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The ferry disaster. Will it change anything?
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atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 3:00 am Post subject:

guavashake wrote:

le=paul wrote:

fatwood wrote:

I never get this argument of Steelrails'.

I really don't understand.

There must be a verb for whats happened in Korea in terms of development, I cant for the life of me think what it is though.

etc...

Now there's a trinitwitty fustercluck going on, l + f + S (trinity + nitwit = trinitwitty).

Yes, we already established your atrocious usage of the English language.

If you want to describe what's happened in Korea, or describe anything, you need to use an adjective, not a verb, or perhaps an adverb.

There's a reason why you don't understand.

It's good to see the police at work. Maybe you'll get a COMMENDATION for your work.

le-paul

Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 3:22 am Post subject:

guavashake wrote:

le=paul wrote:

fatwood wrote:

I never get this argument of Steelrails'.

I really don't understand.

There must be a verb for whats happened in Korea in terms of development, I cant for the life of me think what it is though.

etc...

Really? Heres a verb for what happened in Korea that isnt an adjective...

'Develop' - 'Korea developed between 1980 - 2014'.

All words describe things Guano, that's the difference between writing and drawing. Verbs describe actions.

Go back to Jungchul and ask for your money back.

Last edited by le-paul on Tue May 06, 2014 3:23 am; edited 1 time in total

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 3:22 am Post subject:

3DR wrote:

atwood wrote:

3DR wrote:

metalhead wrote:

I never get this argument of Steelrails' which claims that 'it happened in the West/US fifty years ago, too!' - basically he is saying that Korea is 50 years behind the West with regards to common sense and civility - in other words, he is insulting Korea again and again.

I really don't understand why you guys are having trouble with this.

Let's take a look at 2 countries, USA and Japan

USA has about 200+ years of head start progress on Korea.

Japan opened up to the West in the 1800s and began importing Western technology. Korea basically didn't start industrializing seriously until the early 1960s which means that for some strange reason, you are expecting this country to magically catch up to the standards of the West with breakneck speed.

Steelrail's argument is that every single country who wants to make progress will take an extended period of time to get there.

Saying the west is ahead of Korea in many things might be true, but it's no different than a poor person rising from the ghetto, becoming successful, then going back to the ghetto and telling his peers to hurry up and catch up with him. What's taking so long? Uh newsflash, it doesn't happen overnight.

Korea has made lots of progress, and yes many things need to change and I get pissed off with some things from time to time, but I can at least look at it from an objective viewpoint that yes it will take time, and not it's not an excuse.

Considering what they have done in only half a century, I expect in another 50 years (maybe a lot sooner with technology) the standards will be much better. Compared to when I came here in 2009, lots of things have already changed.

You guy's arguments basically seem to be, "The west is ahead of Korea (which is true), so Korea should already be there too." while giving no reason or proof of other countries making that much progress in such a short amount of time. Hong Kong and Singapore MAYBE...but again, they, like many other asian countries had outside help from the West as a headstart.

I disagree with your premise that Korea has had a short amount of time. There was a Korea long before there was a U.S.

Your ghetto analogy, BTW, is terrible. The person who rose has had exactly the same amount of time as those he is encouraging and since your whole argument is based on differences in time, it doesn't support that. Time is not what's holding them back.

Actually seeing as how every developed country in this world only became developed after interacting with and importing Western technology and standards, yes it has only had a short time.

I don't understand why this is so hard for you and others to understand. Either you are too stubborn in your beliefs or just ignorant about how things work.

As for the ghetto analogy, I should've written that the guy who succeeded had outside help from privileged sources.

Like I said, I actually admit that the West has been the biggest influencer of things around the world. I'm just not an asshole about it.

You have to give me a reason WHY Korea should have all of its sh*t together by now considering that:

1. The USA had the Civil Rights Movement back in the 60s, yet is still dealing with race issues.

2. South Africa is still dealing with race issues even after ending apartheid.

3. The myriad of other countries that are still dealing with the left overs of issues that were thought to be dead years ago.

