dave's
He's well known for his ranting and raves
Now with dreadlocks and beard he looks totally weird
And he neither showers nor shaves |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| guavashake wrote: |
| fatwood wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
| fatwood wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
| fatwood wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
| fatwood wrote: |
This is an unpaid endorsement for Spam.
I enjoy Spam because its bad taste and more filling.
I advertise Spam for free coz I'm a nitwit.
So that's why your girlfriend keeps talking about Spam Jam and how she hates that you go there for all your vacations. What's your favorite Spam recipe?
And can you maybe do a little something to entertain her a bit? Every time I come home she's sitting on my doorstep waiting for me, and you know, the neighbors are starting to talk. One even said it was commentable.
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guano snake, can't you do any better than changing what I wrote? Can't you write you own material? No more poems that you can cut and paste?
Your girlfriend says that's one of your problems--no creativity. Seems like you could shake things up a bit, but no she says it's always the same ol' same ol. Span for dinner, news on the tube and then to bed to....sleep. All blow and no go.
So keep huffing and puffing, but no one here's afraid of the big, bad wolf, no matter how much canned piggy he's eaten
I think we can safely file your post under the pot calling the kettle black.
|
The aroma of potbelly pig ala fatwood in the kettle stinks.
Its overcooked tripe.
fatwood is engaging in the time honored tradition of fouling up a thread in hope that it will be deleted. I hope it sticks and that this cyberstalker can be identified. |
Your girlfriend is the stalker, snakeboy. Of course, it turns out that she's also your cousin and has been getting paid by your auntie to babysit you. She just calls herself your girlfriend out of embarrassment.
And is see you've switched positions. Now you're kettle calling the pot black. Some sort of AC/DC troll. |
There was an old pork bellied cop
And he tried to force guava to stop
Using modern expression in his English lesson
That dumb fatwood cop was a flop
Fatwood proceeded to shoot
And he punctured himself in the boot
In the hospital lobby he took up a hobby
Practicing on his own flute
The horny old cop was indicted
After making the people excited
He was busted for lewdness, creepiness, crudeness
The citizens all were delighted
When the corpulent copper was busted
For making the people disgusted
The result was of course he was kicked off the force
Because he could no longer be trusted |
guano snake, that's the same poem. And, according to your babysitter, it's from an old lullaby she used to sing to you at bedtime.
Nighty night, snake boy. And no spam for you tonight. |
There was an old pork bellied cop
And he tried to force guava to stop
Using modern expression in his English lesson
That dumb fatwood cop was a flop
Fatwood proceeded to shoot
And he punctured himself in the boot
In the hospital lobby he took up a hobby
Practicing on his own flute
The horny old cop was indicted
After making the people excited
He was busted for lewdness, creepiness, crudeness
The citizens all were delighted
When the corpulent copper was busted
For making the people disgusted
The result was of course he was kicked off the force
Because he could no longer be trusted
They say you can find him on Dave's
He's well known for his ranting and raves
Now with dreadlocks and beard he looks totally weird
And he neither showers nor shaves |
guano snake, the rhyming reptile
Aren't you up past your bedtime? Your babysitter said you're supposed to be in bed by 10. And don't forget to wear your retainer. |
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dairyairy
Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea
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guavashake
Joined: 09 Nov 2013
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| fatwood wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
| fatwood wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
| fatwood wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
| fatwood wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
| fatwood wrote: |
This is an unpaid endorsement for Spam.
I enjoy Spam because its bad taste and more filling.
I advertise Spam for free coz I'm a nitwit.
So that's why your girlfriend keeps talking about Spam Jam and how she hates that you go there for all your vacations. What's your favorite Spam recipe?
And can you maybe do a little something to entertain her a bit? Every time I come home she's sitting on my doorstep waiting for me, and you know, the neighbors are starting to talk. One even said it was commentable.
|
|
guano snake, can't you do any better than changing what I wrote? Can't you write you own material? No more poems that you can cut and paste?
Your girlfriend says that's one of your problems--no creativity. Seems like you could shake things up a bit, but no she says it's always the same ol' same ol. Span for dinner, news on the tube and then to bed to....sleep. All blow and no go.
