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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| take vacations to Europe |
On the five days you get off twice a year? By the time you got anywhere decent it'd be time to come back again  |
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jackson7
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Location: Kim Jong Il's Future Fireball
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| jackson7 wrote: |
Didn't take long for the thread to attract the usual "uni gigs aren't all they're cracked up to be" posters. To each his own, I suppose, but at the end of the day, many enjoy making a lot of money |
| jackson7 wrote: |
| I'm also one that has kept up with the times, publishing and presenting, and will finish my doctorate later this year |
Well, to me it's not worth the time, money, and effort to get a Ph.D in teaching English for such a low salary. (Doctorates in other subject areas pay more.) |
I'm sure they could, if those holding them find the right gigs. Mine is in applied linguistics (specifically assessment), but I would have pursued it anyway, simply as a personal life goal. It's only a bonus that it will lead to a pay rise in the future, and open up other opportunities for research and consulting (being ABD already has). Kids finishing their undergrads in unrelated fields are making six figures in the oil sands, so education these days is often a means unto itself. (money or better employment are nice added bonuses, if they materialize) 
J7 |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:09 am Post subject: |
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I can't know for sure but I would guess that is 3.5 million minus severance , housing and airfare .
severance 200
housing 300
airfare 200
If someone is using the same scale as a hogwon .
That is about the same as a hogwon paying 2.8 . (or 3.0 if you want to drop the airfare though i don't know why one ought to )
So I would guess that is 400 a month more than some of the somewhat higher paying hogwon franchises .
Someone who is single can be very comfortable on such a salary. But in any case the money is not everything it would all come down to how the university treats the instructor. There are some schools that are pretty good that way but many of the big famous top 15 schools are bad news.The schools that pay sometime like 2.2 for 16 hours but which don't demand so much are probably much better jobs to have if you only have yourself to support .
At any rate I think that University salaries should be evaluated according to the same standards that Hogwon salaries get evaluated on. |
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swashbuckler
Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 5:46 am Post subject: P |
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| jackson7 wrote: |
The whole gang's here! Mention unis and they shall come...
J7 |
sorry buddy, but I'm also Korean university instructor in my early 30's with job conditions similar to what you've been gloating about but I still could NEVER picture myself doing this same job 20-30 years later for a whole host of different reasons |
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jackson7
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Location: Kim Jong Il's Future Fireball
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: P |
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| swashbuckler wrote: |
| jackson7 wrote: |
The whole gang's here! Mention unis and they shall come...
J7 |
sorry buddy, but I'm also Korean university instructor in my early 30's with job conditions similar to what you've been gloating about but I still could NEVER picture myself doing this same job 20-30 years later for a whole host of different reasons |
No gloating here, friend. Just a reality check for those who think these jobs aren't a sweet deal, especially if you're able to use all that extra time you're afforded to pursue something meaningful and rewarding (time with your kids, write a book, higher education, etc.; you could even take on some very lucrative private lessons at 70-100k/hr if you're qualified and have a lick of Korean ability, if money is your main goal). I could NEVER picture myself in an office, no matter how much I was being paid, but I'm one who actually loves teaching, too. You sound like someone who's not so into it, or you have unfortunately found yourself at an institution with poorer conditions than you perceive.
J7 |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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If someone does one of those jobs they are not going to have much time to do much of anything of what is mentioned above during the term The vast majority of private jobs pay between 30 and 50 K and hour. Generally speaking the private teaching jobs that pay more will also be much harder which makes it more difficult to do many of them. Being able to speak Korean will probably not lead to someone getting better private teaching jobs.Furthermore If your school finds out private teaching you can lose your job. Doesn't your contract say as much?
Glad for your successes jackson7 but I don't think they are very applicable to others here.
It there is a problem with the accuracy of this description please say where.
Last edited by GENO123 on Wed May 07, 2014 7:47 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
| Glad for your successes jackson7 but I don't think they are very applicable to others here. |
Yes, because most of us don't have an ABD/PhD in linguistics (nor will we ever). Anyways, over time in Korea, that could (probably will) become worth less and less as (more people get it and) the market gradually declines. |
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jackson7
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Location: Kim Jong Il's Future Fireball
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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GENO -- Privates are very often against the law regarding one's visa, but I haven't had a department head yet that didn't allow me to do them as far as the contract was concerned (a couple heads actually introduced me to lucrative private clients).
