Korean Job Discussion Forums

[sevitzky]

Hey guys & gals who have taught at Uni:

What has been your experience with the Unversity's position on teaching privates, especially on a residency visa (I have F-6)

I am hammering out a contract right now with a University. I don't have the normal long summer and winter breaks. I intend to teach privates legally by registering at the Ministry of Education and the local Tax man. I am on an F-6.

The contract I was given forbids me to take on outside employment.

I am counter-proposing a clause that specifically allows outside employment which:
-Doesn't interfere with my duties
-Doesn't appropriate, use, or market the University name or my position
-Is fully in accordance with Korean Labor laws.

I am specifically wondering what the "normal stance" is for most universities?

"Reason" "Logic" "Fairness" "Parity" & "Institutional Norms" are all completely flouted here, of course, as one quickly learns. But it doesn't mean those concepts are left out of debates, so I am also wondering:
What approaches / lines of reasoning have you guys used to get what you want out of this issue?

(Of course I would rather tell them to get a clue, but that's hardly gentlemanly or effective, right?)

[nicwr2002]

I'm sure that clause is meant for the E-2 visa people. Just let them know you are on a F series visa and are allowed to work at other places legally.

[sigmundsmith]

I'm not sure whether if you are on an E visa of an F visa that it matters. If the university stipulates in the contract that you aren't allowed to work outside (whether an established company or for yourself legally) then that maybe grounds for dismissal or not offering a contract renewal.

My previous university stated in the contract that they would give us permission (documents for immigration) to work outside of the university as long as it doesn't interfere with our duties.

I have heard of a university in Seoul that allows their foreign staff to work up to 6 hours a week outside (half their normal weekly schedule).

Of course, there is no stipulation for Korean academic teaching staff regarding outside work.

[Hyeon In]

[meangradin]

a few of my f-5/6 visa friends work at a university that has the same stipulation, but the univeristy actually enforces the policy by changing teaching schedules so teachers can't maintain a consistent schedule, thus can't build up students easily.

[Stan Rogers]

I just laugh at all these F visa people who think the visa is a licence to work under the table and not pay any income tax on the privates they teach.

[sevitzky]

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

I've heard a lot of different things, now, having reached out to my professional network, as well.

I've had friends/colleagues who had "non-compete" clauses, but not forbidding all outside work. (This makes sense / obvious)

I've had friends/colleagues who had "permission required" clauses, having worked at mission-based organizations. (This makes sense where public behavior reflects directly on an organization's public lobby.)

I've had friends/colleagues who had "no outside work" clauses, and chose to make their own decisions...

I already have some work lined up which I agreed to, before I signed my contract, so I'll be taking that, and they have been advised. (This is not teaching-related, by the way.)

Regarding the "illegal tutoring" option: being an optimistic westerner, I'm all for Rule of Law. I'm on my F-6 legally, I obtained my degrees legally, Korea has an legitimate need for my skills as a teacher, and I am legitimately qualified to provide it. I am happy to register at MOE and the Tax office. I'm not interested in any sort of black market! (believe it or not)

Knowing that it's not a gov't mandate or completely standard at Uni's is good background to have. (And by the way, Hyeon In,) I AM hammering out a contract, seeing as we have modified certain terms already.

To make this useful to readers in a more general sense, I highly recommend (everyone) reading "Getting to Yes" by Ury Fischer and/or "What Color Is Your Parachute." This is a job market and there is ALWAYS leeway for discussion on a contract. Brinksmanship (walking away or going illegal) is so often resorted to, but it really doesn't have to be. Patient discussions can wear through peoples' bullshit more often than you think. Not always, but even if you lose, it's good practice and you set up expectations, which is actually the most important thing. It's on the basis of those expectations (how you conduct yourself in during a mildly adversarial situation, showing respect and grace during disagreements) which often determines the day-to-day, which is just as important as that piece of paper which gets filed away somewhere.

People say contracts mean nothing in Korea... whatever man!! They mean nothing in the west, when it comes to the day-to-day!! This ain't M&A's! How many times have you gone to court over an employment contract? Few of us ever deal with numbers that justify legal counsel. So where does that leave you? The contract negotiation is part of a discussion about expectations.

If they went through an interview process and they want you, you have leverage. Never forget it!

I'm not saying that I will win this particular battle. But I will definitely use it to accrue a position which I can use later.

Anyway, My $0.02. I'll try to report back on the results.

[nicwr2002]

[edwardcatflap]

[Stan Rogers]

I'm just questioning how many of these F visa people actually go to the tax office and register their privates. I'm guessing next to 0.

[sevitzky]

I got the provision changed in the contract. I kept the conversation focused on our mutual interests. They have a happy employee and I have what I need and a good sense of how they negotiate.

[tob55]

[sevitzky]

Yup! I totally agree. Stay above board, keep it real, avoid the slippery slope!

As soon as you start doing things illegally, you give all this power away to the people you are dealing with. You become susceptible to coercion and blackmail. You rule yourself out from working with organizations that run background checks. For people building overseas experience that could come in very valuable in any number of professions, this is patently stupid.

Hey, young folks - don't mess up your future!

[The Cosmic Hum]