So keep huffing and puffing, but no one here's afraid of the big, bad wolf, no matter how much canned piggy he's eaten
I think we can safely file your post under the pot calling the kettle black.
|
The aroma of potbelly pig ala fatwood in the kettle stinks.
Its overcooked tripe.
fatwood is engaging in the time honored tradition of fouling up a thread in hope that it will be deleted. I hope it sticks and that this cyberstalker can be identified. |
Your girlfriend is the stalker, snakeboy. Of course, it turns out that she's also your cousin and has been getting paid by your auntie to babysit you. She just calls herself your girlfriend out of embarrassment.
And is see you've switched positions. Now you're kettle calling the pot black. Some sort of AC/DC troll. |
There was an old pork bellied cop
And he tried to force guava to stop
Using modern expression in his English lesson
That dumb fatwood cop was a flop
Fatwood proceeded to shoot
And he punctured himself in the boot
In the hospital lobby he took up a hobby
Practicing on his own flute
The horny old cop was indicted
After making the people excited
He was busted for lewdness, creepiness, crudeness
The citizens all were delighted
When the corpulent copper was busted
For making the people disgusted
The result was of course he was kicked off the force
Because he could no longer be trusted |
guano snake, that's the same poem. And, according to your babysitter, it's from an old lullaby she used to sing to you at bedtime.
Nighty night, snake boy. And no spam for you tonight. |
There was an old pork bellied cop
And he tried to force guava to stop
Using modern expression in his English lesson
That dumb fatwood cop was a flop
Fatwood proceeded to shoot
And he punctured himself in the boot
In the hospital lobby he took up a hobby
Practicing on his own flute
The horny old cop was indicted
After making the people excited
He was busted for lewdness, creepiness, crudeness
The citizens all were delighted
When the corpulent copper was busted
For making the people disgusted
The result was of course he was kicked off the force
Because he could no longer be trusted
They say you can find him on Dave's
He's well known for his ranting and raves
Now with dreadlocks and beard he looks totally weird
And he neither showers nor shaves |
guano snake, the rhyming reptile
Aren't you up past your bedtime? Your babysitter said you're supposed to be in bed by 10. And don't forget to wear your retainer. |
There was an old pork bellied cop
And he tried to force guava to stop
Using modern expression in his English lesson
That dumb fatwood cop was a flop
Fatwood proceeded to shoot
And he punctured himself in the boot
In the hospital lobby he took up a hobby
Practicing on his own flute
The horny old cop was indicted
After making the people excited
He was busted for lewdness, creepiness, crudeness
The citizens all were delighted
When the corpulent copper was busted
For making the people disgusted
The result was of course he was kicked off the force
Because he could no longer be trusted
They say you can find him on Dave's
He's well known for his ranting and raves
Now with dreadlocks and beard he looks totally weird
And he neither showers nor shaves
If you have something creepy to say
Then you should be willing to pay
So don't do the crime if you can't do the time
Hasta la vista, good day |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| guavashake wrote: |
| fatwood wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
| fatwood wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
| fatwood wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
| fatwood wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
| fatwood wrote: |
This is an unpaid endorsement for Spam.
I enjoy Spam because its bad taste and more filling.
I advertise Spam for free coz I'm a nitwit.
So that's why your girlfriend keeps talking about Spam Jam and how she hates that you go there for all your vacations. What's your favorite Spam recipe?
And can you maybe do a little something to entertain her a bit? Every time I come home she's sitting on my doorstep waiting for me, and you know, the neighbors are starting to talk. One even said it was commentable.
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guano snake, can't you do any better than changing what I wrote? Can't you write you own material? No more poems that you can cut and paste?
Your girlfriend says that's one of your problems--no creativity. Seems like you could shake things up a bit, but no she says it's always the same ol' same ol. Span for dinner, news on the tube and then to bed to....sleep. All blow and no go.
So keep huffing and puffing, but no one here's afraid of the big, bad wolf, no matter how much canned piggy he's eaten
I think we can safely file your post under the pot calling the kettle black.
|
The aroma of potbelly pig ala fatwood in the kettle stinks.