You have yet to give me of any country in history progressing in social issues, economy, safety standards in a short amount of time without first dealing with and experiencing tragedies, failures, etc.

South Korea has, as I said, had hundreds of years of history. It didn't just spring out form under a cabbage leaf 60 years ago. Why can't you accept that historical fact instead of creating a false excuse of not enough time.

I don't have to give you any reason "WHY Korea should have all of its sh*t together " because I never posted that. And I don't believe anyone else has either, so why did you ask in the first place?

I'm talking about cultural values that a society either has or doesn't. They don't depend on Western technology or any sort of technology. Those values determine how people go about their daily lives, including their jobs. Do they do them well out of a sense of pride in a job well done or do they do them grudgingly and poorly? Do they do them honestly or not?

How are people conditioned to react in an emergency? Do they panic as they did in the Seoul subway collision or do they stay calm and evacuate in a safe and orderly fashion, as they did in NYC?

How do they react when something goes wrong? The cable car in Busan had to "fail" twice before they shut it down to figure out what was going wrong. Trial and error with people's lives?

As you said, the U.S. is still dealing with race issues. They're dealing with the problem and working to resolve it. They're dealing with lots of issues and some will get better and some won't. What that has to do with Korean culture I have not a clue.

BTW, your ghetto analogy went from bad to worse. Why does someone have to have gotten help from outside, privileged sources to succeed? I realize you're still trying to create an excuse for SK, but it still doesn't work.

guavashake

Joined: 09 Nov 2013

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 3:24 am Post subject:

fatwood wrote:

It's good to see the police at work. Maybe you'll get a COMMENDATION for your work.

As you are a former crime fighter, and the dimmest of wits, I hereby nominate YOU to become head honcho of the trinity of nitwits, the circle of jerks.

guavashake

Joined: 09 Nov 2013

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 3:35 am Post subject:

le=paul wrote:

guavashake wrote:

le=paul wrote:

fatwood wrote:

I never get this argument of Steelrails'.

I really don't understand.

There must be a verb for whats happened in Korea in terms of development, I cant for the life of me think what it is though.

etc...

There must be a verb for whats happened in Korea in terms of development, I cant for the life of me think what it is though.

[Ten hour time lapse].....

Really? Heres a verb for what happened in Korea that isnt an adjective...

'Develop' - 'Korea developed between 1980 - 2014'.

That's nice, it took you ten hours to talk about development, and then come up with the word 'develop'

And it doesn't describe anything about what happened in terms of development.

le-paul

Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 3:55 am Post subject:

guavashake wrote:

le=paul wrote:

guavashake wrote:

le=paul wrote:

fatwood wrote:

I never get this argument of Steelrails'.

I really don't understand.

There must be a verb for whats happened in Korea in terms of development, I cant for the life of me think what it is though.

etc...

That's nice, it took you ten hours to talk about development, and then come up with the word 'develop'

And it doesn't describe anything about what happened in terms of development.

No, its called having a life Guanoshake...

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 4:47 am Post subject:

guavashake wrote:

fatwood wrote:

It's good to see the police at work. Maybe you'll get a COMMENDATION for your work.

As you are a former crime fighter, and the dimmest of wits, I hereby nominate YOU to become head honcho of the trinity of nitwits, the circle of jerks.

So now we know what happened to guano:

Snakes in my bushes, hanging down from the trees
Snakes in my bushes, hanging down from the trees
Last snake charmer put them snakes on me.

Snakes in my bushes, spiders climbing up the vine
Snakes in my bushes, spiders climbing up the vine
Snakes run me crazy, murder on my mind.

Steady killing snakes, I'm on a snake killing spree
Steak in the snakes, I'm on a snake killing spree
Find a snake doctor, get them snakes off me!

Dead snake keep livin' til the evening sun go down
Dead snake keep livin' til the evening sun go down
Won't turn them loose, still they're twitchin' 'round.

Snakes in my pillow, snakes underneath my bed
Snakes in my pillow, snakes underneath my bed
Goin' snake crazy, snakes all in my head.