30 to 50K is on the extremely low end. Even my colleagues and friends that don't speak Korean get 60-80K for anything from book editing to basic conversation (free talking classes for upkeep of a client's already native-like English, which generally requires zero prep time).
WT -- Is it time to connect this thread to your doomsday narrative regarding the ESL industry in Korea, and perhaps the world, in general? As I've mentioned the fact that many of my friends and colleagues speak advanced Korean, it may be time to break into the old song and dance about it taking endless amounts of time to learn, and that you've never met a non-Korean who could speak at above a beginner level.
I do apologize for being snarky. We all have our pet topics to post and push on the forum, and perhaps I've either been ridiculously lucky and naive to have found myself in the situations I have, but there are still A LOT of great opportunities to be happy while saving great money in a career here in Korea in the fields of ESL/EFL and TESOL.
There are threads upon threads filled with posts about the future of the industry and field, but no one knows anything except that in any field, those who stop improving get left behind.
J7 |
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Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| swashbuckler wrote: |
The Korean EFL university circuit..where motivation goes to die and how much time one spends away from the job becomes a measurement of success |
To me, that last statement is indicative of the relatively recent idea that your job should be what you love, that somehow we can align our loves in this life with sufficient income and our jobs define us as people.
Well, sorry. International multi-millionaire rock star was not hiring in my town so I got a job that pays the bills and allows me to do what I love in my free time instead. The more free time the better, as it allows me to do more of what I love. Unfortunately what I want to spend my time doing isn't lucrative. What I can do is find employment that I enjoy enough to tolerate and that also allows me to do what I want to do in life.
To me, this "Do what you love! You can be anything!" BS is really upper-middle class snobbery. Some of us have bills to pay and can't go to 14 years of post-secondary school to pursue our "dreams". Besides, how do you know these people aren't using their free times to write books, volunteer with the needy, raise their children properly, complete higher education, or just travel the world and enjoy themselves? Who are you to judge what defines success in other people's lives? Very judgmental. And if you think foreign teachers in Korea are the only people in the world who want to maximize their vacation, I'd like to introduce you to about 7 billion people who probably have the same goal. |
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swashbuckler
Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 11:57 pm Post subject: Re: P |
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| jackson7 wrote: |
| swashbuckler wrote: |
| jackson7 wrote: |
The whole gang's here! Mention unis and they shall come...
J7 |
sorry buddy, but I'm also Korean university instructor in my early 30's with job conditions similar to what you've been gloating about but I still could NEVER picture myself doing this same job 20-30 years later for a whole host of different reasons |
No gloating here, friend. Just a reality check for those who think these jobs aren't a sweet deal, especially if you're able to use all that extra time you're afforded to pursue something meaningful and rewarding (time with your kids, write a book, higher education, etc.; you could even take on some very lucrative private lessons at 70-100k/hr if you're qualified and have a lick of Korean ability, if money is your main goal). I could NEVER picture myself in an office, no matter how much I was being paid, but I'm one who actually loves teaching, too. You sound like someone who's not so into it, or you have unfortunately found yourself at an institution with poorer conditions than you perceive.
J7 |
There are clearly other reasons as to why people might choose not to spend the rest of their lives teaching English in Korea besides not 'being into teaching'(which are wrong about, btw. I would have never even made it my current position if I 'wasn't into it')
http://groovekorea.com/article/why-my-family-and-i-must-leave-korea
Anyway, I think the fact that you feel the need to keep coming back here to defend what you're doing for a living is saying more about you |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| So did you change your mind about moving back to Canada or are you still trying to arrange it? |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 1:32 am Post subject: |
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GENO -- Privates are very often against the law regarding one's visa, but I haven't had a department head yet that didn't allow me to do them as far as the contract was concerned (a couple heads actually introduced me to lucrative private clients).