Its overcooked tripe.
fatwood is engaging in the time honored tradition of fouling up a thread in hope that it will be deleted. I hope it sticks and that this cyberstalker can be identified. |
Your girlfriend is the stalker, snakeboy. Of course, it turns out that she's also your cousin and has been getting paid by your auntie to babysit you. She just calls herself your girlfriend out of embarrassment.
And is see you've switched positions. Now you're kettle calling the pot black. Some sort of AC/DC troll. |
There was an old pork bellied cop
And he tried to force guava to stop
Using modern expression in his English lesson
That dumb fatwood cop was a flop
Fatwood proceeded to shoot
And he punctured himself in the boot
In the hospital lobby he took up a hobby
Practicing on his own flute
The horny old cop was indicted
After making the people excited
He was busted for lewdness, creepiness, crudeness
The citizens all were delighted
When the corpulent copper was busted
For making the people disgusted
The result was of course he was kicked off the force
Because he could no longer be trusted |
guano snake, that's the same poem. And, according to your babysitter, it's from an old lullaby she used to sing to you at bedtime.
Nighty night, snake boy. And no spam for you tonight. |
There was an old pork bellied cop
And he tried to force guava to stop
Using modern expression in his English lesson
That dumb fatwood cop was a flop
Fatwood proceeded to shoot
And he punctured himself in the boot
In the hospital lobby he took up a hobby
Practicing on his own flute
The horny old cop was indicted
After making the people excited
He was busted for lewdness, creepiness, crudeness
The citizens all were delighted
When the corpulent copper was busted
For making the people disgusted
The result was of course he was kicked off the force
Because he could no longer be trusted
They say you can find him on Dave's
He's well known for his ranting and raves
Now with dreadlocks and beard he looks totally weird
And he neither showers nor shaves |
guano snake, the rhyming reptile
Aren't you up past your bedtime? Your babysitter said you're supposed to be in bed by 10. And don't forget to wear your retainer. |
There was an old pork bellied cop
And he tried to force guava to stop
Using modern expression in his English lesson
That dumb fatwood cop was a flop
Fatwood proceeded to shoot
And he punctured himself in the boot
In the hospital lobby he took up a hobby
Practicing on his own flute
The horny old cop was indicted
After making the people excited
He was busted for lewdness, creepiness, crudeness
The citizens all were delighted
When the corpulent copper was busted
For making the people disgusted
The result was of course he was kicked off the force
Because he could no longer be trusted
They say you can find him on Dave's
He's well known for his ranting and raves
Now with dreadlocks and beard he looks totally weird
And he neither showers nor shaves
If you have something creepy to say
Then you should be willing to pay
So don't do the crime if you can't do the time
Hasta la vista, good day |
A bit mixed up are, quano snake?
Your posts are the crime, but you remain unwilling to pay.
One day when you're a man, little one, you will see there's honor in being able to admit your wrongs and only silly little buggers get upset when they're mistakes are pointed out. COMMENDABLE is he who can learn from his mistakes rather than deny them.
Until that day, snakeboy, slither away. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
Every country goes through things like this to change rules, and laws. Korea just came out of the 3rd-world like 20 years ago, and has changed so fast. Yet you guys expect even faster change? Be a little more realistic here. Things you see in Korea now, like no-seat belts, corruption, cronyism, drunk-driving, was common 'back home'...
Some quote in a fascinating article i read today...
Yet the loss of the Sewol may result, along with retribution against all of those responsible, in higher standards of seamanship and improvements in ship design. Future lives will be saved. The Seoul government will never again risk being exposed to the humiliation of its failure to protect its own young people.
Of course things will change. The fear of being embarrassed is a huge factor and will change on-board safety. This has made the international news and Koreans are embarrassed by this. Like how they manage to pull-off big international events, because of the fear of being embarrassed. The Sampoong building collapse, and bridge collapse in the 90's upped the quality of corporate buildings and public bridges. The companies being investigated now will essentially be bankrupted. But new ones, that meet stricter safety requirements will pop-up. And hopefully, the next generational sea-faring tragedy won't be so tragic.