Maybe you can get disability from the police force and they can reCOMMEND a good therapist.

But until then, it's time to do your homework if you want to watch TV tonight.

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 4:49 am Post subject:

guavashake wrote:

le=paul wrote:

guavashake wrote:

le=paul wrote:

fatwood wrote:

I never get this argument of Steelrails'.

I really don't understand.

There must be a verb for whats happened in Korea in terms of development, I cant for the life of me think what it is though.

etc...

That's nice, it took you ten hours to talk about development, and then come up with the word 'develop'

And it doesn't describe anything about what happened in terms of development.

That's because so little happened "in terms of development." I think you especially can empathize with little development.

guavashake

Joined: 09 Nov 2013

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 6:15 am Post subject:

fatwood wrote:

guavashake wrote:

fatwood wrote:

It's good to see the police at work. Maybe you'll get a COMMENDATION for your work.

As you are a former crime fighter, and the dimmest of wits, I hereby nominate YOU to become head honcho of the trinity of nitwits, the circle of jerks.

Snakes in my bushes, hanging down from the trees
Snakes in my bushes, hanging down from the trees
Last snake charmer put them snakes on me.

Snakes in my bushes, spiders climbing up the vine
Snakes in my bushes, spiders climbing up the vine
Snakes run me crazy, murder on my mind.

Steady killing snakes, I'm on a snake killing spree
Steak in the snakes, I'm on a snake killing spree
Find a snake doctor, get them snakes off me!

Dead snake keep livin' til the evening sun go down
Dead snake keep livin' til the evening sun go down
Won't turn them loose, still they're twitchin' 'round.

Snakes in my pillow, snakes underneath my bed
Snakes in my pillow, snakes underneath my bed
Goin' snake crazy, snakes all in my head.

Maybe you can reCOMMEND a good therapist.

You can consult with an esteemed member of this forum. drcrazy

For the perverted poetry, you get a commendation.
To fatwood, for your fatwa against truth and justice.
You are hereby commended for your...
Pride
Integrity
Guts

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 3:47 pm Post subject:

guanosnake wrote:

fatwood wrote:

guavashake wrote:

fatwood wrote:

It's good to see the police at work. Maybe you'll get a COMMENDATION for your work.

As you are a former crime fighter, and the dimmest of wits, I hereby nominate YOU to become head honcho of the trinity of nitwits, the circle of jerks.

commentable

The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search bar above.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/commentable

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 6:01 pm Post subject:

Mix1 wrote:

If they are going to boast about themselves and praise their own culture for where they are at, then it's fair to be critical of them and the culture when it comes to the bad parts too.

Fair point, but how many people here complain about Koreans spouting off generalized statements about our culture and judging it? And surely many of us engage in just as much boasting as they do. Also some of the biggest bomb throwers and harshest critics of Korea tend to be the most unwelcoming of criticism towards their own culture.

And who exactly are 'them'? All Koreans?

Quote:

if people at least offered credit to those who helped and werent do boastful and bombastic

To who? Americans? I think Koreans should be thankful to Korean War veterans and most are. Just like they are thankful to Turkish veterans and have always maintained a good relationship with Turkey.

Whenever I read these kinds of statements, I always wonder if the person is seeking some sort of credit for all of that, even though they had nothing to do with it. What do you want? Koreans to go up to you personally and thank you for making their country? You didn't do jack. What credit do you deserve?

If 'America' wants 'credit' for all of that, sure I guess. But then they should also line up to pay their outstanding 'debt' to African-Americans and be prepared to accept some group blame. That's right, hold you guilty for the crimes of your forefathers.

Either you get group credit and group blame or individual credit and individual blame. But you can't stand on your chair and brag about 500 years of great Western culture and how your people have built up Korea and then say "Hey, I didn't own any slaves or kill any Jews, why do I deserve blame for slavery and the Holocaust".

And isn't blaming individuals and holding the individual responsible one of the cornerstones of our system of justice and philosophical outlook?