30 to 50K is on the extremely low end. Even my colleagues and friends that don't speak Korean get 60-80K for anything from book editing to basic conversation (free talking classes for upkeep of a client's already native-like English, which generally requires zero prep time). |
Extra teaching outside of ones first job that pays 60 -80 and hour is quite rare . All one would need to do to check the veracity of this would be to go to one of the several internet sites that advertise part time jobs. My bet is you will not see a single job among hundreds that pays that much.Now one could say "that is the internet and so the best jobs are not going to be advertised there " but even in that case one would expect to see a least a handful of exceptional jobs that pay like that. The fact is that there is NOT even one job that is like that. ( I did on the other hand several job that paid as little as 20.000 won an hour. I think that is the low end. )
As for most university contracts there is usually something like the following about A & B :A is the employer and B is the employee . The contract goes on to say B may not work for individuals or organizations without the permission of A. Then later on there is the part that if B violates the provisions of this agreement then B can be terminated. It is not an idle threat either.
I don't know about anyone's life but all I can say is :Jackson7 There are those for whom if what they say is reality then they have no need of fantasy, and those for whom if what they say is fantasy then they have no need of reality.
Last edited by GENO123 on Thu May 08, 2014 3:12 am; edited 3 times in total |
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swashbuckler
Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 2:54 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| So did you change your mind about moving back to Canada or are you still trying to arrange it? |
That isn't me I'm just trying to make the point that some people might have other priorities in life besides five months of vacation. |
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jackson7
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Location: Kim Jong Il's Future Fireball
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
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GENO -- Privates are very often against the law regarding one's visa, but I haven't had a department head yet that didn't allow me to do them as far as the contract was concerned (a couple heads actually introduced me to lucrative private clients).
30 to 50K is on the extremely low end. Even my colleagues and friends that don't speak Korean get 60-80K for anything from book editing to basic conversation (free talking classes for upkeep of a client's already native-like English, which generally requires zero prep time). |
Extra teaching outside of ones first job that pays 60 -80 and hour is quite rare . All one would need to do to check the veracity of this would be to go to one of the several internet sites that advertise part time jobs. My bet is you will not see a single job among hundreds that pays that much.Now one could say "that is the internet and so the best jobs are not going to be advertised there " but even in that case one would expect to see a least a handful of exceptional jobs that pay like that. The fact is that there is NOT even one job that is like that. ( I did on the other hand several job that paid as little as 20.000 won an hour. I think that is the low end. )
As for most university contracts there is usually something like the following about A & B :A is the employer and B is the employee . The contract goes on to say B may not work for individuals or organizations without the permission of A. Then later on there is the part that if B violates the provisions of this agreement then B can be terminated. It is not an idle threat either.
I don't know about anyone's life but all I can say is :Jackson7 There are those for whom if what they say is reality then they have no need of fantasy, and those for whom if what they say is fantasy then they have no need of reality. |
GENO -- Regarding permission and contracts: I meant exactly that when I wrote that I haven't had a department that disallowed its employees from doing so. It was in the contract that we couldn't teach outside classes without such permission, but permission was always granted.
Looking on websites in order to verify the existence or non-exisence of positions? C'mon. Just as the best jobs aren't often advertised openly, the best-paying privates aren't either. This is definitely where speaking Korean helps you network and land these opportunities.
Swash -- Again man, I have no need to defend what I'm doing in the least, but when you come out posting garbage about people gloating about this or that, you're asking for a response. While this site often devolves into flame wars and bickering, it can often serve as a source of quality information for prospective teachers.
Whether people might want something other than a low workload or long vacations isn't relative to the point that posters have tried to make: these positions do in fact offer long vacations with good benefits and pay relative to the hours worked.
J7 |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2014 9:22 am Post subject: |
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After all deductions and after taking 300 for housing :between 2.2 and 2.7 M is take home.I think those numbers are about right.I don't think it is a matter of contact hours - at all - rather it is all about the total amount of work and trouble compared to pay. Since the salary is what it is, many have to work an additional two months just to get by. 2.2 to 2.7 that is the life style . Forget vacations in Europe I could care less about that. . Try paying off a student loan or supporting a family on 2.2 to 2.7 M won a month.
Korean university jobs are something akin to a pyramid scheme. |
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