Problem is, big internationally embarrassing tragedies will have to happen in other industries for that industry to clean up too. And huge things happen so rarely. I'd figure it would have to take a massive nationwide earthquake to really change attitudes towards safety. |
What a piss-poor excuse for an apology. You better be ready for some radical re-education at the next apologistas' confab. |
How is it an apology? I am guessing the majority of Korea haters to frequent this board lately were born in the 1980s, maybe even early 90s...
When I was a kid in the 1970s, NO ONE wore seat belts. People smoked in cars full of kids, kids sat on the laps of parents. We packed kids in the back of station wagons without care for safety.
Corporations were dumping crap into rivers, air pollution was horrible, and corporate greed was destroying the environment.
This is 30-40 years ago in first world nations that were economic power houses after WWII.
What the guy said is true: Korea hasn't been out of the 3rd world long and it takes time to change attitudes.
I am not an apologist. I know Korea can be messed up at times with many of the facts people have stated in this thread. The thing is that gets me pissed is people seem to think it will ALWAYS be messed up. To that I say grow up and get some perspective. I first came to Korea in the 1990s and in over 15 years the country has seen a lot of changes - you wouldn't believe how dirty the place was back then. Give it more time - they will change. Till then, yeah grumble about all the things that are "wrong" with the place, but don't go pointing the apologist finger when someone points out a historical and realistic truth: they haven't had the same amount of time as Western democracies to learn through their mistakes. Hell, they haven't even been a democracy for 20 years... |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. Pink wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
Every country goes through things like this to change rules, and laws. Korea just came out of the 3rd-world like 20 years ago, and has changed so fast. Yet you guys expect even faster change? Be a little more realistic here. Things you see in Korea now, like no-seat belts, corruption, cronyism, drunk-driving, was common 'back home'...
Some quote in a fascinating article i read today...
Yet the loss of the Sewol may result, along with retribution against all of those responsible, in higher standards of seamanship and improvements in ship design. Future lives will be saved. The Seoul government will never again risk being exposed to the humiliation of its failure to protect its own young people.
Of course things will change. The fear of being embarrassed is a huge factor and will change on-board safety. This has made the international news and Koreans are embarrassed by this. Like how they manage to pull-off big international events, because of the fear of being embarrassed. The Sampoong building collapse, and bridge collapse in the 90's upped the quality of corporate buildings and public bridges. The companies being investigated now will essentially be bankrupted. But new ones, that meet stricter safety requirements will pop-up. And hopefully, the next generational sea-faring tragedy won't be so tragic.
Problem is, big internationally embarrassing tragedies will have to happen in other industries for that industry to clean up too. And huge things happen so rarely. I'd figure it would have to take a massive nationwide earthquake to really change attitudes towards safety. |
What a piss-poor excuse for an apology. You better be ready for some radical re-education at the next apologistas' confab. |
How is it an apology? I am guessing the majority of Korea haters to frequent this board lately were born in the 1980s, maybe even early 90s...
When I was a kid in the 1970s, NO ONE wore seat belts. People smoked in cars full of kids, kids sat on the laps of parents. We packed kids in the back of station wagons without care for safety.
Corporations were dumping crap into rivers, air pollution was horrible, and corporate greed was destroying the environment.
This is 30-40 years ago in first world nations that were economic power houses after WWII.
What the guy said is true: Korea hasn't been out of the 3rd world long and it takes time to change attitudes.
I am not an apologist. I know Korea can be messed up at times with many of the facts people have stated in this thread. The thing is that gets me pissed is people seem to think it will ALWAYS be messed up. To that I say grow up and get some perspective. I first came to Korea in the 1990s and in over 15 years the country has seen a lot of changes - you wouldn't believe how dirty the place was back then. Give it more time - they will change. Till then, yeah grumble about all the things that are "wrong" with the place, but don't go pointing the apologist finger when someone points out a historical and realistic truth: they haven't had the same amount of time as Western democracies to learn through their mistakes. Hell, they haven't even been a democracy for 20 years... |
Korea has been around for a long, long time--centuries, not decades. So IMO your comments are neither historical nor realistic.
The safety issues you cite in the U.S.were already changing in the 70s. I know--I was around then. The first safety belt law went into effect in 1961. Laws were put into place , laws that many opposed, and were enforced. Things changed.