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 6:19 pm Post subject:

Quote:

How are people conditioned to react in an emergency? Do they panic as they did in the Seoul subway collision or do they stay calm and evacuate in a safe and orderly fashion, as they did in NYC?

Funny, weren't the experts just earlier condemning passengers for following orders and not questioning authority in the Sewol sinking and blaming it on culture and Confucianism?

Do you think the recent Sewol incident might have affected passengers perceptions of what to do in such an accident?

And weren't we saying that the first thing you should do is just evacuate people and not wait for rescue workers?

And we haven't even gotten into other incidents in America where people panicked? And what about incidents where a subway has suffered an unexpected mechanical failure in Korea and people just got off with nothing going wrong?

THIS is a perfect example of the fallacy of the culture argument- It doesn't have any objective basis or criteria, it is dependent on creative writing. You have one incident and people blame culture for people listening to evacuation orders and following rules and not questioning things. You then have a different incident where people decide to just act for themselves and hop off and the culture argument gets brought out again, only using "Korean disorder" as a reason. Completely different reaction, yet both are blamed on culture. If culture were indeed a true and valid argument, you would see the same result repeated. But instead you get a completely different result. You don't get that. You just get people reacting to an incident and throwing out whatever cultural buzzwords they can use and presenting it as an explanation.

What is the scientific term for your hypothesis getting completely different results each time? HOGWASH. That's the culture argument.

Quote:

I'm talking about cultural values that a society either has or doesn't. They don't depend on Western technology or any sort of technology. Those values determine how people go about their daily lives, including their jobs. Do they do them well out of a sense of pride in a job well done or do they do them grudgingly and poorly? Do they do them honestly or not?

So are you saying that those values exist ONLY in one culture and not another? Are you saying they don't exist in another culture?

Are you seriously suggesting that millions of Westerners don't grudgingly go to work to an office they hate for a boss they loathe? Are you seriously suggesting that that there isn't political corruption and crony capitalism infesting politics and business back home?

And what about the Koreans who very clearly DO take pride in their job and put in an honest days work- be they restaurant owners, florists, taxi drivers, bus drivers, custom woodworkers, musicians, soldiers, mechanics, and yes, even businessmen? What is the cultural reason for their existence?

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:21 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

Quote:

How are people conditioned to react in an emergency? Do they panic as they did in the Seoul subway collision or do they stay calm and evacuate in a safe and orderly fashion, as they did in NYC?

Quote:

Different cultures have different values.

You're post is evasive--answering a question with a question.

Once you answer my questions, I'll consider answering yours. And only then.

So, from the top: Where did you get the 10's of millions figure? Did you just make it up?

When did reading become scientific?

TIA

jazzmaster

Joined: 30 Sep 2013

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 8:14 pm Post subject:

atwood wrote:

guanosnake wrote:

fatwood wrote:

guavashake wrote:

fatwood wrote:

It's good to see the police at work. Maybe you'll get a COMMENDATION for your work.

As you are a former crime fighter, and the dimmest of wits, I hereby nominate YOU to become head honcho of the trinity of nitwits, the circle of jerks.

commentable

The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search bar above.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/commentable

Why bother responding to a notorious loon? It's already been proven, and is accepted, that the word doesn't exist.
You're responding to a full grown adult who still uses "pig" to insult the police. Is it worth your time interacting with that kind of person?

guavashake

Joined: 09 Nov 2013

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 8:39 pm Post subject:

jizztaster wrote:

fatwood wrote:

guavashake wrote:

fatwood wrote:

guavashake wrote:

fatwood wrote:

It's good to see the police at work. Maybe you'll get a COMMENDATION for your work.

As you are a former crime fighter, and the dimmest of wits, I hereby nominate YOU to become head honcho of the trinity of nitwits, the circle of jerks.

You can consult with an esteemed member of this forum. drcrazy

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/commentable

Why bother? It's already been proven, and is accepted, that a more intelligent person than guavashake doesn't exist on this board.
You're responding to a highly intelligent person. Is it worth your time interacting with that kind of person?

You just did.

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