Here's an example:
| Quote: |
Acid rain was not considered a serious environmental problem until the 1970s. During that decade, scientists observed the increase in acidity of some lakes and streams. At the same time, research into long range transport of atmospheric pollutants such as sulfur dioxide, indicated a possible link to distant sources of pollution. Many power plants use coal with a relatively high concentration of sulfur as fuel. Scientists realized that sulfur dioxide emitted from many of these plants could be transported to the Northeast. When we began to see acid rain as a regional, rather than a local, problem, the federal government had to become involved.
In 1980, the U.S. Congress passed an Acid Deposition Act. This Act established a 10-year research program under the direction of the National Acidic Precipitation Assessment Program (NAPAP). NAPAP looked at the entire problem. It enlarged a network of monitoring sites to determine how acidic the precipitation actually was, and to determine long term trends, and established a network for dry deposition. It looked at the effects of acid rain and funded research on the effects of acid precipitation on freshwater and terrestrial ecosystems, historical buildings, monuments, and building materials. It also funded extensive studies on atmospheric processes and potential control programs.
In 1991, NAPAP provided its first assessment of acid rain in the United States. It reported that 5% of New England Lakes were acidic, with sulfates being the most common problem. They noted that 2% of the lakes could no longer support Brook Trout, and 6% of the lakes were unsuitable for the survival of many species of minnow. Subsequent Reports to Congress have documented chemical changes in soil and freshwater ecosystems, nitrogen saturation, decreases in amounts of nutrients in soil, episodic acidification, regional haze, and damage to historical monuments.
Meanwhile, in 1990, the US Congress passed a series of amendments to the Clean Air Act. Title IV of these amendments established a program designed to control emissions of sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides. Title IV called for a total reduction of about 10 million tons of SO2 emissions from power plants. It was implemented in two phases. Phase I began in 1995, and limited sulfur dioxide emissions from 110 of the largest power plants to a combined total of 8.7 million tons of sulfur dioxide One power plant in New England (Merrimack) was in Phase I. Four other plants (Newington, Mount Tom, Brayton Point, and Salem Harbor) were added under other provisions of the program. Phase II began in 2000, and affects most of the power plants in the country. Click here to see a list of affected power plants in New England.
Emissions of nitrogen oxide and nitrogen dioxide, generally called NOx, have been reduced by a variety of programs required under the Clean Air Act. NOx is emitted by anything burning fuel, such as power plants, large factories, automobiles, trucks, and construction equipment.
In New England, between 1990 and 2000, we have seen a 25% decrease in NOx emissions from all sources (from approximately 897,000 tons to 668,000 tons). Between 2000 and 2006, NOx emissions from Acid Rain affected power plants in New England have further decreased by more than 31,000 tons. During that same period, SO2 emissions from those power plants have decreased by 54% (from approximately 211,000 tons to 96, 500 tons).
During the 1990s, research has continued, and we are gradually developing a better understanding of acid rain and its effects on the environment. We are looking more closely at soil chemistry, and are seeing how acid rain has changed the balance of calcium, aluminum, and other elements.
The success of the Acid Rain Program has led to consideration of other programs based on setting an emissions cap. The NOx budget program which began in 1999, places a limit on NOx emissions from power plants and some other sources during the warmer months of the year. Its purpose is to control ground level ozone, but it will have some effect on acid rain also. Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and Connecticut have designed their own programs to further limit emissions of NOx and SO2. Connecticut's rule contributed to a 68% decrease in SO2 emissions from large sources from 2001 to 2002.
On March 10, 2005, EPA issued the Clean Air Interstate Rule (CAIR). This rule provides states with a solution to the problem of power plant pollution that drifts from one state to another. CAIR will permanently cap emissions of SO2 and NOx in the eastern United States. When fully implemented, CAIR will reduce SO2 emissions in 28 eastern states and the District of Columbia by over 70 percent and NOx emissions by over 60 percent from 2003 levels. |
That didn't take long.
"It takes time" is the oldest excuse in the books. That's the excuse segregationists used in the U.S. to give just one egregious example.
Since the ferry incident, we've had the Asiana pilot disregarding the engine warning light and lying about it and the subway collision and ensuing panic that left 200 injured.
Embarrassment doesn't seem to be working. |
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